Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread

[Bright Eyes]

I apologize if this has already been discussed but I was wondering if there was any online footage of Joan Fontaine guesting on the show as Paige Williams? If not, does anyone know what her brief story was?

Edited April 18, 2011 by Amello

[DRW50]

This has 9 short clips of her. This is the first.

Joan was an agent who represented "actress" Kimberly Harris. She appeared in a handful of episodes. She also flirted with Johnny Ryan, much to the consternation of wife Maeve.

[Soaplovers]

Probably been discussed but I was most interested in the year 1981 for Ryan's Hope since it seemed to be such an interesting year story-wise. It seemed to be broken up into 3 parts (pre-strike, strike, and post-strike).. Just wondered which part did everyone enjoy?

Looking through old youtubes, I was fascinated by episodes from 1983... most of the stories were very interesting (i.e. Rae/Charlotte/Frank, Jill running for office, Leigh Kirkland, Siobhan acting more herself again, and that cute actor playing her police partner). I always wondered how did Rae exit? Was she fired? Did she quit? Did she leave in 83 or 84? I think Rae was a great thorn in the side of the Ryan's and the episodes I saw of 1981 (pre-strike era episodes) that she was an island character along with Kim/Michael... When did she start to interact with the other characters again?

For me, the one problem Ryan's Hope seemed to have was that supporting characters left after a year or so (i.e. Nell, Reenie, Rose, etc). It would make growing attached to a show hard, at least for me.

[DRW50]

Louise Shaffer was fired in 1984. I think Rae just left town. From what I've read, which isn't much, of 1982, Rae is looking for Kimberly and baby Arley, Kimberly and the baby come back and Kimberly tries to fleece Rae, Rae's old love/Kim's father, Hollis Kirkland, returns. I'm not sure how much interaction Rae had with the others, although she was involved in the story with Pat where Pat had a near-death experience because of an explosion. I think when Labine/Mayer returned, Rae got more involved in Frank's stories again.

RH did seem to have a problem keeping outside characters, which hurt the show. I think this hurt more than the recasts, with the exception of the disastrous Mary recasts. I still never understood why Rose Alaio was written out, she was great with Jack and a breath of fresh air on a relatively stale canvas of female characters.

I am not a fan of 1981 RH.

- A year of storylines about Delia being stupid or a self-defeating schemer. The character continued her path of regression and being nothing more than a plot device. Delia was made irrelevant, and the show took one cheap shot after another at her. Making her Joe's patsy, which is only slightly more tolerable because of the easy chemistry between Randall Edwards and Roscoe Born. Too many scenes of Delia whining and shrieking as various "good" characters treat her like garbage and laugh at her. I especially hated the storyline where Delia schemed to take Faith's share of some mine Roger bought into, and poor dear Roger thought Delia was becoming "good" (ie, his sycophant). When Roger learned the truth, and also learned that the mine was worthless, he manipulated Delia into losing all of her money, which they told us she deserved, because she was so wicked. Then, just as one final sadistic kick, the mine was a big investment after all, and Faith and Roger got a ton of money. Not only was this ugly to watch, but it falsely elevated Roger and Faith to some sort of morally superior people, when they were actually both nasty and self-righteous. The years where Roger became a scolding head-shrinker made his character insufferable. Making this even more bizarre was the baffling decision to have Ron Hale and Karen Morris Gowdy play their scenes like Faith wanted to bone her brother. If they had actually gone there, then this might have been interesting, but I don't think that was the intention.

- Endless variations of scenes involving Faith verbally abusing her sister. I don't know if they were trying to act like the sweet little sister finally can't take any more, and that we weren't supposed to agree with her, just to see her pain, but I resented that history was rewritten, very important history, for this storyline. Mrs. Coleridge had never cared for Jill. This is one of the reasons Jill felt alienated from the family and sought love and approval from the Ryans, and later, from Frank. Suddenly, Faith went around claiming that Jill had ruined her happy family and poor Faith had been neglected because Mommy loved Jill best. Jill was a "thing" that had crawled into the family. Jill "stole" Frank from Faith, like Jill had taken everything from her. Never mind that Jill had taken NOTHING from Faith EVER, and that Jill had been involved with Frank for a decade, so if anything Faith "took" Frank from HER. No one bothered to correct this impression, so instead, we were treated to month after month of Faith on a tirade, Faith sitting around feeling sorry for herself, and various men being gaga over Faith as she barely had time for them. The Mari Kara story was presumably supposed to lead to a reconciliation between them but KMG's general lack of warmth and the hypocrisy of this character made me completely unsympathetic to her. The only way I ever bought KMG was as a total bitch, and the show was too scared to go down that road. The only interesting story Faith had in 1981 was her counseling of a teenage punk alcoholic, but this must have been a strike story, as it was dropped very quickly.

- More overdoses of the "Kimberly can do what she wants because Rae wasn't a mother to her" storyline, with a lot of Kim hissy fits, whining, crying, rinse and repeat. While I can see where Claire Labine was upset at how the Michael Pavel story ended, I wasn't sorry to see him go - he was a remorseless gigolo and I saw little chemistry between Michael Corbett and Kelli Maroney or Louise Shaffer. His murder was OTT and the investigation was interminable. So was Kimberly's sudden 5 month pregnancy, and the shouting matches with Kim/Seneca/Rae. There were a few good moments in here - like Kim learning to accept her baby - but mostly I remember this for that awful episode where Rae was questioned by the cops and the "Mama help me!" flashback kept playing in her head.

- Joe and Siobhan. No chemistry. Degrading. Stupid. Superfluous. Siobhan became a sniveler, and had little purpose beyond men trying to control her life. Nothing in life mattered but Joe, and her police work ended up seeming like a strange joke, as she acted so whiny and entitled. The mob stuff was sleep-inducing and very intrusive to the canvas.

- Writing out Barry Ryan when he had all the potential in the world and ties to many characters...they wrote him out about a month before his sister arrived! Great idea there. Writing out Rose when she worked so well with Jack.

I actually preferred the strike period, because it was so messy and you didn't know what to expect.

The only stories I cared for at this time were Jack's efforts to clear his name after Joe destroyed his life (even if this turned into Joe being a martyr because he had to give up Beach Blanket Siobhan), and then the soap opera story with Barbara Wilde, which was great fun until it turned into the tedious stuff about Barbara faking paralysis and the kooky hijinks of EJ Ryan.

This is the best part of 1981.

Edited April 19, 2011 by CarlD2

[Paul Raven]

April 76 SOD synopsis

Faith has had a complete mental breakdown. She left Ryan's, went to her house looking for her father and, in her bedroom, discovered Kenneth awaiting her. He is threatening to punish her when Bob and another policeman arrive. Though they promise not to hurt Kenneth, he doesn't believe them; fears they'll take him to the same kind of awful place his mother was locked away in, and to avoid this, tries to escape via the window. He loses his footing and falls to the pavement below. When Faith learns Kenneth is not dead, she wonders why her father is dead from having fallen. Faith is returned to Mary's room at the Ryan's, but is later discovered crouching in the closet, sobbing irrationally. She's had to be hospitalized.

Frank tells Jill how he admires her strength. Delia tells Jill it's all right to talk to Frank, but that's all. Jill blows up at her for being a selfish, spoiled rotten wife.

Jill later explains to Seneca that a good part of her anger with Delia is because Delia is beautiful and does absolutely nothing while she, Jill, is saddled with responsibilities and often works ten hours a day.

Seneca has returned Nell's car to Bucky and commented that Bucky was one of the best things Nell left him.

Reenie thinks Bucky is pretty great, too, and assures Nick she'll have her way with him. Reenie will leave the hospital soon to stay with Nick until she locates a place of her own. Her job is waiting at Channel R.

Mary has made a most successful debut as an on-camera newscaster at Channel R and has gone to Ryan's to celebrate.

Johnny had earlier apologized to Mary and insisted she celebrate her new career with her family. She accepted with the stipulation that Jack be included.

By the time Sam and Mary arrive, Johnny and Jack are baiting each other. Mary takes them to the kitchen to cool off, but fists fly and Jack knocks Johnny down.

Delia is not at Ryan's. At Roger's request, Delia has lied about being with her girl friend in order to get out of the house.

Ryan Baby Scalded

Delia took the baby with her to Roger's and left the baby unattended in the living room while she and Roger went to the bedroom for fun and games. Hearing the baby scream, they rush in to find he's managed to overturn an electric coffee pot and has scalded his back. Roger holds the baby under cold water, then he and Delia race to the hospital with the child.

Frank joins Delia and she tells him the accident happened at Sheila's. Everyone is so impressed that Delia applied cold water to the burned area. The doctor states that this action prevented a more serious condition and adds that the area looks worse than it is; that, barring infection, the child will be fine.

After Frank and Delia return home with the baby, Delia's guilt mounts. She feels her badness caused the accident. In bed Frank comforts her. The accident has brought them closer than they've been in months. This leads Frank to ask Delia out to dinner. She figures she'll have a busy day as she's already agreed to have lunch and love with Roger. She again uses her mythical friend Sheila as an excuse.

Maeve thinks the family should ask Sheila over for a meal. Maeve also thinks Johnny is becoming senile when he hangs a punching bag in the kitchen and she demands that he get that contraption out.

Johnny is trying to get in shape as a result of Jack's knocking the wind out of him with one punch.

Mary has packed up and moved out of Jack's, as a result of that punch. She will stay with Jill until she can find a place of her own.

Jumbo has suggested that Jack give Mary an engagement ring as a solution to his problem. Drunkenly, Jack takes this suggestion to Sister Mary Joel, who sees through his pain, and tells him she'll only concede it's a good idea if he and Mary have a short engagement, then marry.

Jack arrives at the TV station with the ring in his pocket, but Mary refuses to see him alone. She even threatens to have Sam and a burly cameraman throw Jack out.

Jack finally succeeds in getting Mary to accept his ring. Johnny and Maeve acknowledge their daughter's engagement with reluctant grace. Bob is devastated at the news and daydreams that Mary ahs chosen him instead of Jack.

Reenie accuses Nick and his friends of being involved in criminal activities. Nick denies this, but Reenie then asks why her "Uncle Wally" carries a gun. She feels it every time her "Uncle" embraces her.

Reenie, using her job as go-for as a front, has now launched her own professional crime career with Sam. She's made her first pick-up and delivery rounds and has been paid $2000 for her efforts. She's had the ball of her life and urges Sam to expand his operation. He refuses and tells her to play it cool, especially around Mary.

Mary is amazed to find Reenie working at Channel R, but admits she'd be surprised to find Reenie working anywhere. Mary doubts Reenie will be much help, but Sam assures her Reenie will "deliver the goods."

Reenie and Bucky's interest in each other is a matter of consternation to all who know them. Reenie has sought information about Bucky from Pat, who has told her that Bucky has a hang-up over his money.

Bucky and Pat have reestablished their friendship now that neither is romantically involved with Faith.

Faith is recovering nicely and feels she must see Kenneth to assure herself that he's only a poor sick creature and not a monster.

Delia Has Guilt Pangs

She feels she's a bit of a monster herself these days for carrying on with Roger while rediscovering happy lovemaking with Frank. She's so pleased with Frank's new interest in her that she's anxious to become thoroughly involved in Frank's political campaign.

Roger's hot pursuit of Delia, expressed in unexpected calls and visits, drives her to tell all to her priest. She rejects his advice to give up Roger, fearing that if she did, Frank might leave her again, and she'd have no one.

Seneca has been arraigned and his trial will soon begin.

While the entire Ryan clan makes grandiose plans for Mary and Jack to wed, Jack looks fit to be tied!! He'd never expected to get married in a month!! He tells Mary he'd like to take it slower. Little does she know just how slow he wants to take it!! Oh, he wants to marry her alright, but not just yet.

Frank and Dee continue to act like the perfect couple and Roger is very, very angry. When he tries to talk to Dee, she sends him home!! Delia is treading very thin waters.

Faith and Kenneth

Faith confronts her fears and goes to see Kenneth. She realizes now, more than ever that he is indeed a sick man. He mistakes her for his mother and tells her that Faith's "destroyer" is dead!!

Jill is forced to have it out with Seneca. He persists in trying to treat her like he used to treat Nell!! He insists in trying to tell her how to conduct her business. Well, it didn't work with Nell and it's not going to work with the fiery Jill! She warns him to let her handle his defense her way, or he can find another lawyer!! She gets to handle it her way.

Roger and Dee Exposed!!

Dee finally finds time to go and see Roger. Her attempts to console and reassure him of her love carry her all the way to the bedroom. It is there that Jill, thinking no one is home, uses the pass key to Roger's apartment, and finds them. Jill is horrified, to say the least!! While Roger gallantly attempts to defend his affair, Delia's face begins to look like a limp, wet rag. While she, too, attempts a defense, Jill can stand it no longer and leaves.

Dee later goes to Jill's office to plead with her to keep the affair a secret. Jill is much too angry and upset to give Dee an answer.

Reenie has convinced her father to fix her room up as a private apartment so that she can entertain the rich Bucky Carter.

Jack's efforts to join in the Mother's Day celebration backfire. When Jack reads a passage from the book on Irish History he gave Maeve; it turns out to be demeaning of the Irish. Maeve lashes out with uncharacteristic fury. When she calms down she realizes that John must never know. Just as she's telling Pat, Bob and the bartender not to tell John...

[DRW50]

Thanks for taking all the time to share these with us.

That Faith story was truncated because they fired Faith Catlin.

The Irish passage stuff was so silly.

[Soaplovers]

Did they fire the original Faith because they wanted to change the character from fragile to more strong-willed? The soapnet reruns are now in June 1976 era and the original Faith had her last airdate not too long ago.. the show was laying the groundwork for her becoming a more mature adult.. but the original Faith still was playing her too meekly. I'm anxious to see Nancy Barrett's brief turn as Faith plus see Catherine Hick's stint as Faith. So I can do a comparison since I've only seen the first and last Faith in action.

Plus, the first Frank isn't all that bad... he plays a very thick, one track minded guy very well. I know that I should be able to see the 2nd Frank before SoapNet goes off the air then I can do a personal comparison. I've seen the other three Frank's in play.. even though he played Frank too serious, I like the fourth Frank's portrayal (circa 1983-1985) the best so far.

[DRW50]

They wanted a more attractive Faith. They did not like the awkward/neurotic Faith.

To me Hawkins was wooden and kept tripping up on his lines. He was miscast for a charismatic and energetic figure. I also saw no chemistry with Jill, which was a problem with more than one Frank. If they'd kept him with Delia he might have worked better, as he and Ilene had more of a spark.

[safe]

Faith Catlin had been unhappy on the show, too. According to this 1981 newspaper interview, she didn't like that Faith had been in danger every Friday.

Her other comments, about how actors aren't given any responsibility or choice, and likening actors to children begin told what to do, makes me think she was better suited for directing – which she eventually did.

BTW- This piece also said she quit- and that was not true.

Faith Catlin stockpiles theater credits/1981

[DRW50]

Thanks for finding that. I guess I can see why she felt it was a bad experience. I have always wondered why the show made the decision to have her in peril with the Kenneth Castle mess - it was so rushed and seemed to come out of nowhere.

[Soaplovers]

Maybe the show was looking to change Faith's character and figured the stalker/breakdown was the way to do it to explain a recast.

Of the actresses that played Mary after Kate Mulgrew left, which was the least offensive? I read that Labine wanted to kill Mary off but the network didn't want to go that route at first. However, even though the recasts didn't work.. I think having Siobhan/Mary's sibling discourse shown on-screen and having Sibohan's husband Joe inadvertently responsible for Mary's death did drive story for quite awhile.

[DRW50]

I think many would say Mary Carney was the least offensive. Goulet was OK but she had no chemistry with anyone and was also cold and talked too fast. To me the real problem was the character - Mary was self-righteous, smug, judgmental, and tough for me to take even with Mulgrew in the role.

I think the show should have done a Jack/Siobhan/Joe triangle, or just gone with Jack/Siobhan. They said they didn't because they didn't think Jack would go with his wife's sister. Yet the awful Frankenfaith stuff was still foisted on viewers.

[DRW50]

December 1981 Rona Barrett's Daytimers.

[DRW50]

[safe]

Thanks, Carl. While reading that, I would have never guessed what his future careers would have been.

MacKenzie is a retired deputy sheriff living in Washington state. He and his wife, Jesse, have two grown children, and four grandchildren.

He's an auctioneer and does fund raising auctions these days.

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

MacKenzie Allen Fundraising Auctions