Soap Stars You Feel Have Been Disloyal to Their Shows

[brimike]

I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something about wanting to play opposite an orangutan like on Passions, and then some quip about OLTL writers being a bunch of monkeys or something ridiculous... and it wasn't even in mainstream press. Whatever it was, it was a dig at the writers, but certainly not on the same level as calling up Page Six on the New York Post or anything. Actors have said much worse before, but for some reason, Gauthier's comment really irked Higley/Valentini.

[RoseVioletDaisy]

ITA. Harley and Reva were fine in their original incarnations when they were human and possessed enough self-awareness to accept and admit their many flaws. But when both characters returned 1997 and 1995, respectively, everything changed. They were both written as inherently unimpeachable heroines who had to always be frontburner, right about everything, possessed some God-given right to judge everyone else, and always got the guy no matter how badly they treated them. It was the mixture of overexposure, self-righteous hypocrisy, and insane garbage stories like CloneReva and RuthKarlofHarley which were created for no reason other than to give them even more airtime that ruined not only both characters but the show as well.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I never got the big deal about Reva or Harley. When I started watching GL, it was a few months after Kim Zimmer originally left, and that's my era of GL. I don't think the show's been as great or as much as a true and compelling ensemble piece since. Also, Harley was a compelling, yet flawed heroine back then. I actually liked the Coopers back then, I've found them unbearable in recent years.

I haven't cared for Reva at all since her 1995 return, and the Harley I knew and liked left in 1993, as far as I'm concerned.

[Kubla Khan]

After years of mismanagement, bad producers, bad writers, GL found itself in the financial shitter and it was essentially the fault of P&G. Zimmer's issue was this -- they approached everyone in the middle of their contracts and asked them to take cuts. Zimmer said that she would happily be willing to discuss a pay cut -- when it was time to negotiate a new contract.

And...!?!? JVD spoke constructively regarding the situation at the show he called home for 26 years. There's a big difference between "That show sucks!" and talking openly, and maturely, about the issues plaguing the show.

GL will be lucky to last another year, so if Ehlers is cut loose from AMC, at least she gained a year of employment with higher pay (And actually, her story is going to be picking up dramatically. After years of 'Let's introduce a new character and immediately throw them into heavy storyline,' I think Pratt consciously made the choice of 'Let's build her in slowly.' Many people aren't used to that).

Come on: Ehlers did not leave GL because of Goldin. That may have been a contributing factor, but it was far easier, and less messier, for her to talk about missing Ricky as a reason for leaving GL than to get to the real reasons. Ehlers has been in this business for two decades -- she knows that GL is a sinking ship, she knows that its new production model is awful, she knows that Ellen Wheeler is a clueless executive producer, and she knows that Kreizman & co. completely ruined the Harley character. She figured AMC at least still resembles a soap opera -- and not a D+-worthy student film -- and the show will probably last longer than GL. She got offered a better salary. Ehlers could've gotten really into the current GL state, but she didn't even scratch the surface.

(And so, basically, you're saying that Ehlers was disloyal because the loss of Harley was one of the show's final nails!?!? WHOSE FAULT WAS THAT that it got to the point where one actress' departure was such a huge blow? Not Ehlers, but the clueless idiots in charge).

McClain never, ever said she hated Dixie. She said that she was tired of playing a victim. She liked Rosanna because she was a bitch. Her letter was respectful and did a nice job of explaining her motives. And in her letter, she essentially said -- keep watching AMC, but check out ATWT, too! In a letter to her fans is that such a sin!?

We need to start realizing that these actors are people who have invested A LOT of their lives into these characters and these shows, and their hard work and talent often gets pissed on by moronic network execs. When the fans SUFFER as well because of their idiotic decision making, I think it is REFRESHING, and very much NEEDED, that soap actors constructively speak about their shows' ills. Often times when this happens, they're speaking what the FANS feel.

[Cashton]

Thank you so much for that rebuttal - it saved me a lot of time. This is America. We can say what we want. Anyone who has ever experienced the industry will tell you there are probably thousands of people - in front and behind-the-scenes - who have been royally screwed over by their soaps. The main post comes from a POV that actors should be grateful they get to be on TV - and that's true to a certain extent. But at the end of the day, an actor is an employee and the show is their employer and most are mere pawns being moved around the chess board.

People have the right to let off steam if they get fired or feel mistreated. and believe me they face the consequences for that, which is also fair! Davetta Sherwood told anyone who would listen how upset she was about getting fired and I have yet to hear of any projects awaiting her other than stage work.

Oh, and i can't believe you pointed out BE of all people as being disloyal. After she left she couldn't even clean out her dressing room without an escort! What was she going to do? Burn down the set? Talk about disloyalty.

But can i just say I'm glad Victoria Rowell's name wasn't mentioned once (till i ruined it!) So tired of hearing how "this and that" she is. She's outspoken, sometimes wrong, politically incorrect and I LOVE it! In fact I wish more people would talk about their soap.

[EricMontreal22]

Mine too. Yes the way Sabine was treated by Frons was a disgrace--but she holds NO ill will towards Rebecca and neither should we. And so what if Rebecca was asked three times before she finally came back--that's what actors do--they go, see if they can have success elsewhere, and if they haven't after their own amount of time, then they will be more likely to take a chance offered. And a year on a soap (especially when you're featured like she is) is still a LOT of work for the average actor.

[Mitch]

What do you work for P & G?

First let's look at Fulton and Zimmer. I do agree with you on some level that what they did was, well, not disloyal, but stupid. Fulton in particular, at that point and time was being used...not like she used to be, but she was being used. She thought she would pull an old time diva move and call the papers and complain. This screwed her over as the Shaffer was going to use her heavingly in the Scottland story and in retaliation he cut her (he never GOT the character of Lisa, so she should have been happy she was used at all.)

Zimmer is another story. At the time seven people were being fired and or put on recurring, including JVD who had more seniority then she did. With Mo dead, and Ed out of the picture, and no Meta, he was the "glue," that was keeping the show together, both on screen and behind the scenes. However, Zimmer only thinks about Zimmer...(which wouldnt we all do in the same situation) and she pulled her typical Zimmer speaking to the press move when they asked her to take a cut. However, it worked for her, as she gets her crazies to freak out and say they will quite watching if "Kim," isnt there.

JVD and Ehlers on the other hand..JVD was put on recurring and not even told when his next air date would be. This, on show which keeps someone like Dicipolous on contract??? What else was he going to do? Ehlers was in negotiations, and GL gave her an offer, but AMC beat the offer. Simple. Then she gets treated like crappola from Wheeler and company, etc. I think that anything JVD or Ehlers said about GL gets a pass. They probably dont even think of the abortion that is being aired today is the same GL that they worked for (much like the viewers of GL.)

GL is dead and everyone there knows it. Why wouldnt someone jump off that stinking turd of a show and land someone else. If they waited for the inevitable cancellation to go look for a job they wouldnt be in the position to negotiate.

[SteveFrame]

Sorry I have to totally disagree with you about Fulton. She was not being used and the rumor that Sheffer was going to use is just that a rumor. He never used her the whole time he was on. that is why she went to the press as she did. He also refused to even do a sit down with her. That is what triggered her going to the press.

As to Zimmer, I can see it both ways but I cannot blame her for not taking a pay cut in the middle of a contract. A show will not renegotiate a contract for a star in the middle of a contract. If the star suddenly faces problems and needs more money the show will not even entertain giving them more money until the next contract negotiation. But yet the show turns around and says okay you guys are in the middle of contracts but we need you to all take pay cuts. Zimmer took the pay cut later but she would not take it during the contract. And I don't blame her one bit. Every one of the stars had that right - some took the cut and some didn't.

I remember at first the magazines were even saying that Marj Dusay refused to even air recurring. One of the mags even said that she basically told them what they could do with their offer. Later she did take the recurring offer.

As far as Eileen Fulton I am sure she saw what was happening. I mean they had let Larry Bryggman go. What she did was no worse than what Elizabeth Hubbard did when she quit and spoke out or even no worse that what Helen Wagner and Don MacLaughlin did in the early 80's. Helen Wagner really spoke out then against the writers.

Sheffer totally ignored all the vets on ATWT during his tenure and they were all very mad at him and I am sure very glad to see him go. Even when Bob got a story he ended up in a coma for the majority of it. they weren't even used in scenes where they should be used much less have a story. That is the reason I still don't believe his ignorance of the vets for awhile on Days was all Corday because it was just typical Sheffer to do that.

[Gray Bunny]

Zimmer can say "Hell No!" to unfair treatment because the show is left with total nobodies if she goes. I mean is anyone going to stop watching GL if 6-time Emmy-winning Justin Deas left? He has the talent, but he doesn't have an audience pull. The only starlet who'd shine somewhere else is Gina Tognoni. Everyone else will have that "GL alumni" forever stamped on their forehead after GL bites the dust (Daniel Cosgrove and Marcy Rylan not included).

Oh, and if Liz Kiefer would make the effort, she could excell on another soap as well.

[SteveFrame]

I fear for many of them on GL after the show ends esp. the ones with actual talent.

Kim Zimmer sadly will have age against her on getting another job. I mean look at the talented Julia Barr who is just a little older than Kim but they play the same age category. There haven't even been rumors that she was even being courted by shows. I highly doubt Kim would either. And that is sad.

If you are good looking like Galen Gering, Brandon Beemer or the like you can get hired on another show quick - they have youth and looks on their side.

Older veteran actors and actresses esp. are facing a tough time in daytime. I have heard Suzanne Rogers talk about it and another actress I have recently been chatting with about doing an interview with site has talked about it too. The older veterans of soaps are finding that jobs for them in soaps are tough to get now. The older actors and actresses like Patrick Duffy, Linda Gray, etc. can't find work in primetime as readily anymore so they are coming to daytime. The soap veterans don't have the name that those stars do. They have given their careers to soaps, but in the end the powers that be go for the name.

I think that goes right here with this topic of loyalty. The daytime soap genre is probably the only one anywhere that is disloyal to the men and women who have given their lives to the genre. As I said in my recent editorial at SoapsWEB the only televized awards show daytime even has can't even take the time each year to run a memorial clip for those that have died in the last year. Almost every awards show does that. Many of the awards like the Oscars and the Emmys will invite legends to be a part of the awards show as presenters and the like. That almost never happens in daytime. Daytime soaps can't even keep enough interest and money coming in to finance a Hall of Fame. Two have been tried and both have failed.

That is what I call disloyalty. Daytime soaps have tended to be a users forum of entertainment. Actors use the genre often times as a jump start to their careers. Many say it is better than waiting tables but it is not what they want to do the rest of their lives. At the same time the genre itself often uses those performers. Many times they get large followings but often at the same time if they don't move on to something else they are just as quickly forgotten by the executives and the fans.

[Mitch]

Kimmer is not going anywhere as she will ALWAYS be Reva and yea, her age, and lets face it her weight are working against her. She is not content to play somebody's mom or grandmother, so she will ride this out as long as she can (which is this year when GL bites the dust for good.)

I dont think there would be massive waves of people leaving GL if Kimmer left (though her wack job fans would have you beleive otherwise.) But she is the only game in town on that show now...so she has the bargening power. If the show hadnt gotten away from being an esemble show, had not destroyed the Bauers, had not made the Spaudligns cartoons, and had not put all of their eggs in the Gus/Harley Jon/Tam basket (and had all actors leave for greener pastures) they wouldnt be in this mess. So GL and Wheeler created their bed, they have to sleep in it now...so part of me actually does think "Yea, Zimmer stick it to them."

And this is probably a topic on its own, but really should all of these vets we are talking about be front and center? I would say no...most of them have pumped out their last usefull storyline (how many times can Reva reunite with Josh or jump through a painting, how many times can Alan get off from a crime) and the very nature of soaps should be that they are now moving aside a bit to make way for the younger actors/characters.

On GL for example, Phillip and Amanda should have taken over for Alan and Alex, while they slowly build up Lizzie and her siblings to eventually take over from there. Alan and Alex would still be vital parts of the cavnas, but they wouldnt/shouldnt be making the same mistakes rehashing the same plots and schemeing the same schemes they have been doing for 25 years. The same goes to Reva and Josh, their kids should be the ones having hot blooded passiontate relationships (uh, since this is GL, I have to say, not with each other please) trying to discover themselves while Josh and Reva calm down a bit and try to guide them in their own unique ways (which for Reva would be getting in everyone's businsess and screwing things up by accident.)

Now TPTB are the ones that screwed that up...they should have slowly built up the younger generation and cast them with good actors and really put thought into making them unique characters of their own. But they didnt do that, they tried to extend Reva's stories by having her jump through paintings while tehy cast a succesion of underwear models as the young generations. The young actors were typically bad and bland and no thought was given to their characters. So we are top heavy with an older generation of characters who have to keep repeating the same storylines for years with younger characters who cant pick up the slack.

[jcar03]

I think Beth Ehlers left for several reasons and not just because Goldin left.

From every thing I read about GL and the numerous people jumping ship I think that had more to do with it then anything.

[Max]

Sorry to have waited so long to reply to my own thread, but I'd like to say that loyalty is a two-way street: While there are disgruntled actors that have been loyal to their soaps after having stuck around for 20+ years, one has to remember that their particular soap was never under any obligation to keep them around for so long. Take Jerry VerDorn, for example: while he was justifiably upset that he was dropped to recurring status, he was extremely lucky that GL chose to keep him contractually employed for 26 years. Thus, for those 26 years, P&G was just as loyal to VerDorn as he was to P&G; TPTB could have easily--and justifiably--terminated his employment anytime for storyline related reasons (as happens often with today's new soap actors).

I would have to say that the issue of salary is probably what upsets me the most. Most soap stars seem so tone-deaf and selfish whenever this issue comes up. For me, however, it is just a question of fairness: when the ratings continue to tumble, taking a pay cut is the only morally acceptable thing to do. Refusing to take a pay cut is one of the most disloyal things an actor can do, as it further increases the risk that their soap will become unprofitable (which, in turn, will result in a cancellation that will put all of that soap's employees out of work).

[jcar03]

I don't blame them for not wanting to take a paycut would you take a paycut where you worked? I wouldn't if I had worked there for years and years. If we are going to jump back to Kim Zimmer's case from a few years ago she had EVERY RIGHT to say no when they asked her in the middle of her contract. If she went to them in the middle and asked for something they would probably say no.

[RoseVioletDaisy]

I have to disagree. P&G/GL didn't do JVD a favor by keeping him around for 26 years. They were being smart. He was one of the best actors they had, playing one of the best, most popular characters on the show and he was a wonderful presence on the set as well. If they had fired him, no matter when, it would not have been justifiable in the least.