I agree with you Jay

Ryan you know I love Ron. Speaking of him, How's that high def pic coming along?

I went through a period of fan euphoria, still there to a degree, when all I could do was gush. Part of it came from an almost overnight turnaround in quality, but another large part was that other online people were finally noticing, especially here, and not all of them were longtime OLTL people. It doesn't mean I didn't see weaknesses, just that they seemed so minor as to not be worth dwelling on, especially after years of effort to say anything positive, to justify my viewer loyalty.

Now that Ron has proven himself, I see no reason to stop hoping that he can make it even better, step it up a notch, I'm even expecting it. As for recycling? Doesn't bother me in that it seems to be part of a master plan, or theme if you will, rather than a lack of creativity or laziness. This goes back to my reading of the scene between Viki and Dorian in the wine cellar, when Dorian called a lot of recent history into question. As an anology, I think of early comments about Pedro Almodovar's work. Either Almodovar himself, or sometone else, said his movies were about a Spain where Generalissimo Franco never happened.

Just me, but I try to reserve the term hater for people who make over the top admissions that they hate a fictional character that's never really harmed them personally. Sorta like the following.

Let me clear one thing up I DONT HATE MARCIE MCBAIN BECAUSE SHE'S FAT. I HATE HER BECAUSE SHE AN ANNOYING HYPOCRITICAL SHREW!!

I think this statement qualifies a legitimate hater of Marcie McBain. (Just kidding Jay!)

I hate the term because it's so frequently used to describe people who really haven't expressed anything more than a rational difference of opinion, and for me, that doesn't rise to the level of hatred. I haven't seen any over the top statements about RC or his writing.

That said

"Our 40th anniversary deserved more than just a clip montage--we're retelling classic stories." - "Fly Guy" Ron Carlivati, Head Writer of One Life To Live

Call it Retelling/Recycling, whatever, Carlivati, in his own words seems to agree that he does it and he's not ashamed of it. So I've flipped again and now I agree with Jay. But if somebody comes back with a good argument for the other side, I am notoriously fickle and can be swayed.

Edited June 23, 200817 yr by rhinohide

Ryan you know I love Ron. Speaking of him, How's that high def pic coming along?

I downloaded it yesterday. I'll send it to you when I get home (on dial up here, and I don't remember where I saved it on my server).

LOL Thats why I love the nickname ReCycle that he was given on another board. It's true, and there is nothing wrong with that, and it offers some comic relief.

I downloaded it yesterday. I'll send it to you when I get home (on dial up here, and I don't remember where I saved it on my server).

Take your time.

I also find it incredible that are ripping apart my term hater without quoting me directly, Jay and rhinohide. I am not offended that you disagree with me but deem it disrespectful that you don't confront me specifically. I will not thrash about and call you names if you do speak to me LOL.

And hater, in my experience, has meant what Jay has done by stating that Ron is rehashing old s/l. It's what haters do: express an opinion that puts someone down. It's not literally hatred. It's more pettiness.

I also find it incredible that are ripping apart my term hater without quoting me directly, Jay and rhinohide. I am not offended that you disagree with me but deem it disrespectful that you don't confront me specifically. I will not thrash about and call you names if you do speak to me LOL.

And hater, in my experience, has meant what Jay has done by stating that Ron is rehashing old s/l. It's what haters do: express an opinion that puts someone down. It's not literally hatred. It's more pettiness.

I certainly never intended to be disrespectful, at all. To the contrary, I was simply making an effort to avoid being confrontational, but I am not very good at it. Hopefully my jest and calling Jay out on his own haterade came off as the good humor it was intended. I think I am really funny, but not everyone agrees. <sniff>

Edited June 23, 200817 yr by rhinohide

I certainly never intended to be disrespectful, at all. To the contrary, I was simply making an effort to avoid being confrontational, but I am not very good at it. Hopefully my jest and calling Jay out on his own haterade came off as the good humor it was intended. I think I am really funny, but not everyone agrees. <sniff>

That was pretty funny if you ask me!

I also find it incredible that are ripping apart my term hater without quoting me directly, Jay and rhinohide. I am not offended that you disagree with me but deem it disrespectful that you don't confront me specifically. I will not thrash about and call you names if you do speak to me LOL.

And hater, in my experience, has meant what Jay has done by stating that Ron is rehashing old s/l. It's what haters do: express an opinion that puts someone down. It's not literally hatred. It's more pettiness.

I quoted your post and said that I hope you werent referring to me as a hater. I have no problem coming straight to you.

I certainly never intended to be disrespectful, at all. To the contrary, I was simply making an effort to avoid being confrontational, but I am not very good at it. Hopefully my jest and calling Jay out on his own haterade came off as the good humor it was intended. I think I am really funny, but not everyone agrees. <sniff>

Yeah, I prefer confrontation. As long as there is no name-calling.

I find it incredible that even when someone is doing something right, there are still haters.

Well guess what, unless he is doing it perfectly my friend, there are always going to be haters. I hope your not referring to me as one of those haters either.

Jay I appreciate that you are trying to keep objective and not get blinded by the "fan euphoria". I myself am still remaining objective. I am cautiously optimistic about the plans for the 40th anniversary. It sounds like he's recycling, he pretty much admits it, but again, it's all in our individual perspectives....

I went through a period of fan euphoria, still there to a degree, when all I could do was gush. Part of it came from an almost overnight turnaround in quality, but another large part was that other online people were finally noticing, especially here, and not all of them were longtime OLTL people. It doesn't mean I didn't see weaknesses, just that they seemed so minor as to not be worth dwelling on, especially after years of effort to say anything positive, to justify my viewer loyalty.

Now that Ron has proven himself, I see no reason to stop hoping that he can make it even better, step it up a notch, I'm even expecting it. As for recycling? Doesn't bother me in that it seems to be part of a master plan, or theme if you will, rather than a lack of creativity or laziness. This goes back to my reading of the scene between Viki and Dorian in the wine cellar, when Dorian called a lot of recent history into question. As an anology, I think of early comments about Pedro Almodovar's work. Either Almodovar himself, or sometone else, said his movies were about a Spain where Generalissimo Franco never happened.

That's where the difference lies for me. Recycling, IMO, denotes laziness and a lack of creativity. Copying. Repeating. Same stuff, different characters. It doesn't appear to me that Ron has any shortage of ideas on where to take the show, but he's looking back at what made these characters who they are, what got them to where they are right now, and is letting that inspire him as he creates fresh story for them. Using the past as motivators for the present. And that, I simply consider to be "mining rich history". But perhaps we're all just exercising semantics right now and basically recycling each others argument. LOL.

Call it Retelling/Recycling, whatever, Carlivati, in his own words seems to agree that he does it and he's not ashamed of it. So I've flipped again and now I agree with Jay. But if somebody comes back with a good argument for the other side, I am notoriously fickle and can be swayed.

The 40th anniversary, as I said, has me a little concerned, but I am going to be open minded, and go into it expecting an event. It's an opportunity to once again combine the past and present as a way of winking at long-time fans who saw the original storylines, and enlightening the newer fans to past stories that helped put OLTL on the map. Big moments from the past, things that stick out as milestones for OLTL, will be revisited and I'm SURE that OLTL will be poking fun at itself, and also tugging at our heartstrings. It's a celebration of what made/makes OLTL a treasure. But it's an event, and when that event is done, I'm sure they will return to the stories they've been building over the last six months and we will be able to just appreciate the event for what it was.

That was pretty funny if you ask me!

Oh Good! I get myself in trouble all the time because not everybody gets my humor, or I am just not as funny as I think I am.

Yeah, I prefer confrontation. As long as there is no name-calling.

I will try to be better in the future.

That's where the difference lies for me. Recycling, IMO, denotes laziness and a lack of creativity. Copying. Repeating. Same stuff, different characters. It doesn't appear to me that Ron has any shortage of ideas on where to take the show, but he's looking back at what made these characters who they are, what got them to where they are right now, and is letting that inspire him as he creates fresh story for them. Using the past as motivators for the present. And that, I simply consider to be "mining rich history". But perhaps we're all just exercising semantics right now and basically recycling each others argument. LOL.

Now THAT was funny, and so true.

The 40th anniversary, as I said, has me a little concerned, but I am going to be open minded, and go into it expecting an event. It's an opportunity to once again combine the past and present as a way of winking at long-time fans who saw the original storylines, and enlightening the newer fans to past stories that helped put OLTL on the map. Big moments from the past, things that stick out as milestones for OLTL, will be revisited and I'm SURE that OLTL will be poking fun at itself, and also tugging at our heartstrings. It's a celebration of what made/makes OLTL a treasure. But it's an event, and when that event is done, I'm sure they will return to the stories they've been building over the last six months and we will be able to just appreciate the event for what it was.

I think that's a reasonable expectation, and that's also what I anticipate. I generally hate (there's that word!) alternate reality stuff, but this sounds like it could be fun.

And since when did euphoria become a bad thing. I mean people do drugs to achieve this high, and I want to sustain it as long as I can. It's so nice to be able to watch and not be waiting for the axe to fall.

Edited June 23, 200817 yr by rhinohide

That's where the difference lies for me. Recycling, IMO, denotes laziness and a lack of creativity. Copying. Repeating. Same stuff, different characters. It doesn't appear to me that Ron has any shortage of ideas on where to take the show, but he's looking back at what made these characters who they are, what got them to where they are right now, and is letting that inspire him as he creates fresh story for them. Using the past as motivators for the present. And that, I simply consider to be "mining rich history". But perhaps we're all just exercising semantics right now and basically recycling each others argument. LOL.

Definitely semantics. I used the term "recycling" to merely include the examples that were given in that context. I don't necessarily think it's an accurate term in this case, more of a "if this is recycling, I don't mind" sentiment.

The only blatant recycling/rewriting that I think Ron is guilty of involves the upcoming 40th anniversary stuff, but that seems to be more in the line of an homage ... or just plain fun.

There will always be stories that ring a familiar bell, and I have to say that I agree with the people who say the true test lies in the execution and follow-through. For example, Michael Malone wrote the brilliant DID storyline in 1994-95, introducing Jean, Tori, Tommy, etc., and delving into the Victor Lord murder. Certainly, some might have said this was a redux of Viki-Niki and the secret room from 1985, but Malone made it a new and different story. Similarly, Viki discovering that Natalie is the child she didn't know she gave birth to is similar to Viki discovering Megan is the child she didn't know she gave birth to (imagine a mother popping out two kids and not remembering them ), but again, completely different stories.

I think we have already seen a lot of originality from Ron as Head Writer. Most notably, as someone already pointed out, the story of Viki in Paris, Texas. He did what no one has done since Jill Farren Phelps and Pam Long (sorry), which is to write a real, new love interest for Viki, as has long been promised. And not only that: it was an actual STORY of her own, taking place in a diner far away. And the big one for me is that it appears we may FINALLY

get a glimpse into the history of Blair's biological father

, and this may not be original from a soap point of view, but it's definitely new for OLTL viewers, and something that a lot of Blair fans have been wanting to see on screen for years.

Edited June 23, 200817 yr by 2shane8