Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

Thanks. I wonder if Rebecca ever wished she'd stayed at Loving, although she wasn't going to be at either show for very long.

There isn't much of Colleen's Cecilia around. There was a clip of her in a bar with Rick, but I don't think it's on Youtube at the moment. She is also the maid of honor at Ava's wedding to "Clay," for some reason.

[j swift]

Thought-provoking stuff.

I've really been contemplating your post for the past few hours.  Because my first instinct was that Lucinda was a wonderfully complex character.  But, then I started to think how much that characterization was implied based on the casting, and how much of Lucinda's complexity was actually filled in by subsequent writers.  IIRC, Marland wrote Lily finding out that she was adopted.  But, it wasn't until much later that anyone explored what inspired Lucinda to bond so closely with Lily. - sorry for the ATWT tangent

I also really appreciate this idea because of the obvious parallel between Corinth-Ann and Pine Valley's Ann Tyler Martin. I could see her as a Nixon-coded character that may not have inspired Marland as much.  They were both nice, but miserable, rich, blonds, with more popular siblings, that allowed the audience to believe that money couldn't buy happiness.

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Edited 16 hours ago by j swift

[dc11786]

One of the struggles I see in early Loving is the execution of archetypes that both writers used with their own flavor. Whether Ava is Erica Kane or Nola Reardon seems based on who is at the helm. Similarly, whether Dane Hammond is Nick Davis or one of Marland blue collar schemers falls into the same category. Out of curiousity, what would you have liked seen done with Anne in that first year?

Nixon had Ava waving a gun around threatening to shoot Stacey fairly early on so I am not sure if Nixon had a grip on Ava (or maybe Ava just didn't have a grip on her sanity). 

Nixon and Marland are so different in style it was bound to be chaotic transferring story. Even Millee Taggert/Robert Guza to Agnes Nixon has its complications. I much prefered Taggert/Guza's Shana / Leo story to Nixon's. Elements of Stacey / Buck worked better under the prior regime than under Nixon, but I do think Nixon had a stronger long story vision for Stacey and Buck (and possibly Stacey / Curtis). Nixon does great work with Steffi Brewster with her eating disorder, introducing calculating and flighty Deborah, and pairing her with Clay and Cooper. I loved Janie Sinclair. The Cradle Foundation mystery was very good. I really liked Ava being accused of Egypt's "murder," but I know others didn't like it. The ad agency stuff was great.

I just don't see the same energy in the 1985-1986 Loving material. It all seems very flat, but maybe I just haven't seen enough of it. 

I also think Stacey was more interesting in the late run Marland episodes from March, 1985, then from anything after in the 1980s until about Lily's return. 

I think Nixon, like Marland and others, defaults to many of her past storylines. Anne and Harry Sowolosky is just Anne and Nick Davis. Except I don't think Nick kidnapped and threatened to rape anyone in the Tyler clan, but AMC is not always my cup of tea.  

Honestly, I wasn't even thinking of the money angle, which definitely should have been explored more. Nixon had that set up when she was leaving in August, 1994. Cabot had returned and there was the anniversary of Alden Enterprises and Lady Alden soap. McCarthy and Walsh execute the reveal as they had working on Nixon's team. I appreciate a lot of things that Addie Walsh and Laurie McCarthy do early in their run, but dropping that story wasn't one of them. I do think that would have been a great starting point to bring back on some Watleys especially given that contracts would be up. Not that I would want Ted Knight in the role, but I think some of Danny's story could have gone to Johnny Watley.  

Carly's departure (along with Paul, Michael, and Flynn) was to open up space on the canvas for the younger set that Walsh wanted to introduce (Staige, Kent, Cooper, and Casey). With the half-hour, there was only so much room. 

I think Marland's Trisha and Steve dealt with the complications of her involvement with Rick Elkins, another preppie boy that was in the Aldens social circle. I imagine that story may have played out a little while longer. 

When Trisha and Trucker's class conflict marriage tension occurs under Mary Ryan Munisteri, I do feel that there is an underlying level of elitism to what Trisha is doing. Isn't there a rather ridiculous rant in an early October 1991 episode where Trisha goes off because Trucker stole Giff downstairs to the bar of the Corinth Towers so that they can watch a basketball game or something? I think a lot of it was low level and one script writer even had Trisha write it off as pregnancy hormones, but Trisha definintely had a bit of entitlement. It was just later cloaked by her moral high ground regarding Trucker and Dinahlee's affair, which she had every right to have. 

I hate Giff / Trisha from about July - September 1992. I cannot watch much of it either because it is so bad. It's such a left field move to have Giff suddenly go psycho in a scene with Casey at their apartment when there was no real build before. 

I've seen a little of Dion as Cecilia in the November, 1987, episodes that have popped up over the years. I find Cecilia's romance with Rick had the potential to spark a lot of drama, but I think Ralph Ellis decided to place Rick further into the Jack / Stacey / Lily story by encouraging Lily as well as taking the role that Curtis should have played in that story. Steve dies later in the month or early in December and Cecilia is gone. I'm not even sure she's around long enough to see Steve off. 

[Kane]

She and Ava were friends. Cecelia lived in the Rescott house for a while after her father died and before she and Steve got married, and Ava was her confidante when she was scheming to hold on to Steve, which put Ava in an awkward position since she knew Clay (Alex) would be angry if he knew she was helping Trisha's rival.

[DRW50]

Thanks. I hope some of that shows up someday. (or maybe it is in some clips/episodes I just forgot)

I did forget about the scene with Trucker and Giff. Thanks. 

The little I've seen from 85-86 does seem flat, aside from some of the performances. 

I never knew Ava was waving a gun at Stacey. I guess this must have still been Patty Lotz. 

So Joe Breen didn't choose to leave? I couldn't remember. 

The Danny character being tied to the Rescotts would have been better, in part because we wouldn't have had the sleazy Danny/Ally material that made the character difficult to watch.