2009: The Directors and Writers Thread

[MarkH]

I have a life outside of SON, unfortunately

Even if OLTL has problems now, we're all smart enough to assign a reasonable proportion of blame to RC, right? If ever a network interfered with its soaps, it would seem to be ABC.

Honestly, because I seem to have a problem getting clear communication with Sylph, I was okay with him choosing not to engage.

But you perfectly convey why I am so ardently rooting for Casiello. For a time, he bridged the divide between "them" and "us", and showed a genuine affection for "us". Why wouldn't we root for that? Why wouldn't we? I'm incredulous that anyone would wish him anything but stellar success and contentment.

(Actually, I'm incredulous that anyone would wish anybody anything less than that).

[brimike]

Yeah, I never understood wishing ill will on anyone. There have been numerous writers I think are toxic at various shows over the years, but there's a venom some people have towards these writers and EP's that goes a bit far.

As for the Casiello thing, that answer is easy. I actually already posted this same response a while ago in this very thread, but I'm too lazy now to go back and look for it, so forgive me for repeating myself. LOL! A large segment of online fans built an unnecessary pedestal for him after the Days firings, and word got out that he had a blog, that somehow he would be some kind of daytime savior if he ever got hired at a show again. I don't think he did this - he was always very clear that he was just one writer, who happened to have a blog. And from what he's written, it's clear a lot of other writers who don't have blogs feel the same frustrations with what's happened to the genre that he does. He just happens to be the only one who shared them. The down side to that is a lot of the online masses raised him up to a standard that is completely ridiculous. He's just a middle-management writer. Sometimes he delivers great stuff, sometimes he delivers crap, just like every other soap writer in the business. But when people like Nelson Branco actually waste space in their column for TV Guide about how Casiello should head write a show just because he has a blog (which is completely preposterous, and laughable), and a portion of the online fans go ga-ga when they found out he's been hired somewhere (like he can suddenly and magically right every wrong on their show), of course there are going to be more knowledgeable fans (like Sylph, or Ruckston Hills, or R Sinclair) who are going to step in and say "He's not all that." And they should. Because he's not all that. I give those guys a lot of grief about their negativity (all in good fun), but in this situation, they're right. He'll continue having successes, and continue having failures, just like anybody else in the business. But he shouldn't receive special treatment along the way, or a free pass when he delivers a lousy episode, just because he happens to have reached out and made contact with the fans. And I think that's where the backlash stems from - the "Daytime Messiah" image that got thrust on him, same as the one thrust on Carlivati when he became head writer and the fans found out that he was also a long-time soap fan who watched every day growing up. The online viewers both latched on to these guys because it gave them hope that people who ran home from school every day to watch "their soap" (just like we did) were now writing. We're all so desperate for the next Marland or LeMay or Nixon, that many online viewers will immediately give someone that crown, because it gives them hope. It happened with Sheffer his first year at ATWT too.

So even though I give post-ers like Sylph crap for "bursting balloons", I do think it's warranted in this case. We all like to categorize the people behind the scenes as "heroes" (MAB for many on here, Claire Labine, Nancy Curlee) and "villains" (Megan McT, Higley), just like the characters they write. And considering how dark and depressing the writing situation on daytime has been, it's really easy for fans to convince themselves that there has to be that one person out there who can "save their show". When the truth is, it's not going to happen. The Nancy Curlee interview Toups, Alvin and Dan did proved that - Nancy could never write her stories in this climate, and she knows that, which is why she left the business. Those days are over. Casiello isn't going to save anything. And he's no soap savior. He's just an average writer, with good days and bad days. And for those people who understand that (like Sylph and R Sinclair and RH), it's got to be incredibly frustrating to sit back and witness the lovefest.

[Sylph]

Sometimes it's best to miss the party.

I care. "The second time you see me do this?" Why, it's wrong if I said I don't like someone replying late to something? It's wasn't anything mean or whatever, just an observation. But I already know you passionately hate everything I say, follow me around, see me writing "outrageous" and "condescending" posts and then after 20 or so posts like that you wait for someone to reply to me with a "good response" and congratulate them for it. Another SON formula. There is an Ignore button, Toups, you know it well. You seem like a disciplined person, if you don't want to use it, why don't you just skip what I have to say. And why do you always focus on the negative? Never mind, I don't actually want to know.

You shouldn't. Because no one cares, although people are probably going to have a great time reading this "feud".

Ask Alvin.

You are allowed to change the opinion, no one is saying you're not. I am saying people pretended to like it even if they didn't. Furthermore, I am allowed to be wrong, too and perhaps my theory will turn out to be untrue. So what. I am not upset, I don't see why it's upsetting you.

I don't want to say it in that thread, this discussion somehow shifted from Hogan into Y&R critique. God will know how, but it did. It's not so much the minority thing, it's that people know what I think and since I've been criticised for being to negative and ruining other people's experiences, I just want to spare them and myself the trouble.

True.

No, I'm not. 'Cause it's something I know and it's not for public.

Yes, correct. I hate a show I don't watch.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

It was only my opinion, I'm not a fan of Monty's vision for soaps, and everyone knows I hate supercouples and action/adventure stories on soaps.

[Sylph]

Apart from Shakespeare, there was a guy who in 1868 wrote a book called The Thirty-six Dramatic Situations. Yes, you are correct: according to him there are no 7, there are 36 stories altogether. His name was Georges Polti.

P. S. Toups, you can reply, and I'm sure you will, to my last post, but I'm not going to read it. And thus, won't reply.

Yes. She tried to do the film thing in daytime. It might have helped the ratings temporarily, but then everyone copied it... And there they went...

[Sylph]

Brimike... That was one of the best posts SON has ever seen.

But apart from that whole Messiah Syndrome, I have another problem with Tom Casiello. And before I state what it is, no, I do not hate Tom Casiello, if anyone was wondering. One, I avoid negative emotions in my life and two, I cannot hate someone I've never met.

The problem is that I find him too saccharine and sweet. And yes, you've guessed it, sometimes that seems fake to me /that overwhelming niceness and optimism of his). I am delusional if I think he's going to be criticising his boss Hogan, I know, but perhaps he can find another way to do it. What was it that he was talking about on his blog or in an interview, I'm forgetting, somehow how Hogan is a very detailed writer who writes thousands of pages of bibles with such ease... Something like that it went. Never mind that those bibles aren't all that (people hated Hogan's Days!), to put it that way, what matters is that it's thousands of pages. Bill Bell managed to put three years worth of stories into 75-page story synopsis. Go figure.

There's a whole lot of other sugary episodes where Tom seems like a little cheery sprite dancing around and trying desperately being positive when there is nothing wrong in being not negative but — realistic. No need to put pink paint onto something.

[Toups]

It's all about the attitude, like if someone doesn't reply to you right away is somehow a mark (no pun intended) on them.

Well first of all, I can't put anyone on Ignore. LOL The only time I focus on your negativity is when you're "outrageous" and "condescending".......like what you said below ("pretended").

I follow you around? Okay. LOL Well we do have the same interest in topics....so......

Ahh...and here it is...CLASSIC SYLPH with his know-it-all comments, thinking he knows better than everyone else, and thinks he knows our thoughts and feelings better than ourselves. So, dude, what else are we "pretending" or how else are people acting "fake". Please share your infinite wisdom with us lowly peasants who can't come up with a true thought or emotion.

Please. Ruining what experience? Of posting on message board? I honestly don't believe you can give a detailed (stuff that's happening in the episodes) negative post about a show. I rarely see them coming from you. I've only seen general negative comments like so and so is a bad writer, or this show is so bad because it's not evolving, it's too repetitive, they're just repeating history. Come on, I challenge you to join us the discussion threads and talk with us about what's happening in the episodes.

Well, at least you admit you're a wuss. I guess that's something.

Right....it's something you "know". GMAB, man.

Yeah, disliking something is one thing, but Sylph said it was a "fatal blow" ....... how was it fatal if GH is still on the air?

[Sylph]

[Aback]

Well, Toups is one of the admins here. So I suppose one of his duties is to monitor the board to make sure everything goes smoothly. Especially among posters. So he can't possibly 'Ignore' anyone. You, on the other hand... If you have grown so tired of the 'SON formulas', why don't you just 'ignore' this board and find another place to post? I'm just sayin'...

I can't really remember, but I seem to recall you had a Brad Bell avatar once. It was my understanding you liked him and praised his work. I might be wrong on that, I didn't really pay attention. But if that is the case... Brad has had the same 4 people on the front burner for 20+ years. Yet he gets a free pass? Why do you have this problem just with Y&R, and not with B&B?

I don't know if Y&R is a synphony (sp?), if it's perfect, if it has good dialogue or not. What I do know is - I tune in everyday. And I actually look forward to it. For the first time in 7 years. That must mean something.

[Sylph]

No, you're not just "sayin’"!

I find the formulas and their each appearance hysterical and fun.

I do have a problem with B&B and those four people. They are all done and B&B is a dreck these days. But we weren't talking about B&B and that is why B&B wasn't mentioned; we've told the B&B tale fifty times already during the past two months. Everyone agrees B&B is terrible and there's no drama, no conflict, no clash of opinions there so it's not fun.

And Hotness... Never mind.

[R Sinclair]

Nevermind. I'll come back when this drama isn't so close.

[Adam]

No kidding eh, this thread had become quite ridiculous this weekend. Somehow it went from being discussions about Directors and Writers, to catty, dramatic fights between multiple competing views on the genre.... perhaps this should have been a separate thread, no?

[MarkH]

As someone who got dragged into the fray, I apologize for letting myself get into it.

But this meta-level commentary seems a little like those two guys in the balcony (Statler & Waldorf) on The Muppets, no?

[Adam]

Touche. I'll go back to being a frustrated observer I am sure, like all arcs here on SON, this one will also play its self out.

[jcar03]