2 hours ago, Vee said:

I think the tide has turned in some ways. The problem is dragging a lot of the party machinery along with it when a lot of them simply want to sit back, cruise to next November and do as little as possible and expect reward for being the minority party. (A common feature in the Senate across party lines for decades, I will grant you.)

I credit the base and an assortment of good candidates with last Tuesday. The enthusiasm and dedication are there among the Democratic base and rank and file, despite every end of the far political spectrum and the media shítting on 'the libs' and 'wine moms' for a decade. Between Tuesday and No Kings protests, you had many of those shítheels acknowledging the supposed 'cringelibs' were getting it done.

I credit a lot of the ossified elements of the party leadership and the Senate with Sunday, which turned around and shít on that energy and dedication. They then still expect all us to once again 'move forward,' turn the page and still be good little voters who will give more money and time to these groups who spam our inboxes and not complain about bigger matters or demand better action. I have held my nose and gone along with that thinking for over 25 years, and I'm done. And there's a lot of normie Dems who feel that way, who voted last Tuesday, who are out on those streets, who donate and organize.

Two different elements of the party, and one has to change or go.

At this point it's time for the progressives to take charge. I never thought I'd ever say this, especially considering that I have grown in a family that has taught me that socialism is evil, wrong and bad and is the root of everything that's wrong with society, but honestly the events of the last 10+ months have made me change my mind. This country has completely gone downhill. People are struggling to keep food on the table. People my age are juggling multiple jobs and still can't own an affordable home. Worse yet they work long hours for abysmal pay and that hasn't changed in years. If that doesn't prove how dire things are, then I don't know what does. 

It's pretty obvious at this point that capitalism isn't working and hasn't been working for a very long time. We need a long term viable solution in order to get our country back into working shape. And if socialism is the solution that we need to rely on, then so be it. I don't know if it's truly going to work in this country but at this point I'll try anything , because otherwise the alternative is spending the rest of our lives living in an authoritarian fascist police state. And I definitely don't want that. 

We're not going to have a socialist state. That's not realistic and most of the public don't want it. They do like some of those shared values, and most of all they just want a better class of fighting Democrats. If we can avoid running dirtbags, anarchists, closet Nazis, general idiots or any favorites of the Intercept while doing so that would be ideal.

Edited November 12Nov 12 by Vee

28 minutes ago, Vee said:

We're not going to have a socialist state. That's not realistic and most of the public don't want it. They do like some of those shared values, and most of all they just want a better class of fighting Democrats. If we can avoid running dirtbags, anarchists, closet Nazis, general idiots or any favorites of the Intercept while doing so that would be ideal.

Well, maybe you're right, but the system we have in place now clearly isn't working and we need someplace better. And I feel like the only way we're ever going to get that at this point is if the country completely falls apart and millions of people end up dying from a combination of starvation, disease and warfare. This country will never learn. 

27 minutes ago, MissPhoenixGirl92 said:

the country completely falls apart and millions of people end up dying from a combination of starvation, disease and warfare.

That's not going to happen. Any more than it already has.

13 hours ago, MissPhoenixGirl92 said:

At this point it's time for the progressives to take charge.

Black voters aren't going to let that happen and frankly progressives are incapable of governing. Look at the Squad. What have they managed to accomplish in all these years? Nothing. Governing requires coalition building and the left has shown they are incapable of that.

I'm still waiting for people to realize that Democrats can't save this country from white voters no matter how much you scream at them. Folks need to turn that energy on their friends and family but they are to afraid to so they pass the time screaming at Black people and Jews online. This is why Black people are sitting this out.

 

16 hours ago, Khan said:

Frankly, I don't look at last Tuesday's election results as proof that the proverbial tide has turned or is turning for the Democrats.  I know some in the media (begrudgingly) want to say that it is turning for the Democrats, but I think we all have been down this road enough times to know better. 

Now, if the next 2-3 election cycles result in even more major losses for the Republicans....

So you will dismiss good news and concrete results in favor of freaking out and vibes?

Edited November 12Nov 12 by marceline

4 hours ago, marceline said:

So you will dismiss good news and concrete results in favor of freaking out and vibes?

Who's freaking out?  I'm not freaking out about last Tuesday's election results.  I think it's important that the Democratic Party continue making strides, especially in state and local races.  But I simply don't trust my country anymore when it comes to elections, because pendulums always have a way of swinging back.  (Look no further than the past two presidential elections to understand what I'm talking about, lol).  

Most voters in this country, I have realized, don't want the kind of stability and common sense that comes when you elect reasonably sane people into office.  They SAY they do, but then they freak out at the thought of drag queens named Sally Goodhead reading "If You Give a Pig a Pancake" to their kids at school.  So, instead, they'll accept the kind of circus that only a conservative, neo-fascist government can give them; because, even though it's a given that they're all incompetent as hell and have no business running an Arby's let alone a nation, on the other hand, at least those fascist s.o.b.'s agree with Brayden and Haylee Jane that God is a white male who has a gun rack in the back seat of his pickup and thinks women should be tied down and forced to make babies all day long; and that all the "illegals" who are taking all our jobs that we didn't want anyway but still! should be rounded up and sent back to New Mexico where they belong.

4 hours ago, marceline said:

Black voters aren't going to let that happen and frankly progressives are incapable of governing. Look at the Squad. What have they managed to accomplish in all these years? Nothing. Governing requires coalition building and the left has shown they are incapable of that.

I'm still waiting for people to realize that Democrats can't save this country from white voters no matter how much you scream at them. Folks need to turn that energy on their friends and family but they are to afraid to so they pass the time screaming at Black people and Jews online. This is why Black people are sitting this out.

Amen, on all counts!

Edited November 12Nov 12 by Khan

13 hours ago, Vee said:

We're not going to have a socialist state. That's not realistic and most of the public don't want it. 

I agree.  Socialism (and communism) don't work any better than capitalism does.  Those who call themselves socialist democrats are just frustrated beat poets who've got nothing better to do.

 

Disgusting MONSTER. 

 

Adelita Grijalva was elected as Democrat congressperson from Arizona back in September. Seven weeks later, today Nov. 12, the Republican speaker finally agreed to her being sworn in to take office.
Video of her being sworn in and then giving a speech
 

 

4 hours ago, Khan said:

I agree.  Socialism (and communism) don't work any better than capitalism does.  Those who call themselves socialist democrats are just frustrated beat poets who've got nothing better to do.

We don't need to fully get rid of democracy. We could possibly have a socialist democracy type of government similar to that of Canada and to a lesser extent England, (except for the whole monarch thing). The Constitution needs a massive upgrade too with amendments codifying abortion, gay and POC in a way that the Supreme Court can't undo it easily regardless of who's in power. It's time to take our power back from the oligarch billionaires, and judging from what happened in New York, I think people are finally fed up and want real change. The question is whether everyone else is going to follow through. People deserve healthcare and a livable wage in order to make a decent living and support their families. But all of that isn't going to happen unless this country goes through some real suffering and pain, unless the people decide to take charge and get rid of the despotic regime, which I'm still not sure that's even going to happen at this rate. 

I honestly don't know what people think the result of releasing the Epstein files will be. Republicans don't care about sexual predation. It's part of GOP/Christian nationalist culture. Nobody is going to go to jail. As for Trump, everybody knows he's a sexual predator, pedophile, and rapist. That didn't stop millions of people from voting for him multiple times.

I just wonder what people think the endgame is.

4 hours ago, marceline said:

I honestly don't know what people think the result of releasing the Epstein files will be. Republicans don't care about sexual predation. It's part of GOP/Christian nationalist culture. Nobody is going to go to jail. As for Trump, everybody knows he's a sexual predator, pedophile, and rapist. That didn't stop millions of people from voting for him multiple times.

I just wonder what people think the endgame is.

I don't think there is anything beyond wanting to make Trump and the GOP squirm on an issue they clearly loathe dealing with. As you said, the cultists will still not change their mind, but it's the only offense the party has. I'm surprised it's even been as effective as it has, to be honest. I imagine that effectiveness is now over. 

4 hours ago, MissPhoenixGirl92 said:

We don't need to fully get rid of democracy. We could possibly have a socialist democracy type of government similar to that of Canada and to a lesser extent England, (except for the whole monarch thing). The Constitution needs a massive upgrade too with amendments codifying abortion, gay and POC in a way that the Supreme Court can't undo it easily regardless of who's in power. It's time to take our power back from the oligarch billionaires, and judging from what happened in New York, I think people are finally fed up and want real change. The question is whether everyone else is going to follow through. People deserve healthcare and a livable wage in order to make a decent living and support their families. But all of that isn't going to happen unless this country goes through some real suffering and pain, unless the people decide to take charge and get rid of the despotic regime, which I'm still not sure that's even going to happen at this rate. 

I am just not sure if it is ever going to happen. And one of the reasons is because many on the left who go on TV and social media to say they want "the revolution" are very privileged. They are trust fund babies. They have huge podcasts. They pose in front of their luxury cars, like that wretched Hasan Piker the press keeps insisting is the way of the future. They want posturing about the evils of capitalism, but they are content with what they have now. Look at Susan Sarandon, who wanted Trump in for the revolution. Where is she now? Doing a play in London. She doesn't give a damn about what people are going through. Why should she? She got what she wanted. 

One of the other reasons it won't happen is because the people on the left who call for this prefer Trump and Republicans. They wrote puff pieces about how funny and tough Trump was for going against the elites. They gushed about how they love all the nicknames Trump has for Mamdani. They promoted him as being sure to save Gaza, unlike Harris, because he wants to be seen as "strong." They berated Democrats for protesting cuts to USAID and the federal government. They can't say enough good things about the likes of Josh Hawley and Tulsi Gabbard, berating Democrats for not voting to confirm her.

In the nonexistent chance socialism ever had any power in this country, they would immediately team up with Tucker Carlson, David Duke, and whoever else they can find. That's one of the reasons many of them have such disgust for black Americans, Jewish Americans, lgbt Americans, etc aside from some tokens who are there to remind us how terrible all the others are. They fantasize about the red-brown future we would have if only "libs" were gone and they could teach a white supremacist sect in Idaho about the power of praxis and mutual aid. 

On 11/11/2025 at 8:12 PM, Vee said:

I think the tide has turned in some ways. The problem is dragging a lot of the party machinery along with it when a lot of them simply want to sit back, cruise to next November and do as little as possible and expect reward for being the minority party. (A common feature in the Senate across party lines for decades, I will grant you.)

I credit the base and an assortment of good candidates with last Tuesday. The enthusiasm and dedication are there among the Democratic base and rank and file, despite every end of the far political spectrum and the media shítting on 'the libs' and 'wine moms' for a decade. Between Tuesday and No Kings protests, you had many of those shítheels acknowledging the supposed 'cringelibs' were getting it done.

I credit a lot of the ossified elements of the party leadership and the Senate with Sunday, which turned around and shít on that energy and dedication. They then still expect all us to once again 'move forward,' turn the page and still be good little voters who will give more money and time to these groups who spam our inboxes and not complain about bigger matters or demand better action. I have held my nose and gone along with that thinking for over 25 years, and I'm done. And there's a lot of normie Dems who feel that way, who voted last Tuesday, who are out on those streets, who donate and organize.

Two different elements of the party, and one has to change or go.

I'm not even sure who in the Senate would be an improvement on Schumer. Pelosi was nudged out in part because people wanted a fresh voice, but Jeffries has not been overly effective. Schumer is not as strong as Pelosi was, and he's also terrible in media hits, but the only real difference I see in Schumer and most of the people who would replace him is he's more open about congeniality instead of putting on a mask.

Spanberger and Sherrill were both from the same wing of the party which many who go on about the evils of Democrats deride, and they spent the whole campaign saying both ladies would lose or barely win (then tried to give credit for their wins to Mamdani).

There are many rank and file Democrats who were disgusted by ending the shutdown, but I don't really know what else could have been done. Trump's poll numbers might go back up now, but they are always going to because the media lives for him and I think the majority of this country is cruel, ignorant and bigoted. The public might go back to supporting Republicans in Congress again, but that was also inevitable.

The ACA is probably dead, which is horrible, but that was also going to happen no matter what. That's what the public wanted. 

The "best" scenario we have on deck is Republicans narrowly losing one or both houses of Congress and a Democrat narrowly winning the White House, then getting blamed for everything, so that Republicans can come back in and finish cementing their permanent stranglehold on power

This is what the public wants. As they love to say, "I voted for this!" I don't see that ever changing. I just hope anyone who can safely leave the country does so while they still can.

Edited November 13Nov 13 by DRW50

38 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Spanberger and Sherrill were both from the same wing of the party which many who go on about the evils of Democrats deride, and they spent the whole campaign saying both ladies would lose or barely win (then tried to give credit for their wins to Mamdani).

The reality is Spanberger, Sherrill and Mamdani all deserve a lot of credit, because that's the big Dem tent for you. I am so far beyond having the time or energy for scoring daily points on the idiots on dirtbag leftist Twitter anymore, or for listening to enablers tell me how hard done by Chuck Schumer or Jeffries are from the ungrateful base who just don't understand their struggles. We don't have time for Sweet Valley High anymore. It's normal people out there tired of this shít. And it's very normal, core Dems of any race and creed sick and tired of current strategy.

A lot of Democratic comms and messaging have been a disaster for years and need a massive overhaul, but so does Dem strategy. The problem is most of the tired strategists the party leadership listens to are regularly having their brains cooked by right-wing Twitter, contemptuous of 'the libs', and so they operate from a center-right viewpoint believing this is permanently 1980-84, a center-right country and that Democrats must always defend or apologize. There were more concessions to squeeze out of the shutdown. Shaheen, Hassan, King, etc. chose none of them because a) many of them are retiring, b) many of them share that viewpoint and c) they prefer the illusion of the genial Senate, and the illusion of continuing to govern, vs. facing the hell we're living in.

Sorry to Angus King, but 'standing up to Donald Trump doesn't work' (a verbatim quote) is not the message a vast majority of Americans sent at the No Kings protests - because the base aside, even idiots who voted for Trump don't like his first year - or the message sent last Tuesday, and it's not a message you can sell in the midterms while ignoring everything he's done to disenfranchised people or immigrants in this country and asking everyone to please turn back to the page of the consultant tipsheet that focuses entirely on egg prices instead. But what does he care? He's not up for years and he got his.

You're right, clawing back the WH or the Senate, serving one term trying to fix horrible shít around the margins then getting ousted again for more fascists is not a solution. It's an endless cycle of this for years now and it leads nowhere. Joe was a good POTUS but he made mistakes on not going after these people harder when the moment was there, and so did Pelosi. They thought the country would just right itself if led by example, and they were wrong. But we're here now, and we have to either live through it, change it, get out or die. I don't feel like dying and I don't want to live through it like this for another decade, nor do I want to leave, so to win it's going to take more than just clawing for the brass ring. It's going to take institutional changes in how the party operates. The base is ready, it's proven that twice in the last couple months. Now the leadership has to be too.

Edited November 13Nov 13 by Vee