Members Khan Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yeah, but if you're running a show, that's when you're supposed to go to bat for that actor, with all the statistical data you can muster to back up your claims. But, I forget, network execs these days are like Sonny Corinthos, holding guns to everyone's heads and daring them not to blink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 Which was my earlier point. It's also about interpretation. You, as an educated person, hear "Why don't you put this couple back together? Why keep them unhappy for so long?", and you know they, the viewer, are on the hook. That's the point of the story - the romance. The longing. A network exec hears that, comes in, and says "QUick! Kill the story! Put them back together in the next three shows or else!" There's a big difference. (Wow - I had to go back to all this old stuff to figure out what I was even talking about in this thread. What's with the bumping?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 True, but shouldn't someone -- like, say, the head writer -- explain to that execs the difference, and why? Or am I asking too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 Sure - but trust me. The execs don't want to hear that kind of backtalk. It really does boil down to being that inane. Like a playground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 I loved Connor and Evan. I never had a problem believing Evan liked women, I just thought he was too self-involved to genuinely like anyone. I liked their very believable sibling relationship and I thought Connor was one of the classic women on soaps who was attractive, not a knockout, intelligent in the business world but flawed in her personal life. She was very easy to relate to, which is probably one of the reasons there was such a huge fan backlash when she was fired. What I enjoyed so much about the takeover story was that it wasn't as simple as these siblings coming out of nowhere and knocking Lucinda out. Lucinda's own very complicated relationships with the people on the board did her in. There was such a deliciousness about the proxy vote from Lily (wasn't it Lily?) going against her, and then Kirk voted against her, which helped end his marriage to Emily. I grew up with Doug's ATWT and I will never forget it. My strongest memories are Margo pulling the plug on Casey. I will always have that scene in my head. Marland had such strong writing for the Montgomery family, a family which, with the exception of Katie, was squandered or decimated in later years. I also loved Iva. She did become bogged down in her own misery in later years and she lost her spunk, but this woman who had been so hurt by so many people and yet tried and tried to find some type of happiness, played so expertly by Lisa Brown, is the epitome of soap as a woman's medium. There were so many complex women Marland seemed to get, like Lucinda, and after he died the show seemed to lose any idea of how to present them. One thing I've heard some fans say is they never felt like Marland got John Dixon, and that they preferred the more villainous, cut-throat John of earlier years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yeah, and if he had stayed that villainous and cut-throat, he probably wouldn't have lasted as long as he did, too. And this is from someone who liked that John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Soapsuds Posted April 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 Gawd...I loved Connor. I worshipped her...LOL. I miss Allison on the show. Damn Felicia!! Character evolve...look at Lucinda. She isnt the same bitch she once was. I miss the old Lucinda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 Don't get me wrong, I liked Marland's John, I liked his complex friendship with Kim and his relationship with "Andrew", and Lucinda, and his contempt for "Little Miss Seattle". I was just throwing that out there because one of the fans I knew used to say all the time that he missed the more aggressive and nasty John, and he felt that Marland had watered him down too much. I think this was probably part of the necessary transition Marland made from the more histrionic ATWT of the Dobsons, and of the Monty-inspired soap atmosphere of the early 80s, it's just that the change in John stuck out more, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Soapsuds Posted April 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 Haha...good memories of Little Miss Seattle.....gawd I miss the Marland years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveFrame Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 But the thing is that for me Marland just returned John to who he really was. The Dobsons are the one who made John more super-villian. Before them he was a complex character that you loved to hate, but he wasn't super villian. To me the true John Dixon is seen in the 70's and then when Marland restored him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 Steve, I can see that. I think my friend was one of those viewers who was brought in by the Dobsons during their action-adventure/ubervillain era, Stenbeck against John, so that was "their" John. I've never seen the John of the 70s, only read about him, I hope more of that material is available someday. Ruxton, Julie was one of my favorites in the Marland years. He seemed to get her, whereas later on she was shackled to Caleb. I thought they finally found a new chord with her when they brought her brat son Pete in and had her find Damian's ransom money, but then she was dumped by Valente. Probably the right decision, but I wish she hadn't left with Caleb. I also loved Marland's writing for Angel. Such a delicate flower of a character, very easy to mess up. I remember the revelation of her incest and they had the flashbacks of her father molesting her, followed by flashes of Henry Lange being abused as a child. I was so proud for Angel when she found her soulmate in Seth...another very intelligent, complex character who would not have stood a chance without Marland. How did people feel about what he did with Sabrina? I thought that was a missed opportunity. Did he ever write for Marisa Tomei? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 But wasn't John Dixon considered one of the Dobsons biggest successes at ATWT? I would suppose many didn't react negatively to what they did to the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Soapsuds Posted April 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 Valente ruined everything he touched. When he became executive producer is when ATWT started going downhill..IMO. I loved all the characters you mentioned except for Petey. I couldnt stand the character. But I think that was the point. I was never fond of Sabrina. I did like the actress who played her...Julianne Moore and Claire Beckham. Marisa was on in 83. I think Marland came on after she left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 The mid-90's were horrific for the show, but looking back, I'd proabably take it over anything that's on today. It's sad that Goutman and Passanante have made Black and Stern look watchable. I need to go wash myself after saying that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted April 22, 2009 Members Share Posted April 22, 2009 I believe that's more of a testament to Larry Bryggman than anything else. Hell, Dobsons-John, Marland-John...I just want John (and LB) back. ATWT needs him desperately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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