This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

I'm not generalizing and saying ALL teachers are fine. I'm just posing the question, where does the "blaim" go after the teachers? Or does it ever get off of them?

I didn't mean to imply you were generalizing, but I'm getting the impression from your posts on this topic that you are basing the fact that your high school teachers were "fine;" therefore, it must be the students and parents. Surely blame is to be dealt all the way around, but define "fine."

I'm wondering how 2001 was worse than what we're in now...

BC still gets blamed for that. Funny how GWB won't take responsibilty for the current financial crisis, even though the RP was in power for 6 of the last 7 years.

And he didn't veto one spending bill during that time.

Also, voters aren't going to go to the polls remembering that Clinton may or may not have contributed to the 2001 problem. They're going knowing that we've had GWB for 7 years.

I truly believe that. I think when Americans are faced with a tough decision, we always make the right choice.

GWB has kept our heads above water through, the mortgage crisis, 9/11, the 2001 recession, the war, and highly exorbidant oil prices.

Edited September 19, 200817 yr by Casey008

Our GDP was negative for 3 straight quarters and unemployment was higher by far than it is now.

Our economy is stronger now than it was then...and the current economy is faced with a mortgage crisis, outrageous oil prices, and a war...

With the markets in the condition they are now, there is no way the economy is strong.

I don't know what to think one way or the other. All I keep hearing are people telling us what he thinks instead of actually providing proof.

Yes.

Wasn't he the president who left us with a $230 billion surplus?

Ahh, but Roman... we may learn some new things about Clinton's reign of prosperity. There are whispers that somewhere in the Clinton era are roots to the current mortgage and loan crisis. I have learned that it was during Clinton's rule that certain regulations were relaxed to encourage home ownership by those who ordinarily wouldn't qualify. Of course, "record home ownership" makes a President look good, you see, so Bush foolishly carried on with certain policies Clinton initiated... and now we're all paying the price.

I haven't done any hardcore research on this, but I suspect we'll learn something more soon about this, especially with the blame game flaring up over all of this in Washington.

Our GDP was negative for 3 straight quarters and unemployment was higher by far than it is now.

Our economy is stronger now than it was then...and the current economy is faced with a mortgage crisis, outrageous oil prices, and a war...

The department of labor is saying that the unemployment in 2001 was 4.7. And that in 2007 that number is 4.6. That's hardly higher by far. And the number has only risen this year. The highest it has been in the Bush years (2008 not included) was in 2003, which was 6.0.

Edited September 19, 200817 yr by bandbfan

The department of labor is saying that the unemployment in 2001 was 4.7. And that in 2007 that number is 4.6. That's hardly higher by far. And the number has only risen this year.

Check 2002 and 2003, these were the years effected by the '01 recession.

Edited September 19, 200817 yr by Casey008

Ahh, but Roman... we may learn some new things about Clinton's reign of prosperity. There are whispers that somewhere in the Clinton era are roots to the current mortgage and loan crisis. I have learned that it was during Clinton's rule that certain regulations were relaxed to encourage home ownership by those who ordinarily wouldn't qualify. Of course, "record home ownership" makes a President look good, you see, so Bush foolishly carried on with certain policies Clinton initiated... and now we're all paying the price.

I haven't done any hardcore research on this, but I suspect we'll learn something more soon about this, especially with the blame game flaring up over all of this in Washington.

When you do some.....get back with me, and provide links please. Thanks.

I didn't mean to imply you were generalizing, but I'm getting the impression from your posts on this topic that you are basing the fact that your high school teachers were "fine;" therefore, it must be the students and parents. Surely blame is to be dealt all the way around, but define "fine."

I'm saying that it is the easy way out to blaim teachers. Parents don't want to take responsibilty for what they aren't doing.

IMO, blaiming teachers is like suing doctors for mal-practice. WAY too widespread. There are legitimate cases where teachers are horrible and kids do suffer. But they're being made into the scape-goat no matter what the actual situation is.

Check 2002 and 2003, these were the years effected by the '01 recession.

Ok....2003 was 6%. We're at 5.7% now. Do you think it's going to go down from here?

Edited September 19, 200817 yr by bandbfan

Ahh, but Roman... we may learn some new things about Clinton's reign of prosperity. There are whispers that somewhere in the Clinton era are roots to the current mortgage and loan crisis. I have learned that it was during Clinton's rule that certain regulations were relaxed to encourage home ownership by those who ordinarily wouldn't qualify. Of course, "record home ownership" makes a President look good, you see, so Bush foolishly carried on with certain policies Clinton initiated... and now we're all paying the price.

I haven't done any hardcore research on this, but I suspect we'll learn something more soon about this, especially with the blame game flaring up over all of this in Washington.

I have posted several links in reference to this...I'll be happy to link them again for you Roman.

Clinton's "Community Reinvestment Act"---Subprime Mortgage Crisis

The Democrats, under Clinton, strengthened a government-created monster called the "Community Reinvestment Act." This law was then used by "activists" and "community organizers" (like Obama?) to coerce lending institutions to make these bad loans ... millions of them.

Edited September 19, 200817 yr by Casey008

Assume is the right word, bandb... because nobody, not even Barry H., could possibly know what exactly is "age appropriate" -- because the bill failed to spell it out. The sex education curriculum was intended for grade 6-12... there was no curriculum designed for children as young as 4 or 5 years old. Barry H. and his bill left the interpretation of what was age appropriate to the community (non-certificated, not trained in the field) and school board members (likely non-certificated, not trained in the field).

This was a disaster doomed to failure because state government CANNOT author curriculum standards. They're not trained to do it... Barry H. is not trained to do it... he had no business being a back-seat school administrator! That has been the problem with the legislature here in my home state of California... and it is the problem liberals and conservatives alike have with No Child Left Behind -- government has no business in the classroom... PERIOD.

Why is he Barry H. now? Where has the H. come from?

And for that matter, you've been calling him Barry all through this thread; it's condescending. Would you mind if we called your guy Johnny? Or your veep contender Sarah Louise? I wouldn't dare do that, because I am not familiar enough with the man nor woman to address him or her as such. I would hope that you could afford the other side the same amount of respect. NO ONE, in this entire campaign season, that I have heard from has addressed Barack Obama as Barry but you. It's not funny nor cute. I respectfully ask that you cease this tactic within this thread.

P.S. and a snide "BaRACK Obama" would not suffice either.

With the markets in the condition they are now, there is no way the economy is strong.

I dunno, Redd... Things haven't collapsed. Think about it... we've been treading on shaky ground since 9/11. We haven't exactly become a third world country in the 7 years since... the stock market actually rallied today, despite the disastrous week. By defining the economy as strong, I would say that this suggests it has weathered a LOT OF CRAP for a good long while now and people are actually debating whether or not we're really in a recession.

I think that speaks volumes about the strength and hardiness of our economy. It's diversified investments, I tell ya.... that's it! LOL...

I would call the economy dangerously soft... I do know people who have been laid off from jobs. The derailed real estate market... the mortgage and loan disaster... These things breaking now have nothing to do with Bush's economic policies. He didn't qualify people for loans that shouldn't have so much as set foot in the lender's office... greedy realtors, etc. drove the housing boom that has went bust.

I dunno... I'm not a huge W supporter by any stretch. I'm angry at him... disappointed... but I don't blame him for what's going on right now financially...

Why is he Barry H. now? Where has the H. come from?

And for that matter, you've been calling him Barry all through this thread; it's condescending. Would you mind if we called your guy Johnny? Or your veep contender Sarah Louise? I wouldn't dare do that, because I am not familiar enough with the man nor woman to address him or her as such. I would hope that you could afford the other side the same amount of respect. NO ONE, in this entire campaign season, that I have heard from has addressed Barack Obama as Barry but you. It's not funny nor cute. I respectfully ask that you cease this tactic within this thread.

P.S. and a snide "BaRACK Obama" would not suffice either.

I'm also kind of put off by this. And the H is implying Hussein. Are we STILL trying to connect him to the muslim religion?

I dunno, Redd... Things haven't collapsed. Think about it... we've been treading on shaky ground since 9/11. We haven't exactly become a third world country in the 7 years since... the stock market actually rallied today, despite the disastrous week. By defining the economy as strong, I would say that this suggests it has weathered a LOT OF CRAP for a good long while now and people are actually debating whether or not we're really in a recession.

I would read nothing into what the market did today, as many financial experts have talked about. The market has done this a lot, dropping big time, and then rallying, only to drop again.

When you do some.....get back with me, and provide links please. Thanks.

Ahhhh... some links for the King of Links!