This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

Alright. I am willing to move on...if you all are...

You started this bullshit!

We've been trying to move on all day!

You started this bullshit!

We've been trying to move on all day!

Ahh...but every time you make a comment, I have a response...so on and on we go....

And now, back to something substansive, instead of talking about birth certificate bullshit:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...e-for-congress/

Democrats widen lead in battle for Congress

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...-palin-meeting/

McCain camp tries to keep reporters out of Palin meetings

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...-tax-loopholes/

Ad Biden called 'terrible' only ran six times

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...-ran-six-times/

Ad Biden called 'terrible' only ran six times

It shouldn't have ran once, IMO.

Edited September 23, 200817 yr by Roman

Which part has been debunked? The photo of his school registry was authenticated by the AP. It's an official document in their eyes.

No of course not. It would not be Obama's fault if his mother's second husband adopted him in Indonesia and legalized him as Barry Soetoro and as an Indonesian.

But, this would disqualify him from being president.

I'll go a little further with you on this because I'm having one of those days where I can dabble in the exremely insignifcant stuff.

I think the birth certificate aspect has been debunked. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff and from what you have posted, it does not sound as if he has any solid proof that Obama was not born in Honolulu, Hawaii.

Besides the school registration (which is not proof) what proof exists that Obama was adopted by his stepfather? What proof exists that Obama's mother obtained Indonesian citizenship for him? What proof exists that Barack Obama's name was legally changed? What are the requirements for registration in the school he attended in Indonesia? And if you cannot prove that Obama wasn't born in the U.S., how do you know whether or not he has dual citizenship?

What are you unsure of being authentic? Do you not feel the lawsuit against Obama is real? Do you think it is a hoax or something?

I think if McCain was scheduled to testify tomorrow in PA, on 3 counts of charges fraud, constitutional violations, and dual citizenship...it would be HUGE news...

If McCain were scheduled to testify in the same type of friviolous lawsuit, what would make it news and why would McCain need to testify anyway? Anyone can file a lawsuit against you and you are required to file an answer within a specified period of time. A lawsuit doesn't make anything factual. The reason no one sees this as a legitimate issue is not the lawsuit but the basis for it. If there were something to it then it would receive media coverage and then it would be masquerading as an issue. Now it's nothing.

The Obama isn't an American thing is just total garbage.

You know the ad that Biden criticized was garbage. Several of us said that. Of course, many of McCain's ads have been garbage and the McCain garbage has been far stinker than an ad making fun of McCain because he can't use the internet. I'm glad Obama has fought back, but I'm ready now for him to return to the issues, The nasty ads are backfiring on McCain in my opinion, and I think they are going to start backfiring on Obama too.

As far as Biden saying it, on the one hand I think it proves that Biden is a loose cannon and I really wish he would know the difference between what belongs on television and what would be better kept at the kitchen table. I guess it is a little refreshing that Obama does trust Biden enough to not put him on a leash. On the other hand, Biden should really be more disciplined. Obviously the fact that the ad only ran six times reflects that the campaign leaders probably backed off of it as quick as it appeared.

The Obama isn't an American thing is just total garbage.

You know the ad that Biden criticized was garbage. Several of us said that. Of course, many of McCain's ads have been garbage and the McCain garbage has been far stinker than an ad making fun of McCain because he can't use the internet. I'm glad Obama has fought back, but I'm ready now for him to return to the issues, The nasty ads are backfiring on McCain in my opinion, and I think they are going to start backfiring on Obama too.

As far as Biden saying it, on the one hand I think it proves that Biden is a loose cannon and I really wish he would know the difference between what belongs on television and what would be better kept at the kitchen table. I guess it is a little refreshing that Obama does trust Biden enough to not put him on a leash. On the other hand, Biden should really be more disciplined. Obviously the fact that the ad only ran six times reflects that the campaign leaders probably backed off of it as quick as it appeared.

I agree with everything you have written here, Jess.

I would add that it isn't just Biden that is undisciplined, though... I think the Obama campaign is stumbling big time. And I think that some dark days are ahead for the campaign. I just have this feeling that there is some dirt out there and someone has it, ready to drop it in October...

I'll go a little further with you on this because I'm having one of those days where I can dabble in the exremely insignifcant stuff.

I think the birth certificate aspect has been debunked. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff and from what you have posted, it does not sound as if he has any solid proof that Obama was not born in Honolulu, Hawaii.

Besides the school registration (which is not proof) what proof exists that Obama was adopted by his stepfather? What proof exists that Obama's mother obtained Indonesian citizenship for him? What proof exists that Barack Obama's name was legally changed? What are the requirements for registration in the school he attended in Indonesia? And if you cannot prove that Obama wasn't born in the U.S., how do you know whether or not he has dual citizenship?

I'll make this my last comment on this subject, because it seems everyone is in agreement that this is bullshit or insignificant..

I don't know what the exact proof is that Berg plans to stipulate in court.

You're right in that the burden of proof is on the plantiff, and evidently the judge seeing this case felt that the evidence was measurable enough to constitute a trial. The judge does have the authority to deny any motions or requests for trial.

If McCain were scheduled to testify in the same type of friviolous lawsuit, what would make it news and why would McCain need to testify anyway? Anyone can file a lawsuit against you and you are required to file an answer within a specified period of time. A lawsuit doesn't make anything factual. The reason no one sees this as a legitimate issue is not the lawsuit but the basis for it. If there were something to it then it would receive media coverage and then it would be masquerading as an issue. Now it's nothing.

You're probably right. As I said before, I don't know what to believe yet. I think time will tell.

False accusations or not, I am still interested in Obama's testimony and the judgement...This could erupt into a huge story if the judge wants to become famous...

This tells you how desperate some of these people are. If the only thing some of them can now push is "Guess what?! That BLACK MAN is not American!!!" then, when November 5th hits and JM is headed back to the senate.......they better not bitch.

All the financial crap going on, two wars this country is dealing with, and the only thing some want to talk about is this bullshit?!

Maybe we should start mentioning how JM wasn't born in the States. I'm sorry. That was wrong. We would then be accused of not staying on the issues.

What bullshit.

Roman, I think you may have missed the posts I made earlier in the day today..I posted an article that covered the financial crisis, and the Democrat's connection.

What are your thoughts on that topic?

I dont want to be included with the "those that can only push..the black man is not American" crowd..

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by Casey008

I'll post it again for ya..

I found an interesting read on the financial crisis and its link to the Dems. from Bloomberg.com

Link to article..

Now how does Barack Obama fit into this picture? Do the words Community Reinvestment Act and ACORN come to mind? How about the fact that Obama worked as a community organizer for ACORN. Yesterday I heard some quotes on the radio from bank managers and their interaction with so-called community groups. The bank employees acknowledged the harassment tactics on banks from community groups aimed at getting them to make more loans to "unqualified" low-income buyers. One example was that they would make it difficult to put in something as simple as an ATM in a community, unless the bank made loans more available to "unqualified" low-income borrowers.

Here's a poll out this morning saying Obama is still having problems convincing HRC voters to go with him

Obama struggling to win Clinton voters

A couple of other things. I don't understand someone criticizing what we are discussing in this thread (same sex marriage, abortion, etc). If you don't like the discussion topic, either change it or leave. It doesn't seem to me that any one topic has dominated this thread (well, maybe the tax issue) and most people here will discuss whatever someone brings up. So stop with the criticism already. Ugh.

I can only assume this post is talking about me, since it addresses all of the items I addressed in a previous post. If not, I apologize.

Tone is so hard to "read" on a message board. The "we" talking about same sex marriage and abortion is "we," as a nation, not "we" on this chatboard. For the most part, I think we stay out of the muck here. However, in the public at large, people are voting on items that are inconsequential in the long run.

That's it! I object!

To what, I'm not sure. But I object!!

"I think we're going to be up very late counting votes," Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., told a kettle of lawyers Tuesday night at a fundraiser for the Democratic Victory Fund hosted by the American Association of Justice in Washington, D.C. "And so, your help means a big deal. The last help we need you for, is you're the best legal minds in the country. We're going to need you going into election time, because we're going to mobilize thousands of lawyers to make sure they don't steal another election."

"He has never, never, never, never, never, never, never shared the values set that you share," Biden said. "He's an honorable, decent man, but John McCain truly believes, truly believes that you are corporate America's problem," he said to the trial lawyers. "And thank God you are."

Biden said that he's "done more than any other senator combined" for trial lawyers.

"There are two people -- you've heard me say it before -- two groups that stand between us and the barbarians at the gate," Biden said. "It's you and organized labor. That's it. That is it. So, mark my words, mark my words, if we lose this election, you are going to continue to see a continuation of the onslaught on everything we care about. For real. For real. So, I'm not only thanking you for your help. I would think you're all absolutely brain-dead if you didn't help. And I mean it."

>>sigh<< OMG, will somebody shut this jackass up already!!!

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by GoldenDogs

Joe Biden continued his one-man Gaffemaster routine last night while being interviewed by Katie Couric at CBS. He attempted to discuss real leadership in the face of financial catastrophe, and reached back to the brilliant example of FDR and his televised speeches during the 1929 stock-market crash.

“When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn’t just talk about the princes of greed,” Biden told Couric. “He said, ‘Look, here’s what happened.’”

How ignorant is this statement? Let me count the ways:

Franklin Roosevelt didn’t become president in 1929 during the crash. He won the 1932 election and took office in 1933, largely because of the 1929 crash and the incompetent protectionist policies that transformed it into a Great Depression.

If FDR and President Herbert Hoover didn’t talk about the “princes of greed” in 1929, by the time FDR took over, that kind of populist rhetoric had certainly taken root. FDR greatly escalated the scope of federal government to institute the kind of redistributionism that Obama and Biden now champion.

If Hoover or FDR appeared on television in 1929 or even 1933, only a few hundred people would have seen it. Television was still an experimental medium and wouldn’t be introduced to the public for at least another decade.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/23/bide...the-1929-crash/

Roman, I think you may have missed the posts I made earlier in the day today..I posted an article that covered the financial crisis, and the Democrat's connection.

What are your thoughts on that topic?

I dont want to be included with the "those that can only push..the black man is not American" crowd..

Then.....

1. Why did you push that BS as hard as you did?

2. I have posted, in several posts, that the Repubs. AND Dems are to blame for this. Maybe you were alittle busy and didn't see that.

And who do YOU feel is to blame for this?

Please answer that question for me. Thanks.

McCain Loses His Head

Tuesday, September 23, 2008; Page A21

"The queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. 'Off with his head!' she said without even looking around."

This Story

-- "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"

Under the pressure of the financial crisis, one presidential candidate is behaving like a flustered rookie playing in a league too high. It is not Barack Obama.

Channeling his inner Queen of Hearts, John McCain furiously, and apparently without even looking around at facts, said Chris Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, should be decapitated. This childish reflex provoked the Wall Street Journal to editorialize that "McCain untethered" -- disconnected from knowledge and principle -- had made a "false and deeply unfair" attack on Cox that was "unpresidential" and demonstrated that McCain "doesn't understand what's happening on Wall Street any better than Barack Obama does."

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To read the Journal's details about the depths of McCain's shallowness on the subject of Cox's chairmanship, see "McCain's Scapegoat" (Sept. 19). Then consider McCain's characteristic accusation that Cox "has betrayed the public's trust."

Perhaps an old antagonism is involved in McCain's fact-free slander. His most conspicuous economic adviser is Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who previously headed the Congressional Budget Office. There he was an impediment to conservatives, including then-Rep. Cox, who, as chairman of the Republican Policy Committee, persistently tried and generally failed to enlist CBO support for "dynamic scoring" that would estimate the economic growth effects of proposed tax cuts.

In any case, McCain's smear -- that Cox "betrayed the public's trust" -- is a harbinger of a McCain presidency. For McCain, politics is always operatic, pitting people who agree with him against those who are "corrupt" or "betray the public's trust," two categories that seem to be exhaustive -- there are no other people. McCain's Manichaean worldview drove him to his signature legislative achievement, the McCain-Feingold law's restrictions on campaigning. Today, his campaign is creatively finding interstices in lws intended to restrict campaign giving and spending. (For details, see The Post of Sept. 17; and the New York Times of Sept. 19.)

By a Gresham's Law of political discourse, McCain's Queen of Hearts intervention in the opaque financial crisis overshadowed a solid conservative complaint from the Republican Study Committee, chaired by Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas. In a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, the RSC decried the improvised torrent of bailouts as a "dangerous and unmistakable precedent for the federal government both to be looked to and indeed relied upon to save private sector companies from the consequences of their poor economic decisions." This letter, listing just $650 billion of the perhaps more than $1 trillion in new federal exposures to risk, was sent while McCain's campaign, characteristically substituting vehemence for coherence, was airing an ad warning that Obama favors "massive government, billions in spending increases."

The political left always aims to expand the permeation of economic life by politics. Today, the efficient means to that end is government control of capital. So, is not McCain's party now conducting the most leftist administration in American history? The New Deal never acted so precipitously on such a scale. Treasury Secretary Paulson, asked about conservative complaints that his rescue program amounts to socialism, said, essentially: This is not socialism, this is necessary. That non sequitur might be politically necessary, but remember that government control of capital is government control of capitalism. Does McCain have qualms about this, or only quarrels?

On "60 Minutes" Sunday evening, McCain, saying "this may sound a little unusual," said that he would like to replace Cox with Andrew Cuomo, the Democratic attorney general of New York who is the son of former governor Mario Cuomo. McCain explained that Cuomo has "respect" and "prestige" and could "lend some bipartisanship." Conservatives have been warned.

Conservatives who insist that electing McCain is crucial usually start, and increasingly end, by saying he would make excellent judicial selections. But the more one sees of his impulsive, intensely personal reactions to people and events, the less confidence one has that he would select judges by calm reflection and clear principles, having neither patience nor aptitude for either.

It is arguable that, because of his inexperience, Obama is not ready for the presidency. It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. Unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed?