The Politics Thread

[GoldenDogs]

How are all these things proof of racism? You are intepreting the words and actions of others and insinuating race into their motives; complete and utter crap. Has anyone stood up and said, "Don't vote for Barack Obama because he is black"? Who has said that? What has Joe Arpaio said to indicate that he dislikes black people? Bachmann wasn't referring to Obama's skin color in that statement... she was referring to Chicago-style politics - unless a history rewrite indicates Al Capone was black. I haven't seen a reference to Obama's middle name is ages! Who in the mainstream right refers to him as "Barack Huseein Obama"? But, wait, isn't that his middle name? We aren't allowed to say it... EVER?

More crap, Juppiter. Weak arguments. You are telling me that Obama could get a nonsensical health care bill passed... but nothing for the economy? That is a laugh riot. It should be noted that the Democratically-controlled Senate has not passed a budget in THREE YEARS. But they rammed through a health care bill... Your argument here is weak, dude. The stimulus was a spending bill... NOT A BUDGET. The government needed a budget, not a spending bill. As far as the notion that Obama should have abstained from all non-budget related legislation... nobody ever said that. Indeed, the government can multi-task. There are two chambers of Congress and the Presidency... three separate entities that CAN work on three different things, bare minimum. Priorities, however, are important. With the economy in shambles following that warmonger, George W., I would have thought that some facet of the Obama Administration could have found time to hammer out a budget... find a way to control spending rather than figure out additional ways to blow the wad. Budget first, Obamacare second. I don't know how things work in other people's houses... but I pay my bills and cover necessities before doing other things.

It is racist to vote for a man based on skin color, PERIOD. Ruling out all other options... not considering domestic or foreign policy... ignoring a person's qualities, skills or abilities and selecting that person based solely on skin color IS, indeed, RACIST. In true liberal fashion, you've made the notion of racism a moving target... it IS racism when you need to be, but it isn't racism when you wish it not to be. That, in and of itself, is the worst kind of racism. It is that notion or idea that fuels affirmative action-style policies and that is why well-meaning affirmative action has evolved into an utter failure that has hurt minorities more than helped them.

[GoldenDogs]

I think the hate amongst the fringe/mainstream left is amongst the worst I have ever seen, period. Largely because that type of hate and intolerance is masked behind this supposed "well-meaning" and "love" for others, but often doing, themselves, precisely what they accuse others of doing.

[thelma42]

No, you're not wrong.

[Ann_SS]

Nope, you are right. All those right wing conservative Christian pastors who constantly preach against Mormonism and call it a cult are all rallying their congregations to vote for Romney.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Ann_SS

[Delia]

From where exactly? I see dislike for Romney's positions, which will hurt the poor and middle class, his sneering elitist attitude, and his willingness to say anything and everything to win, but I do not see the absolute hate for him, his wife, or his family as people. Nobody's questioned his birthplace or his patriotism. And those questioning Romney's religion have mostly been far right conservatives.

Then you have Mitch McConnell the Republican leader of the Senate saying his primary duty is to make sure Obama fails!

For his entire time in office, the right wing has tried repeatedly to portray both Michelle and Barack as racist against white people from the manufactured Shirley Sherrod controversy to Glen Beck's "white culture" comment to the recent unveiling of that "bombshell" speech Obama gave at Hampton where he sounded "too black" that was nearly 6 years old and reported on by the media when it was originally given.

[DRW50]

Anyone who thinks the hate for Romney is anywhere close to the hate for Obama should read up on the disgusting DVD "Dreams of My Real Father," which, among other things, tries to claim that Obama's mother was a porn actress hooked up with a Communist.

[Delia]

Or wander over to WorldNetDaily were they say Obama is actually gay. Plus there is that 2016 movie, though I think the "Dreams..." movie is much worse.

[JaneAusten]

The whole birther issue is about racism. Do folks really believe if Obama's skin color was not black that anyone would have even touched that issue? It's insulting that the President of the United States is forced into a situation where to refute the idiocy of the claim, proof of his birth had to be shown, even knowing he's been a public figure for years, went through a ton of background checks over the years , and was likely again subjected to a more intensive check when he ran for President. And that was all driven by no more than his race, I don't care what anyone says or claims.

And I want those folks who are supporting Romney to tell me what more tax cuts for the rich are going to do. Aren't Bush's tax cuts still in place and I don't see that stimulating any job growth so of course the answer is more cuts for the wealthy. People like Romney who have benefitted from these Bush tax cuts invest their money where? Not in the US it seems.

Edited October 14, 2012 by JaneAusten

[Ann_SS]

From the imagination and delusions of Republicans. Though, it does make sense when you hate everyone who is different from you, you have to assume that they hate you back or else can how you justify the hatred.

[Wales2004]

There are whole lot of things going on in this thread on which I could try to comment but I will just start here because this is part of an argument which is seemingly refuting a racism claim and I don't see how it refutes anything.

The "birther" activity is racist pure and simple. There is no need to pretend otherwise. And to use the argument that people have not brought up his race is weak because it assumes that racists are all overtly racist and not covertly racist. If racists all wandered around out and proud in the open, how many of them would still be as successful as they are being covertly racist in this politically correct environment?

The reason I selected the above quote is because it exemplifies the kind of reaction to "birther" knowledge that

I cannot even believe that an argument against racism is that people would be honest about it. My head might fall off if I started shaking it over that.leaves the door wide open by basically claiming without overtly doing so, that Barack Obama just might be a citizen of some other country and just might not have been born here.

Now I don't know if you would say the same things about all the previous Presidents and Presidential candidates so I'm not going to speculate on your feelings or intent but generally when this is said, it has been phrased that way so that the speaker can say he/she didn't say Barack Obama was not born in America. But the flip side is that he/she didn't say he was.

How do I know where any of them were born other than they said they were born in whatever state? I've never seen any of them provide or be asked to provide evidence of their birthplace until Barack Obama was. John McCain was born in a territory that's no longer but is that a big deal? No. An annexed state is a big deal though because of what Barack Obama looks like and no other reason. It's not even debatable.

His whole name is used by certain Republicans who want to emphasize how foreign and Muslim he is. Unless Fox News uses his middle name, I haven't heard media refer to him by his whole name. I'm pretty sure that when Pat Robertson was still on MSNBC, he would say his whole name and explain how foreign and exotic Barack Obama is.

[Wales2004]

Race is a way of thinking, imo.

Is it racist to vote for someone based on skin color? Yes. I don't even know how that's debatable.

I understand that in America there are a bunch of different exceptions made for black people based on the nation's history but exceptions don't change the facts.

The problem is these discussions where it's pointed out that black people are being racist for voting for Barack Obama without acknowledging that there are racist white people voting against Barack Obama because he's black. Since this is the first major party non-white candidate that people have had an option of voting for then these are pretty exceptional circumstances so I don't even know why anyone would waste time complaining about it.

Why not question the poor people who vote against their interests when they vote Republican merely because of xenophobia and that it's been drilled into their heads by Republican candidates that the Democrats just want to give free money (welfare) to lazy black people who don't want to work? Don't even bother pointing out that there are lazy black people who don't want to work as if they make up the majority of welfare recipients. The majority of welfare recipients are white and let's not pretend that all of them are hardworking people down on their luck. Those people aren't voting on any substantive issues either and they certainly aren't voting to benefit themselves.

So the fingers can be pointed in all directions.

And I'm just going to guess that all this nonsense regarding liberal and conservative Christianity is strictly some American insanity. There's only one type of Christian and that's one that follows the Bible or at least tries to. Everyone else are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Wales2004

[quartermainefan]

I am sick of religion in politics, and that moderator last week should have been ashamed of herself at the end.

"How religious are you and how does your religion impact how you do your job?"

I wish one of them said "none of your business , go [!@#$%^&*] yourself". There is no religion requirement to hold office and she should be ashamed for helping to keep the one there wrongly is. I'd like to see an athiest run for President. I think I would vote for him no matter what his positions were just to give the religious people agita.

[juppiter]

Joe Arpaio keeps saying the birth certificate is a forgery. And obviously it is not overt racism; it is a vast right-wing conspiracy to make Barack Obama "different" from all previous presidents. Which he is different, but it's riding the line so as not to overtly imply that it's because he's black. Instead elected Republican officials and the Republican part of the mainstream media have created the Islam thing and the birther thing as ways to say black without saying black. Dunno, if you watch South Park, but there is an episode where Oprah, Will Smith, etc. move to town. The townspeople say they want the "richers" out, and succeed in getting them out without talking about race the entire episode; at the end Mr. Garrison proclaims, "At least we got rid of those nig--" and it cuts out. It's exactly like that. Of course you're allowed to say his middle name but I don't see people saying "George Walker Bush" or "William Jefferson Clinton" because it sounds weird. Why else would people constantly say Barack Hussein Obama if not to remind people of what his middle name is?

I think it's selective memory on your part to say the health care law was rammed through. It was extremely difficult to get it passed and they ended up having to do a budget maneuver in order to even get the House and Senate to pass the same bills. It's not like they passed Obamacare on day 1 and then ignored the economy for two years. In fact at the time conservatives were even saying the maneuver used to pass Obamacare was illegal -- it was that hard to get ANYTHING passed thru congress at that time. Between the Repugs voting no on everything and filibustering routine bills, it was not an easy time to get bills passed at that time so the "2 years of complete control" is just not true. It had also been 20 years since health care reform was even attempted and it went down in shambles the first time. It was now or never to get any kind of health care legislation enacted and Barack Obama had learned (some of) his lesson from the Hillarycare debacle.

When you say "find a way to control spending rather than figure out additional ways to blow the wad" you're failing to be objective. You have to realize, liberals see increased government spending as a way out of recession. You think the government needs to contain itself even during recession. So there's a fundamental disconnect there. The stimulus was our fiscal policy to contain the recession and achieve recovery. So really, it's not that you don't think Obama did enough for the economy, it's that you think what he did was not the correct solution and made our problems worse.

I'm not making racism a moving target at all. Black people wanting to be represented by one of their own is as valid a reason as any, and causes no harm to the prospects of any white man becoming president. The first black president being railroaded by elected, mainstream Republicans because he "must be a muslim foreigner" is thinly-veiled racism that actively seeks to unite white voters against a foreign entity holding power over them, actively preventing blacks from pursuing further glass ceiling shatterings.

[Ann_SS]

The hatred of the right-wing conservatives on display yet again:

http://www.nytimes.c...ogram.html?_r=0

If only they would admit what they are and not misrepresent themselves as Christians.

Then, there are these bunch of Republican liars and hypocrites who slashed the State Department's budget and are now slinging accusations about lack of security at the consulate in Libya: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/opinion/republicans-have-no-shame.html

Edited October 15, 2012 by Ann_SS

[Wales2004]

My comment is about the part I emphasized in bold. If a person wants to reach a goal badly enough then he/she will go after it no matter what obstacles are placed in the way and no matter who says "no." Barack Obama knew he was headed down rough roads and he pursued the Presidency anyway and that's the difference between a determined person and a person looking for a reason to fail.

Look at all the reasons given today for why Johnny cannot read (short of a real physical or mental disability):

• the textbooks in his school are old, outdated, torn, etc.
  
• he speaks a special language/dialect and should have an ESL class like non-English speaking immigrants
  
• he doesn't have any teachers that look like him
  
• America's slave history has placed him on unequal footing
  

Frederick Douglas is considered one of this nation's great orators and writers and he was actually a slave....so when a nation becomes adept and providing built in excuses for failure before a child even begins this glass ceiling almost becomes the very least of them.

Just imagine if Barack Obama had grown up in one of those households in this country where the parents tell the children all the things they cannot do because they are black growing up in a country full of people who are going to hold them back because they are black. The harm being done to children comes from within and without. One day people will be honest about that and recognize how much damage has been done.

Whenever we see images of what hunger and poverty look like, they tend to be photos of poor starving children from the African continent. Americans are generally conditioned to feel superior to a host of Africans based on how much better off Americans are in goods, etc. Some of them come over here and also go to European nations to attend universities and turn out to be superior students to the home grown and excel academically beyond the nationals.

So if nobody ever tells you that your skin had handicapped you, you're supposed to be stupid, and you can't do a multitude of things because of it the n you just might be able to accomplish bigger things than being a rapper, singer, or super athlete which is great for those who are, but should never be presented as being that's all there is....I'm just saying.