SON is one of the most generally articulate, civil, passionate places about soaps on the web. One of the beauties (for me) is that so many people go "meta"...they think about the creative process and economics and social forces BEHIND the stories.

SON manages not to descend to the level of snark of, say, a TWOP....and it manages not to turn into these silly infantile "fanbase wars" or "supercouple wars" that show up other places.

I appreciate the attempt to maintain civility.

The problem is, of course, that too much maintenance of civility can have a "chilling effect", and sometimes your most energetic posters can go away.

One way to deal with that is to be VERY explicit in the guidelines, with examples, about is and is not acceptable. And to require all new members read it and "check it off" before being allowed to proceed.

This is my long-winded way of saying I value you all, and I learn from you every day. Thank you.

Understood. (Although I LOVE TwoP! I agree with you about the other types of boards. )

i just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything because I want to be able to post my apprehensions about an upcoming storyline without worrying about stepping on toes. That's not beneficial, either. Now, when it gets to bashing the actual POSTER..........

Anyway, the topic is Samanther, Senior! I miss Andrea Hall Geiger? Isn't that her name now?

Shows have natural lifespans, and some of them may have exceeded them.

The thing about DAYS is the audience will return - it has in the past. Sure it won't be as much as before, but I truly believe DAYS is one of those soap with viewers who will come back with the right storyline.

When DAYS was down in 92, Jim Reilly brought DAYS back up.

When DAYS was down in 2001, B&C brought DAYS back up.

When DAYS was down in 2003, Jim Reilly DAYS back up.

It can be done again. It needs the right vision, someone who can come up with a kickass storyline that will draw viewers back.

Battle lines are officially being drawn!!!!!

:lol:

I've officially stopped blaming Higley for everything. (I know, right? I'm shocked too!) This was my epiphany for today - one that many people have had before me, but it took me until this afternoon for it really to register in my head, for various reasons. I think that show is just one HUGE fustercluck, and it's part bad writing, and part bad EP'ing and part unable to move on from the past, and part bad fanbases, and it's all messy egos, and I don't even care anymore, I just wish the show would either implode under this litany of bad decisions on LOTS of people's parts, or step forward with a public apology for all the CRAP they've thrown the fans' way, both on-camera AND off-camera, both in the writers' room and in the casting department, in the producers' office and in Ken Corday's office, say we screwed everything up, but let's sit down and tell you a damn fine storyline that has nuance, powerful performances and forget all the mismatched BS we have been force-feeding down your throats for FAR too long now - through Langan and Brash/Cwickly's firing and Reilly-Take Two and Higley- Part One and Sheffer/Kelly and Higley Two-Electric Bugaloo, and the writers' strike crap that just divided everybody into two camps and did nothing but create TWO MORE RABID FANBASES, which is the LAST thing this ratf@cked show needs. Because it's killing everything, especially this fans' love for the show.

I'm thrilled for the Samantha reference. I'm glad they're doing it. But I'm so exhausted from the ping-ponging my adoration of Salem has suffered through in the last fifteen years, it doesn't even matter. Deidre plays Samantha for eight scenes. Great. Fantastic. Doesn't change the fact that every time I turn on Days, everything just seems tainted, and every time I open a Days thread lately, my heart just sinks a little more.

Wow. I don't know where all that came from. What can I say? It's been a REALLY weird day.

It's Ok, honey. Just let it all out.

The constant attitudes and annoying snark that's been happening a lot lately on the board is annoying, and a major turn off IMO.

DAYS has been plagued by mismanagement for years, even back when other soaps weren't.

I mean, is DAYS' MASSIVE LOSS in ad revenue (more so than any other soap) troubling anyone to get this show refocused again?

Frankly, with budget cuts definitely on the way for this show, I don't think anyone cares to clean up the behind the scenes mess. And from what I'm hearing, all the respectable writers in the industry avoid DAYS like the plague, and I can't say I blame them.

The thing with DAYS always rebounding is that it always falls massively a few months after (barring JER's first stint). DAYS has the most split fanbases and viewing audiences of all the daytime soaps.

Edited July 25, 200817 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

So, the folks who post negative comments and apprehensions about this whole thing on Days are not being respectful? If that's the case, there should be a lot of posts that should be pulled right now. I don't understand why people who feel burned by Dena cannot express their lack of "like" for something coming up. It's done all the time.

Not at all. However there is a diff between that and when someone has the nerve to not only enjoy the show but actually express that and they get slammed, amde fun of, and even get really nasty e-mails sent to them.

It can be done again. It needs the right vision, someone who can come up with a kickass storyline that will draw viewers back.

It needs Tom Casiello - and no, that's not just because of his blog, lol.

Truthfully, I've heard him chat with Ryan several times on ITZ. As far as I am concerned, TC feels passionate about DAYS and about daytime; and ideas he has been gracious enough to share for potential storylines...well...they don't suck, lol. Granted, ideas are a dime a dozen. After everything we have endured, though, I'll let just about anyone, even Megan McTavish, take a stab at saving DAYS.

Edited July 25, 200817 yr by Khan

Battle lines are officially being drawn!!!!!

:lol:

I've officially stopped blaming Higley for everything. (I know, right? I'm shocked too!) This was my epiphany for today - one that many people have had before me, but it took me until this afternoon for it really to register in my head, for various reasons. I think that show is just one HUGE fustercluck, and it's part bad writing, and part bad EP'ing and part unable to move on from the past, and part bad fanbases, and it's all messy egos, and I don't even care anymore, I just wish the show would either implode under this litany of bad decisions on LOTS of people's parts, or step forward with a public apology for all the CRAP they've thrown the fans' way, both on-camera AND off-camera, both in the writers' room and in the casting department, in the producers' office and in Ken Corday's office, say we screwed everything up, but let's sit down and tell you a damn fine storyline that has nuance, powerful performances and forget all the mismatched BS we have been force-feeding down your throats for FAR too long now - through Langan and Brash/Cwickly's firing and Reilly-Take Two and Higley- Part One and Sheffer/Kelly and Higley Two-Electric Bugaloo, and the writers' strike crap that just divided everybody into two camps and did nothing but create TWO MORE RABID FANBASES, which is the LAST thing this ratf@cked show needs. Because it's killing everything, especially this fans' love for the show.

THANK YOU!!!!

This is my thing. IMHO Days has for the most part sucked for... about 10 years. More even. The show has sucked through countless HW's. Nothing ever seems to change on Days (except as much as i hate his HW stint i will say when Hogan was there that team he had made an amazing change in giving people a brain... but...). So what is the ONE thing ALL of these HW's share?

Ken Corday.

We all know he is the problem. sure depends on who is the HW the levels of sucking vary, but i imagne that is just baised on how involved KC is at that moment. It has been amazing at time under JERk, B&C, SSM, DH 1 & 2, JERk2, etc... however it has also been for the most part the same and rather underwhelming. You can see the show going somewhere and building to s oemthing then it all is dropped and changes direction. at that point i always assume that KC got involved and changed his mind.

I hate Hogan's time at days. 99% of it. I also hated half of his HW stint at ATWT. I hated DH's first run and her OLTL run. I hated JERk's passions. But none of that matters. I can even picture working for that man and i feel for them all. I imagine from interviews with various people talking about how HW's were limited and things were changed and storyliens changed halfway through just because that none of these people can be judged fairly on Days. This is what i realized. This is a major reason i defended DH since her return.

We all have knowen KC is the issue maybe its time he takes all the blame. Look at the post in DTS about the money the show has lost. They are still paying.. god how many HW's? KC has no idea how to run a buisness and the only shot Days has at being good is for him to see this and step aside.

Not at all. However there is a diff between that and when someone has the nerve to not only enjoy the show but actually express that and they get slammed, amde fun of, and even get really nasty e-mails sent to them.

People have sent you nasty e-mails for LIKING the show????

THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!

Argh. Who takes the time to even TYPE something like that? Who has the energy? I know I don't.

JP, you and I have been on opposite sides of this argument since last November, which is cool. I totally respect your opinion. But the fact that it's almost AUGUST and clearly, whether you like the show or not, you have to admit there is some INSANITY going on behind the scenes that still hasn't recovered from the mess of the strike. I honestly don't think the problem is that there's no long-term vision - I think the answer is probably that there are TOO MANY long-term visions, and they're all vying for control. You see months of testing chemistry between different couples, and I see a behind-the-scenes power play over who has more control, and who's going to get their way in the end. And this is not what a show in danger of cancellation in 2010 (since we know they're pretty much safe for next year) needs right now.

Honestly? I just want Ken Corday to take over EP'ing and HW'ing the show full time from now on. No more Ed and no more Dena. Just make Ken do it all so we all know who to blame when the axe finally falls. Because the obvious power struggles behind the scenes are going to nail the coffin shut on this show.

People have sent you nasty e-mails for LIKING the show????

THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!

Argh. Who takes the time to even TYPE something like that? Who has the energy? I know I don't.

JP, you and I have been on opposite sides of this argument since last November, which is cool. I totally respect your opinion. But the fact that it's almost AUGUST and clearly, whether you like the show or not, you have to admit there is some INSANITY going on behind the scenes that still hasn't recovered from the mess of the strike. I honestly don't think the problem is that there's no long-term vision - I think the answer is probably that there are TOO MANY long-term visions, and they're all vying for control. You see months of testing chemistry between different couples, and I see a behind-the-scenes power play over who has more control, and who's going to get their way in the end. And this is not what a show in danger of cancellation in 2010 (since we know they're pretty much safe for next year) needs right now.

Honestly? I just want Ken Corday to take over EP'ing and HW'ing the show full time from now on. No more Ed and no more Dena. Just make Ken do it all so we all know who to blame when the axe finally falls. Because the obvious power struggles behind the scenes are going to nail the coffin shut on this show.

Yes, i have. I know... right?

We have disagreed. lol. and im sure we always will. but this is why i like you (and others) we can disagree. and discuss. and debate. and not fight and argue.

and yes. there is tons of INSANITY going on. see my post above. lol.

The thing with DAYS always rebounding is that it always falls massively a few months after (barring JER's first stint). DAYS has the most split fanbases and viewing audiences of all the daytime soaps.

B&C were doing well creatively and in the ratings. There was no reason to demote them.

JER was doing well for the first 9-10 months. I truly believe if he got his way, DAYS wouldn't have fallen so much.

Not at all. However there is a diff between that and when someone has the nerve to not only enjoy the show but actually express that and they get slammed, amde fun of, and even get really nasty e-mails sent to them.

Dude, if you're getting nast emails from SON members, you should forward them to me.

It needs Tom Casiello - and no, that's not just because of his blog, lol.

Truthfully, I've heard him chat with Ryan several times on ITZ. As far as I am concerned, TC feels passionate about DAYS and about daytime; and ideas he has been gracious enough to share for potential storylines...well...they don't suck, lol. Granted, ideas are a dime a dozen. After everything we have endured, though, I'll let just about anyone, even Megan McTavish, take a stab at saving DAYS.

I like Tom too but I think he needs a Co-HW. Like I said before Tom teamed up with Paula Cwikly would be awesome.

And no to Megan. Are you crazy? LOL

Dude, if you're getting nast emails from SON members, you should forward them to me.

it wont do anything since its a madeup yahoo email they deleted after sneding, trust me, i looked into it...

And no to Megan. Are you crazy? LOL

OMG! WE AGREE!!! lol

DAYS has been plagued by mismanagement for years, even back when other soaps weren't.

I mean, is DAYS' MASSIVE LOSS in ad revenue (more so than any other soap) troubling anyone to get this show refocused again?

Frankly, with budget cuts definitely on the way for this show, I don't think anyone cares to clean up the behind the scenes mess. And from what I'm hearing, all the respectable writers in the industry avoid DAYS like the plague, and I can't say I blame them.

The thing with DAYS always rebounding is that it always falls massively a few months after (barring JER's first stint). DAYS has the most split fanbases and viewing audiences of all the daytime soaps.

You know, you mention a version of what Toups does...the constant falling and bouncing back.

But variability is not good here. In movies or books, critics call it "uneven". For Days (all soaps, but esp. Days) the rises and falls have been so frequent and dramatic.

What happens is a fan burnout. There comes a point in which the next "plan to save Days" is simply one plan too many.

One of the reasons Y&R has stayed on top has been absolutely consistency. Some people weren't EXCITED by that...but at least they knew they were getting a consistent product. For soaps, familiarity is part of the formula.

I have NO DOUBT that Days can be creatively fixed (in theory...but it has an owner/EP, a well-intentioned but ultimately over-matched HW, and a network that really hobble it). But the very act of "fixing" introduces ONE MORE pendulum swing that will...sooner or later...burn out still more fans who simply want a familiar and consistent product.

In soaps I think "slow build rescues" are actually much smarter than dramatic ones (Sudden Impact!) because the viewers don't realize (explicitly) they are watching a damaged product get slowly better. They just realize, day by day, that their show has improved. They don't feel like they're watching wildly careening from dreck-to-glory.

In that sense, I think the dramatic Reilly rescues were really the most problematic, because they SO fundamentally altered the show. Nobody could miss what was happening...but then when the quality ebbed (or the fan support ebbed), the contrast was so extreme it facilitated viewer hemmorhage.

What Days needs is to SLOWLY get better, day by day. To do that, they need a skilled HW who is planning major story climaxes in November, January, March, etc. (Does ANYONE do it that way anymore?).

It needs Tom Casiello - and no, that's not just because of his blog, lol.

Truthfully, I've heard him chat with Ryan several times on ITZ. As far as I am concerned, TC feels passionate about DAYS and about daytime; and ideas he has been gracious enough to share for potential storylines...well...they don't suck, lol. Granted, ideas are a dime a dozen. After everything we have endured, though, I'll let just about anyone, even Megan McTavish, take a stab at saving DAYS.

Those idiots would chew him up, spit him out, and leave him in a straitjacket when all was said and done.

And Ken will never hire Paula again, unfortunately.

And Ken will never hire Paula again, unfortunately.

Good, she's Y&R's only good breakdown writer at the moment.

I liked her Co-HW tenure at DAYS, but I've followed her breakdowns at Y&R more closely. From them, I sense that she loves digging into history, loves writing family oriented scenes, and there's a sense of heart and love that comes through in her episodes. She just seems like a soap fan, and I can't say that about most of the writers in daytime anymore.

And yeah, a shame Corday won't hire her again, but I don't think she'd want to work for him again (I mean, who with a reputation would?)