31 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Hmm, without people of color till the Marshalls & the Burells, right? 

I think Billy Cooper and Dana Kramer were around in the 90s after the Edwardses and Lawrences left -- oh, and of course Darryl Beckett was the person Jamie hired instead of Kelsey, provoking her sexual discrimination lawsuit. But all are categorized as "minor" on the AWHP. 

I was just thinking it would have been an idea for some of the new black characters to be related to or recasts of existing characters with connections in Bay City. Thomasina could have had half siblings. There could have been other Binghams or Morgans or even Todds. Grant Perry could have grown up! 

1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

I was just thinking it would have been an idea for some of the new black characters to be related to or recasts of existing characters with connections in Bay City. Thomasina could have had half siblings. There could have been other Binghams or Morgans or even Todds. Grant Perry could have grown up! 

Great idea!!! 

1 hour ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Well, not totally, no. She had a mandate to cut the size of the cast & make it younger. She started out to kill Donna & Tom Freeman found out & got Eddie & fans mobilized to campaign against it & it was one of those rare fan campaigns that prevailed. We saved Donna. But, then she had to find someone else "big" to kill & she ended up putting it to that focus group to decide between Frankie & Paulina. And, also by that time she needed salary to cover RKK, also. She probably would have killed her even if she hadn't needed money for RKK. She had a goal of cutting the size of the cast & she was a demon when she had a goal! I believe she cut 11 people & only hired on maybe 3 - RKK & Tito & Remy ... oh, and Sergei, so that's 4. I guess she only "netted" 7. 

Tito, Remy and Sergei were under later producers (Savitz and maybe Goutman for Sergei). I shouldn't blame RKK entirely but it's so similar to what she did with firing a longtime cast members just as she was bringing Deas, Walker, etc. in.

1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

In the (justifiably) otherwise derided Jacker era, it was kind of exciting to have an assortment of black characters who weren't all in one family. After Henrietta and Roy disappeared we had only Quinn and Thomasina (and Lily, briefly) and they brought in Carter and Grant Todd as the only romantic options for them for a year or two. Then all of the Todds were written out and the Edwardses brought in. And after Quinn died they had a few Lawrences, and then they didn't really have a black family again until the Burrells I think. 

It's a shame the attempt at putting a stronger black presence on the show didn't really go anywhere, although it still seemed like the show tried to some degree until about 1990. Then you don't have much of anything, aside from Dana appearances, until Marshall, but that never went anywhere. The most successful character since Reuben (they could have done a lot more with Reuben) was probably Chris Madison. The Burrells were a good idea, but they did a lousy job with Toni's rape story and with making viewers care about the family (weren't there plans for some long lost son that were dropped after Malone left?). Frankly if the show hadn't been so close to death I don't think Toni would have even lasted. I'm glad she did so the show could end with at least a hint of diversity, and a happy couple in Chris and Toni. 

Edited September 3, 20232 yr by DRW50

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

Tito, Remy and Sergei were under later producers (Savitz and maybe Goutman for Sergei). I shouldn't blame RKK entirely but it's so similar to what she did with firing a longtime cast members just as she was bringing Deas, Walker, etc. in.

Well, she did say that some jelly beans are very expensive & you have to sell enough jelly beans, yadda yadda. Wink Wink RKK wanted bucks. 

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

They were getting rid of most of the people who had been there for years, likely for budget and to chase youth. She was another casualty. I guess she died because they didn't consider her important enough to leave alive.

The biggest blunder AW ever committed was in Spring 1986 when someone approved that the character of Sally Frame should die.  Granted Taylor Miller was not the best  Sally, TPTB could have had Sally leave town for awhile and then come back as a recast.  The “popular” Sally Mary Page Keller had some success in Hollywood in the late 80s, but AW probably could have coaxed her back to the show in the 90s.  A lot of the stories given to the character of Vicky that dominated the show in the 90s could have been given to the character of Sally.  Also, killing Sally guaranteed that her mother, Alice, was not needed on the show- eliminating the important Matthews/Frame connection.

33 minutes ago, watson71 said:

The biggest blunder AW ever committed was in Spring 1986 when someone approved that the character of Sally Frame should die.  Granted Taylor Miller was not the best  Sally, TPTB could have had Sally leave town for awhile and then come back as a recast.  The “popular” Sally Mary Page Keller had some success in Hollywood in the late 80s, but AW probably could have coaxed her back to the show in the 90s.  A lot of the stories given to the character of Vicky that dominated the show in the 90s could have been given to the character of Sally.  Also, killing Sally guaranteed that her mother, Alice, was not needed on the show- eliminating the important Matthews/Frame connection.

I agree it was a bad choice - they got no real story from it, as I assume they knew Catlin was also leaving. They should have just had the characters leave town together. The show seemed to have no long-term planning by this time.

All these blunders seem to be all part of an even bigger problem that AW had post-Lemay/Rauch.

There was never a lot of investment in some characters. So many characters were put through so much and then a new writer/producer came on, they either completely changed them or sent them packing. 

1 minute ago, AbcNbc247 said:

All these blunders seem to be all part of an even bigger problem that AW had post-Lemay/Rauch.

There was never a lot of investment in some characters. So many characters were put through so much and then a new writer/producer came on, they either completely changed them or sent them packing. 

Agreed.  In the 20-year post Lemay/Rauch era, AW never hired a well-known head-writer with a history of success, who would have had the creativity and gravitas to grab the bull by the horns and make the show a successful soap opera again.  I'm talking about a head-writer like Nixon, Bell, Marland, Phillips, or Labine.  I realize some of those writers were not available to work at AW, but just imagine what any of them could have done with the show -- especially if they had a very good executive producer working in tandem!  To AW's credit, they did briefly hire Michael Malone who had great success at OLTL, but for some reason his work at AW was a complete flop.  I don't understand why he was not successful, but the things he tried to do just didn't seem a good fit for Another World.  It has been suggested by others that Malone was most successful with he had a good writing partner, so perhaps the lack of a partner contributed to his failure.  Or perhaps there was not a good fit between Malone and the executive producer.   But I can just imagine what Douglas Marland would have done at AW.  Too bad Marland didn't come to AW directly after Lemay!  

1 hour ago, Neil Johnson said:

Agreed.  In the 20-year post Lemay/Rauch era, AW never hired a well-known head-writer with a history of success, who would have had the creativity and gravitas to grab the bull by the horns and make the show a successful soap opera again.  I'm talking about a head-writer like Nixon, Bell, Marland, Phillips, or Labine.  I realize some of those writers were not available to work at AW, but just imagine what any of them could have done with the show -- especially if they had a very good executive producer working in tandem!  To AW's credit, they did briefly hire Michael Malone who had great success at OLTL, but for some reason his work at AW was a complete flop.  I don't understand why he was not successful, but the things he tried to do just didn't seem a good fit for Another World.  It has been suggested by others that Malone was most successful with he had a good writing partner, so perhaps the lack of a partner contributed to his failure.  Or perhaps there was not a good fit between Malone and the executive producer.   But I can just imagine what Douglas Marland would have done at AW.  Too bad Marland didn't come to AW directly after Lemay!  

I have been very critical of Michael Malone's AW 6 month tenure. One thing I found out tempered that somewhat. Apparently everything he pitched got shot down. (That happened to Labine at GL with Rauch.) When that happens it is a sure bet you have an ineffectual tenure. It is an absolute fact that P&G and the Dobsons were on board with them coming to AW in 1993 but that NBC blocked it. So even when they, meaning P&G, were ready to do the right thing, it didn't work out. And, it is known that as early as Swajeski's tenure NBC wanted AW off the air so a part of P&G's time & energy constantly went to fighting to keep the show on the air. If it sounds like I am an apologist for P&G, in a way, I am. 

But I do also believe that Malone was only VERY successful once & that was when he & Josh Griffith were co-HWs *and* had Linda Gottlieb as EP. I think all 3 of them were required for that magic to happen. Often I find people forget about Gottlieb. 

Part of the problem with Michael Malone was that he was working with Charlotte Savitz as EP.  She did so much damage to the show probably under the direction of NBC.  The whole Vicky/Bobby Reno- Shane Roberts story was a convoluted mess.  Even brining back John Aprea as a new character didn’t even work.  They made Alexander so sinister, his relationship with Felicia didn’t even work.  The only thing Malone did right was Victoria Wyndham’s 25th anniversary episode.

1 hour ago, watson71 said:

Part of the problem with Michael Malone was that he was working with Charlotte Savitz as EP.  She did so much damage to the show probably under the direction of NBC.  The whole Vicky/Bobby Reno- Shane Roberts story was a convoluted mess.  Even brining back John Aprea as a new character didn’t even work.  They made Alexander so sinister, his relationship with Felicia didn’t even work.  The only thing Malone did right was Victoria Wyndham’s 25th anniversary episode.

And he had it in his head that Jake was this debonair Cary Grant type & he changed Jake! Jake was blue collar, grew up rough, always defensive, had a chip on his shoulder that defined him. Savitz fired almost as many people as Jill did! You are right that she was NBC's pick. She was so hated by the online fans that she apparently got death threats & took them seriously & hired a bodyguard for the annual fan luncheon. 

When was it that they moved the swing set from PA to Bay City? 

Edited September 3, 20232 yr by Donna L. Bridges
combine 2 posts

45 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

When was it that they moved the swing set from PA to Bay City? 

What do you mean by "swing set"?  I don't understand this question.  Sorry.  

1 hour ago, Neil Johnson said:

What do you mean by "swing set"?  I don't understand this question.  Sorry.  

There was a swing set on the playground in Lassiter, PA that Vicky & Jake would go to, as a special place where they would go when things were awful. And in an incredibly stupid move the show had them move it to Bay City. 

3 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

There was a swing set on the playground in Lassiter, PA that Vicky & Jake would go to, as a special place where they would go when things were awful. And in an incredibly stupid move the show had them move it to Bay City. 

Ahh, okay.  I sort of remember that.  Also -- around the same time, wasn't there a tree with their names carved into it that also miraculously moved from Lassiter to Bay City??

Reminds me of the Frame farm which unexplainably relocated from Chadwell, Oklahoma to Bay City around 1987-88.  Jeeze-Louise!  

Edited September 3, 20232 yr by Neil Johnson

@Neil Johnson  LOL! Oh, yes, the OK farm "movement", so absurd.