This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

1. Understood

2. Okay I understand again. I may have generalized his supporters but not quite as often as some others might do it...in fact, I am an Obama supporter myself.

3. I admitted it a while back...I guess I just did not do it here. But yes it was a lie, one I never condoned (I am not saying you said I condoned it)

She is at her best when she appears warm and friendly, not someone who is cold and calculating. That never does well for her (for some it does)...she was very amazing on Leno's show with her witty comments at times and basic passionate support on many issues.

Now, Roman, don't be saying she could run again as if the Democrats will lose in November...we are going to win this year

You know something? This win at all cost attituden has ruined political careers.

I've seen it before.

No problem at all with being confident, but I wonder.........if the shoe was on the other foot, and Obama was losing, and he made the very same arguments about delegates.......

I wonder if the sentiments in this thrtead would be consistent........or changed somehow?

so i have comp changed. i was torn between obama and clinton but now both annoy the hel out of me and i do not want either one nor do i trust either one, tho i would prefer hilary to him. all he is is a good public speaker, but he has no depth and talks in circles about nothing with never giving a plan. guess what? i know we need change. what i dont need is you saying it every 10 minutes.

so now i am all for mccain.

Be careful.

This is the same man who is proposing attacking Iran. With what troops I don't know.

Now, Mulder, what do all politicians do? Lie

It is just the effect to which they do it. Now, Hillary's lie about Bosnia could very well effect other people...I do think the bigger issue here is where she stands on the issues rather than those statements she made...plus, there was some truth to what she claimed about Bosnia but the part where she lied was when saying she dodged gunshots on the runway. She did not...HOWEVER, being that she was in a war torn country, she was definitely dodging anything that could do major harm to her, such as a gunshot wound (still on the grounds that nobody ever shot at her but that she was cautious about her surroundings)....now lying about a war the way Bush did obviously affected millions of people so that is much more disastrous.

I plan to run for public office someday and, trust me, I will lie to get there....but it won't be to the magnitude of the thieves in The White House.

One more thing...I would appreciate your vote when I do make that run

Hillary made it sound like she was under constant gunfire at the airport.

She didn't lie about part of it. IMO, she lied about the whole thing.

That is a small part of what bothered me. The biggest part? That she came off like she shouldn't have to say she was wrong for doing it, kinda like ths ame way she cupped her hand to her ear and acted like she didn't hear the questions about Mark penn when she left and airport yesterday. Reminded me of Reagan when he didn't want to answer a question, and I thought we were all sick of that crap after 7 years of Bush & Co.

Please. Hillary stated it perfectly on Leno about how the superdelegates vote with their hearts as do the people. They just merely designed the super delegate system with the Democrat party approximately 35 years ago. Since there is much controversy over its function this year, it would be a thoughtful debate at the next election to possibly abolish this idea...but it is not about stealing. It is on who they feel should get their vote, just like who the people feel deserves their vote. Think of it like the electoral college. You do have the popular vote, as we do in the primaries, but those electors also have a say in who their candidate should be....now, they are inclined to vote for who is the most popular per district (as is how regular delegates are issued) but it is not always this way with electors. After all, the electoral college has given more of its votes to the loser of the popular vote on more than one occasion (the most recent, of course, being in 2000). I do believe that both the electoral college and superdelegates ought to be eliminated.

McCain won't win anyways if he puts Condi Rice on the ticket. Nobody in the South will vote for her and she attracts nobody that matters.

And if she does get some backroom deal with these superdelegates....who do you think is going to vote for a canidate that lost the popular vote, lost the delegate vote, but convinced the big boys and girls of the party to back her? Do you think Obama's people will support her after that (And trust me.......she needs his voters if she hopes to even walk down Penn. Avenue much less get to the WH)?

It will be like the will of the people only matters when it suits her purposes........and the press will eat her alive.

And then........you can get used to saying President McCain.

Geraladine Ferraro is NOT a racist, but Jeremiah Wright sure in the hell IS!

Racism and charges of racism always get my attention because I wonder how one can vehemently defend people they don't actually know. I don't know whether Geraldine Ferraro is racist but she certainly said something that came across as racist to some people. I personally thought what she said was stupid and her explanation was stupid but I liked that she didn't back down from it because I don't like it when political correctness causes people to be dishonest about what they truly think.

I'm not sure about Jeremiah Wright either because I haven't heard the racist remarks attributed to him. I heard a snippet of what he said about Hilary Clinton never being called a specific word and I am ever so certain that he's correct in that she has not been called that word.

When it comes to black and white specifically racism is generally not equivalent on both sides and people that like to declare how some black man is just as racist as some klan member might want to consider from where the racism emanates. A black man's hatred will generally come from the oppression he's felt either through institutionalized racism or either the real physical threat. Even here in good old Southern California, there was an incident where a black family moved into a neighborhood where they were not wanted and they were subjected to a cross burning on their lawn a few years back. Who knows what else happens that doesn't make the news.

A white man generally doesn't hate black people because of any sort of oppression so what's the reason there except skin? That's primarily why it's not equivalent. I believe it's all wrong no matter what but I can understand more of where one is coming from versus the other.

McCain is now tied with both Obama&Clinton.

The Dems need to get their act together and make a choice before they completely ruin all chances of winning.

McCain is now tied with both Obama&Clinton.

The Dems need to get their act together and make a choice before they completely ruin all chances of winning.

I don't think it will happen but at this point hillary and obama are going have to work together to secure this nominee. The longer this goes on the more each other camps will not want to vote for the other and that will give the republicans the white house. So imo for the dems to get this election hillary is gonna have to be obama's vp. The longer this race goes on the more divided the obama and hillary supporters will get and neither one will be able to win without the other just to secure all the dems votes in Nov. Because sadly I hear more and more that if obama wins the nom, hillary supporters will vote for McCain or not vote at all. An to be honest I do think hillary does deserve to be at least vp, she's be in this race for the long haul and is very close in delegates to obama, I would hate to see her do all that work and she gets nothing to show for it. But it would go against everything obama has been saying about change and her campaign hasn't been all that nice to him. But I still say they are gonna need the other to win it at this point, this race has taken a turn for the worst.imo

Edited April 10, 200817 yr by EricaKane70

so now i am all for mccain.

Then you are voting for a third Bush term

Hillary made it sound like she was under constant gunfire at the airport.

That is what I am talking about here. She lied about being shot at on the tarmack but, her entire time at Bosnia, she pretty much was dodging bullets since her safety was in jeopardy by being in a warzone. It is just that it seems like nobody actually shot at her but that does not negate how she avoided gunfire

And if she does get some backroom deal with these superdelegates....who do you think is going to vote for a canidate that lost the popular vote, lost the delegate vote, but convinced the big boys and girls of the party to back her? Do you think Obama's people will support her after that (And trust me.......she needs his voters if she hopes to even walk down Penn. Avenue much less get to the WH)?

Odds are that, if she gets the nomination, she will have no choice but to put him on the ticket as VP because she needs his votes from the attraction he has with certain Republicans, African Americans, Independents. Obama can very much appeal to any frustrated voters as to why it is perfectly alright to vote for a Hillary/Obama ticket...this is not to say that his supporters should just follow everything he says 100% but that he has the power to persuade his support base on the greatness of such a ticket and get them to believe in that team.

The Dems need to make their pick and get on with it alot of people seem to be taking a look at McCain.

The Dems who don't really care if it's Obama or Clinton are sliding over to McCain because he looks like he got his stuff together and BOTH Obama and Clintons are starting to look like jokes.

The Dems should win the White House but all this in fighting is in danger of costing them the big prize once agian an dif McCain wins the Country is in huge trouble!

The Dems need someone to be willing to give up power in order to save the Party and win the white House.

However no one seems to be willing to make a deal.

Then you are voting for a third Bush term

Please help me to keep up. I believe that you've previously stated that McCain would have a hard time with Republicans because he is not conservative enough (and I apologize in advance if it wasn't you). If McCain is not "Republican" enough (for lack of a better term) than how can he be another Bush? Same party, different breed altogether. I don't care if they share some similar viewpoints since he may even share some similar viewpoints with the more conservative Democrat. I know people who consider themselves Democrats who aren't pro-abortion among other things.

That is what I am talking about here. She lied about being shot at on the tarmack but, her entire time at Bosnia, she pretty much was dodging bullets since her safety was in jeopardy by being in a warzone. It is just that it seems like nobody actually shot at her but that does not negate how she avoided gunfire

This is like a little game of how much of a lie did she tell? She went there with some celebrities and no one is making a big deal out of their being in a war zone. There are kids who live in neighborhoods here in America, who literally dodge bullets on a regular basis. A soldier had to be granted special leave to return to Los Angeles to bury her 17 year old son who was killed by a gang member while she was off fighting for her country and a better life for that son. I doubt that the tarmac story would mean anything to people who have these sort of experiences or have had them. How it's worded makes no difference since it is what it is and the point is more that she said she "misspoke" about something that should have been traumatic to her if it were true.

Odds are that, if she gets the nomination, she will have no choice but to put him on the ticket as VP because she needs his votes from the attraction he has with certain Republicans, African Americans, Independents. Obama can very much appeal to any frustrated voters as to why it is perfectly alright to vote for a Hillary/Obama ticket...this is not to say that his supporters should just follow everything he says 100% but that he has the power to persuade his support base on the greatness of such a ticket and get them to believe in that team.

If he attracts certain Republicans which I wonder about and he's running for vp there goes that attraction. The only voters that will become easily interchangeable are avid Democrats who ultimately just want a Democrat in office. The people who won't be persuaded are people who like to use logic and are adamant about it (excluding avid Democrats who like to use logic). If she says that Obama is not ready to be president then he's not ready to be vp either since he could be called upon to fill in at any time. If she's telling super delegates that they need to vote for her because he can't be elected (and I'd love to hear what was used as the reason), then why would someone using logic find it logical to vote for her if he's on the ticket? Why wouldn't people reject the notion of her using him to try to win? I know if I wanted him for president then I wouldn't be okay with his running as second to her. Obama cannot easily appeal to any frustrated voter as to why it's perfectly alright to vote for a Hilary/Obama ticket since it isn't perfectly alright. He'll be selling out hope and change for a backseat to the same old story and that's not what those hopeful, change seeking supporters of his signed up for.

I'm with Nancy Pelosi in that the two of them won't be on the same ticket.

Mulder, question.

If GF had said, being an Obama supporter, that the only reason why Hillary has had any success is becuase she's a woman........would that be sexist?

All I have said, is that she has a HUGE credibility problem. It's not just me saying it. There are her own peoplewho back her that cringe when she tells a story, because they don't know if it's true or not.

If I give you Obama's bad points, and I have........why is it hard for you to give up the fact that Hillary and her campaign are screwing up?

I want to give her a chance, but ignoring what they BOTHG are doing doesn't show good politics.

That's all I'm saying now, and all I have said since I starting posting in here.

I do see Hillary's bad points. I do think she's got some very poor campaign runners.

If Hillary's team hadn't screwed up over and over and over agian she would have won this thing a longtime ago.

Now all that's left for the Clintons to do is try and steal this thing and if they do McCain wins.

In the Clintons minds they think they can steal this thing and everone will fall in line behind her it's not going to happen.

Heck if Obama wins he's going to have his work cut out for him getting out the female vote.

This thing has just gone on too long for there not to be major fallout no matter who wins.

Now, Mulder, what do all politicians do? Lie

It is just the effect to which they do it. Now, Hillary's lie about Bosnia could very well effect other people...I do think the bigger issue here is where she stands on the issues rather than those statements she made...plus, there was some truth to what she claimed about Bosnia but the part where she lied was when saying she dodged gunshots on the runway. She did not...HOWEVER, being that she was in a war torn country, she was definitely dodging anything that could do major harm to her, such as a gunshot wound (still on the grounds that nobody ever shot at her but that she was cautious about her surroundings)....now lying about a war the way Bush did obviously affected millions of people so that is much more disastrous.

I plan to run for public office someday and, trust me, I will lie to get there....but it won't be to the magnitude of the thieves in The White House.

One more thing...I would appreciate your vote when I do make that run

True all politicians lie true that. I'll vote for you.

so i have comp changed. i was torn between obama and clinton but now both annoy the hel out of me and i do not want either one nor do i trust either one, tho i would prefer hilary to him. all he is is a good public speaker, but he has no depth and talks in circles about nothing with never giving a plan. guess what? i know we need change. what i dont need is you saying it every 10 minutes.

so now i am all for mccain.

So you're voting for a worse version of George W. Bush. What a HUGE mistake.

Be careful.

This is the same man who is proposing attacking Iran. With what troops I don't know.

Exactly Roman! Agreed! I think we Hillary and Obama supporters can team up to kick McCain & Rice's asses!

I'm gonna quit arguing and bitching about Obama and his fierce supporters and I'm quitting being so fierce over Hillary. I get your points Roman and agree that Hillary probably did just lie about Bosnia, but I still think her decision was based on lack of sleep and being tired. But she was wrong to do so and her advisers should have stopped her from doing so. I like Obama.

Edited April 11, 200817 yr by Mulder

Please help me to keep up. I believe that you've previously stated that McCain would have a hard time with Republicans because he is not conservative enough (and I apologize in advance if it wasn't you).

Nope I never said the above.....aside from his position on stem cell research and maybe torture (he says he is anti torture. If so, why did he vote against making waterboarding illegal?), he is no different from Bush