Didn't Rex/Adriana's wedding garner a 2.4 for that ep? Didn't the BE takeover/Nash's death get a 2.3? which granted, are not lighting the show on fire but i would rather have a writer that has proven he can get viewers to tune in to this show than someone that has not yet done so. So what if someone named Bell or Reilly can garner ratings at another show, have they written for OL? It's a totally different show.

I totally agree that the 1968 story went on way to long and the Mendorra story was kind of a lame way to bring Tina back. Those are things to be blamed on Ron. However, Ron was building other great story before the strike, such as the storyline involving Rex's paternity, bringing up talk about Blair's dad, and the whole 'Alison has a secret' story had me intrigued, but then the strike happened and other stories had to be resolved that had started while he was gone. Is that his fault?

Right after Tina returned and the Anniversary eps, Erika Slezak went on vacation. I believe so did Robin Strasser, tho for less time. How can this be Ron's fault? People have complained about there being no Viki/Tina involvement. How can there when Erika isn't around? The airport scene before Viki left was great, short yes, but great. That's all the time there was to work with. I expect Tina will be more involved once Viki gets home, same with Charlie.

After a boring couple of months, I am finally getting excited again and can not wait for November sweeps.

The Robin Strasser/A Martinez scenes have been great and I am anxious to see how the possible re-takeover of BE/CE plays out.

I can't wait for the Marty reveal and her to get her memory back..as some have said...she better lay right into Todd.

I'm anxious for Viki to return and give Charlie another chance.

Tho I'm not a big fan of the pregnancy story, I have a feeling Ron will pull characters into this story like no other. The birth of the little Manning will probably be a huge sweeps event that will tie in Starr, Cole, Blair, Todd, Marty, Marcie, Michael, and i'm sure more.

I'm willing to give Ron some more time to put several months together in a row...without interruptions (strike, Erika's vacation) to see how it goes.

The Todd/Marty stuff is the most offensive story on the air

The Todd/Marty stuff is the most offensive story on the air

I don't know about on the air but it's definitely too much for a soap. This type of story might work for a movie because even with the disturbing aspects of the story, there would be a definite end in sight.

One of the problems with telling this type of story on a soap is that the same scenes get played out over and over again which just builds on the gross factor. When a story is short and to the point, it isn't as bothersome if there is no payoff or it's less than expected. But when people invest months in something like this and there is no payoff or it's a disappointment, it could lead to viewer resentment. The caliber of the writer is not up to the level needed for something like this to be told right...it's way too ambitious.

The Todd/Marty stuff is the most offensive story on the air

....and the most riveting. Tell me a storyline in daytime right now that has more intrigue, rooted in history, edgy, controversial, has build up and has the anticipation of a huge climax (when Marty gets her memory back). I currently watch 7 out of the 8 (GL is the 1 soap I'm not watching) soaps and this is the best storyline in daytime right now. JMO of course.

As far as Ron hitting a dip after the BE takeover and the Nash death, that is because he had no story in place after the BE takeover and the Nash death. He killed Nash for no other reason than he want Jared to be his Nash. There was no plan for what should happen next with BE. That is a pretty big blunder.

Umm....are you watching the show right now (I'm gonna guess no)? The outcome of the BE takeover and Nash's death are playing out right now.

Lets be honest-It could just be the look of RC- he looks like a "dude" who wanted to be a writer. There's something wet behind the ears happening in his appearance that doesn't occur when looking at Hogan.(not trying to be shallow) He looks like a writer that wants to get pushed around- either by the fans or the corporates. Nothing about him says- "this is a man that's going to go in that board meeting and fight for a story line that means something to him."----Then you watch the show and see camp and aloof characters and acting- who else to blame but the man writing the show (figuratively speaking). The story lines are the old- and you feel some kid straight out of law school, who probably locks his office door when he goes into work, is playing god with a show you've given 5 hours a week to since you were 5....and that smile....the devil comes in many guises. Dena Higley was no better with that picture on her couch with her dog.

Oh, what utter crap. You must be fuckin' joking, my dear. Did you bother to watch Hogan Sheffer's last run on a soap opera before Y&R? That show embodied the phrase "corporate interference." I really like Sheffer, I do, but thanks to Corday and NBC he didn't get a single decent, well-thought-out story done for a single favorite, which is more than I can say for Carlivati, who brought Viki out of cold storage. And Sheffer didn't do a thing about it.

I'm sorry to puncture your fantasies of Hogan Sheffer, Macho Top but I'm afraid his recent work does not back that up, especially not compared to RC, who out of the gate, no bullshit, no excuses, gave us story for the veterans and solid writing. Which sadly, Sheffer did not.

Please give me the directions to the hypermasculine Hemingway-esque dimension you have come from.

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by Vee

I completely agree. And I wouldn't even say this is a bad storyline. I think it's a truly f*cked up storyline, a controversial storyline, and when's the last time that was shown on a soap opera? You know, there was a time when soaps were all about controversy. I know some can say that Carlivati is going for the shock value by pairing Todd and Marty together, which is what some have said, but I don't think that's what's going on here. I don't think he's trying to shock us at all. I think he's telling a very interesting story that shows how f*cked up Todd really is. He's lost everything, which he considers his family. That's everything to him. He has nothing else and is grasping at strings. At first, yes, taking Marty was about revenge, but from the time that he's spent with her, he's grown close to her. She has essentially become his family. And since that's missing, he'll accept that and go along with it because it's all he has. You do see him resisting at times and I think it's a good thing that they show that resistance rather than Todd just going in for the kill and romancing Marty. He knows this is wrong, but he wants to have someone in his life and right now, the only person giving him the time of day is Marty.

And then you have Marty, who has no idea what's going on, so it works. In a normal situation, Todd and Marty could never work. It should never work. But this isn't Marty right now. She has no idea about the rape. Until Marty's memory comes back, she's a completely new character with a clean slate.

Now, once Marty's memory comes back and she still wants to be with Todd, then I'll be on board in saying that this is a bad storyline.

But as of right now, I'm intrigued. Carlivati is giving me something no other writers are. Controversy.

I'm not giving up. I can't.

ITA! Great points! Nuf said!

Lets be honest-It could just be the look of RC- he looks like a "dude" who wanted to be a writer. There's something wet behind the ears happening in his appearance that doesn't occur when looking at Hogan.(not trying to be shallow) He looks like a writer that wants to get pushed around- either by the fans or the corporates. Nothing about him says- "this is a man that's going to go in that board meeting and fight for a story line that means something to him."----Then you watch the show and see camp and aloof characters and acting- who else to blame but the man writing the show (figuratively speaking). The story lines are the old- and you feel some kid straight out of law school, who probably locks his office door when he goes into work, is playing god with a show you've given 5 hours a week to since you were 5....and that smile....the devil comes in many guises. Dena Higley was no better with that picture on her couch with her dog.

Huh? I don't know how to reply to this post. What do their looks have to do anything with how they write?

He has been head writer for well over a year, and was co head writer since last February. But if you want to say he is only accountable for a 10 month period, that is fine, but it still doesn't explain how the ratings for HIS material is lower then Higley's and the scab writing. He has ruined the return of Tina, and decided that camp is the way to go for everything. He is incapable and either needs to be fired or needs a co head writer who knows how to juggle all the demands of a head writer. Ron is fine as a writer, but he clearly cannot handle the HW job and OLTL has suffered considerably because of his inability to perform the job he was hired to do.

If he wrote what you wanted someone else would take up the gauntlet and say that he's a hack. No matter who writes for OLTL or any soap, not everyone is going to agree. Those who don't like the show should get off their collective high fences and just stop watching... if OLTL loses viewership and cancels then you're right... if not it was only your opinion.

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by kandbar

A hamster on crack is better than Higley. That can't be the standard.

LOL! Again we agree. This could become a habit.

I am on a break right now until Natalie is no longer held prisoner. I just can't watch this Tess Mess anymore. And it's not like anything else on the show is really entertaining me.

But they should be fired for low ratings: you don't keep a CEO who's producing loss for your company. At least in that wasy, you're trying to do something. The bigger problem here is Frons... But we told that tale a million times.

This post IS OLTL relevant...so bear with me.

I want to put a little accuracy into this thread. Several people have accused RC of "low" ratings or "falling" ratings, or what have you.

Using Toups' archives, I plotted the 2008 weekly ratings for all the soaps. See here:

1. The overall picture is pretty flat. In light of the dramatic falls over the last many years, stability is a good thing.

2. To find a show in trouble, look for declines that are FASTER (steeper) than average. As a corollary, to look for a show that is (at least short term) healing, look for a rate of increase that is FASTER than average.

- Y&R from 4/28 until 7/7 was in extra-rapid descent. Interestingly, it began to bump up about a month before the Sudden Impact peak, which raises a question about how much all that promotion and the story actually accomplished. Was it bouncing back on its own? More relevant...it has pretty much HELD since Sudden Impact...but it still is lower than it started the year with. Thus, real ratings damage was done to this show in the first half of the year.

- B&B also declined pretty linearly from April till June, and then held. Again, to me this implies that new (lower) plateau may have been reached.

- Days (hard to see, but it is that light blue line) is the CRAZY soap. You clearly see that Olympic bump...but you also see that the show is "up and down like a toilet seat". In biological systems, extreme variability is a sign of vulnerability (homeostatic failure). By that metric, Days is very vulnerable.

- Look at the amazing and ENDURING GL bleed-out. It is now about 0.5 lower than it started the year with. Moreover, this cannot be blamed on the "CBS Lineup"...because both Y&R and B&B have held pretty stable or even increased a little since July. During the same period, GL fell fastest.

- Now, OLTL is very hard to make out, because it has such overlap with AMC most weeks. But that, in itself, is VERY informative. OLTL AND AMC, remarkably, need to be credited for being among the most stable soaps on air. They have hovered around 2.0, with little shifts in rank order, throughout the entire year.

Thus, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE that Carlivati has done ANY ratings damage to the show. True...he has also not boosted the show's ratings (but, honestly, who expects that?). When you look at the big declines experienced (during portions of the year) by Y&R, B&B, DOOL and especially GL....the ABC lineup is to be credited with holding on quite tenaciously.

Any critique of Carlivati with regard to viewership is simply specious.

As one final note, the other sad decline is ATWT. That yellow line has experienced almost as much decline (about 0.3) as GL. What a way to squander that Nuke momentum...

The fact that ABC is holding on so nicely actually suggests to me that Frons is a force for good, relatively speaking, not evil. I wonder if his heavy new emphasis on promotion will goose the ratings at all?

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by MarkH

....and the most riveting. Tell me a storyline in daytime right now that has more intrigue, rooted in history, edgy, controversial, has build up and has the anticipation of a huge climax (when Marty gets her memory back). I currently watch 7 out of the 8 (GL is the 1 soap I'm not watching) soaps and this is the best storyline in daytime right now. JMO of course.

Marty gets her memory back and realizes she's been mind raped, manipulated and victimized by this evil rapist. Thats not entertainment for me. Its absolutely disgusting and revolting. Marty has been a tragic character since she started and has been so traumatized and victimized over the years and most of that hurt came from Todd. Im not enjoying watching her go through any of this yet again at the hands of this monster. I've always hated Marty as played by SH and I dont think she deserves this. I dont even want to think about what will happen when she finds out the truth. I don't think I've ever been this completely turned off by a storyline and I've seen some really bad ones over the years. I do find it offensive and wonder if theres anyone behind the scenes asking Ron WTF are you doing?

....and the most riveting. Tell me a storyline in daytime right now that has more intrigue, rooted in history, edgy, controversial, has build up and has the anticipation of a huge climax (when Marty gets her memory back). I currently watch 7 out of the 8 (GL is the 1 soap I'm not watching) soaps and this is the best storyline in daytime right now. JMO of course.

Umm....are you watching the show right now (I'm gonna guess no)? The outcome of the BE takeover and Nash's death are playing out right now.

As much as it turns my stomach and makes me want to vomit, Todd and Marty have me spellbound. Like Drew said, she is not the Marty Saybrooke that she was 20 years ago. She has no memories at all except for the ones Todd is feeding her. She has had contact with three people, Janet, Tess and Todd. Given those choices and the fact that your memory is a clean slate you are kinda forced to trust these people as they ahve done nothing to hurt her. I fast forward through any intimate scenes because I can't stomach it. But SH and TSJ have reeled me in. Their chemistry is kind of weirdly awkward but hopeful. Seeing that I watched the rape scenes live, I would have a very big problem if Roger Howarth was doing this story because in a way, I justify this in my mind that it wasn't really this Todd that raped Marty. Seriously, when Todd raped Marty did anyone think that 20 years later she would be in his bed with amnesia and their kids procreated? It's an amazing storyline and I give RC a lot of credit for telling this story when not too many people would have the courage to do so.

I like the Rex and Gigi romance and think it is at the right place. Solely because it is balancing out the rest of the canvas. Natalie/Tess/Jared revenge story, Todd and Marty ick story, Starr and Cole baby woes, these stories aren't the most uplifting. Seeing Rex and Gigi and John and Blair for me at least balances it out and makes it sexy and funny. I believe that you have to have light stories along with the bad.

Just a little speculation on my part...

I so think Adriana is pregnant since they are only shooting her from the waist up!

Marty gets her memory back and realizes she's been mind raped, manipulated and victimized by this evil rapist. Thats not entertainment for me. Its absolutely disgusting and revolting. Marty has been a tragic character since she started and has been so traumatized and victimized over the years and most of that hurt came from Todd. Im not enjoying watching her go through any of this yet again at the hands of this monster. I've always hated Marty as played by SH and I dont think she deserves this. I dont even want to think about what will happen when she finds out the truth. I don't think I've ever been this completely turned off by a storyline and I've seen some really bad ones over the years. I do find it offensive and wonder if theres anyone behind the scenes asking Ron WTF are you doing?

Cheap this post just says it all!

Sorry but I don't find anything enjoyable about a rape victim once again being raped in various other ways by her former gang rapist.

I'm starting to think that when(if she ever does) get her memory back, she'll thank Todd for saving her from Ramsey and all will be forgiven

Cheap this post just says it all!

Sorry but I don't find anything enjoyable about a rape victim once again being raped in various other ways by her former gang rapist.

I'm starting to think that when(if she ever does) get her memory back, she'll thank Todd for saving her from Ramsey and all will be forgiven

excuse me while I throw up. Todd has been going down a dark path this past year and I thought him beating up on teenagers was hitting rock bottom but he has sunk to a new low. There's no redemption for him in my eyes right now. I want John and Cole to kill him or at least attempt to. He needs to pay and unfortunetly I know he wont which will make this even worse

And then theres the bit about what he's doing to Natalie and Jessica by refusing to get her help to save his own skin. I really hope Viki and everyone find out about that as well

I ain't gonna cry a river, I'm gonna LMAO, I so needed that laugh, thanks. The show has hit it's stride in what? Camp? Hackiness?

Laughter is the best medicine...turn your tv off - OLTL will never satisfy everyone in every way - if it did, it would be illegal.