This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

Obama admits that when he first started he didn't think he would win and he was shotting for VP but that was very early on once he was in he was in it to win.

However if Hilary had went to him anytime during the fall and promised he VP he would have took it and ended his run.

When did he admit that he was shooting for VP? I'm curious because I find it hard to imagine any candidate saying that he/she didn't think he/she would win until their candidacy actually ended. It's kind of an odd thing to do because in this case it's saying that he was only campaigning all along to be VP and if that's the case, he can probably still work out a deal with Hilary for the VP slot and end it now.

He never said he was shotting for VP he did admit that he was a long shot to win.

Until he started beating them the Clintons were never going to give him VP because they thought a they couldn't win with him as VP.

that was way back in the fall and why would he take VP now that he's won , he's not going to even take Hilary as VP.

My whole point is that the Clintons could have either promised Obama VP not to run or crushed him like they could have at the start of the race.

My Point is that the Clintons biggest mistake is not stopping Obama from running or taking him out early on.

Now it's to late unless thye can pull off something very sneaky the Clintons are TOAST!

Edited May 19, 200817 yr by Southofnowhere

You know, this should be a new soap opera......

"As The Math Changes."

Now, the states with cauceses don't count because they are too small........and didn't go for her.

I wonder if she realizes that she is insulting everyone who lives in the states she didn't win, saying that their votes and states don't count because she didn't win them?

Interesting.

From The Washington Post:

Clinton-Obama Grudges Linger For Some Voters

By Krissah Williams

Washington Post Staff Writer

Monday, May 19, 2008; Page A01

Lifelong Democrat Kathleen Cowley watches with disdain as huge crowds hang on Sen. Barack Obama's every word. She dismisses Obama's "intolerable logic." She turns the channel on pundits who chalk up Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's primary victories to little more than racism. And she doesn't much care for the notion that while Obama is fresh and inspiring, Clinton is, by implication, old and mean.

"There's just been an attitude that if you aren't voting for Barack Obama, then you're a racist," said Cowley, 49, a mother of four from Massachusetts who has vowed to never back the senator from Illinois. "I just find that intolerable. I feel like when the members of the media talk about how [Obama's supporters] would react, they say, 'Well, we can't take the vote away from African Americans.' Well, excuse me, there's a higher percentage of women."

A Democratic race that a couple of months ago was celebrated as a march toward history -- the chance to nominate the nation's first woman or African American as a major-party candidate -- threatens to leave lingering bitterness, especially among Clinton supporters, whose candidate is running out of ways to win.

Some women, like Cowley, complain that Clinton has been disrespected and mistreated by the media and the political establishment. Many see Obama as equally condescending, dismissing Clinton's foreign policy role as first lady, pulling out her chair for her at debates and suggesting offhand during one debate that she was "likable enough."

"The sexist crap that comes out of people's mouths is really scary to me," said Amilyn Lanning, 38, a Zionsville, Pa., voter who supported Clinton in last month's primary. "There's a lot of the b-word being thrown about, even in jest by comedians. There's a lot of comments made about her pantsuits, and the way she dresses. There's a viciousness."

With equal ire, many African Americans complain about Clinton's negativity and have accused her camp of using Obama's race against him. Her comment that his "support among working, hardworking Americans, white Americans, is weakening again" was just the latest in a series of over-the-line comments, some said.

And many among the legions of young voters who have flocked to Obama say their enthusiasm is more about him than about the Democratic Party and it would not necessarily transfer to Clinton if she won the nomination. In Indiana, about six in 10 Obama voters under age 30 said they will be dissatisfied if Clinton is the nominee and about half said the same in North Carolina, according to exit polls.

Nationally, about a quarter of Clinton supporters in a Washington Post-ABC News poll said that if she loses they will ditch the Democratic Party and Obama for Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.). A similar number of Obama backers said they will pick the Republican this fall if Clinton becomes the nominee. In both Indiana and North Carolina, majorities of African American voters said they will be unhappy if Clinton is at the top of the ticket.

Acutely aware of these dynamics, the campaigns have sought to balance tactics against tact, so that the rift between the two Democrats -- and their backers -- doesn't grow so wide that the winner can't pull the party back together. Since the May 6 contests in Indiana and North Carolina, Obama has tried to ease much of the animosity by turning his attention to McCain, highlighting differences with Clinton only in response to voters or the news media. Clinton has also shifted some of her strategy, running positive ads in West Virginia rather than the negative ones she aired in previous states.

Put together, Clinton's coalition of women and working-class white voters along with Obama's alliance of African Americans and young voters could be a potentially unstoppable Democratic force in the fall. But, at least for now, many on both sides said they have been too put off and have become too embittered to pull together for the party if their candidate isn't on the ballot.

To Veronica Tonay, 48, a psychology professor at the University of California at Santa Cruz and a Clinton supporter, Obama has become a pop star, the contestant on "American Idol" who wins votes because he's cute, while the best singer is eliminated.

"We are electing the leader of the free world, and that person has a finger on the nuclear launch code," she said. "It's not about likability." Her stance was cemented when a young woman in one of her classes declared that she wouldn't vote for Clinton because "she is not a beautiful woman."

If Obama is the nominee, Tonay said, McCain will be just fine with her. "In the end, I won't vote for Obama because I don't know who he is, and I don't trust him," she said. "If McCain gets in, he would have a weak presidency, and we would have a Democratic Congress anyway. Obama could do more damage."

Divisive primary fights followed by a period of kissing and making up are something of a ritual in presidential campaigns. It happened in 1860, when Abraham Lincoln brought his three challengers for the Republican nomination into his Cabinet. One hundred years later, John F. Kennedy won the Democratic nomination and avoided an intraparty feud by picking Lyndon B. Johnson as his running mate, though in the late stages of the primaries they had been fierce rivals.

In this year's Republican race, former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney became an active supporter of McCain after the two campaigned against each other with open antipathy. Romney is now thought to have an outside chance of being McCain's running mate.

But the Obama-Clinton fight has gone on so long and the ill will has become so intense that even if the candidates can heal the party, as both have vowed to do, they will have to spend critical campaign time dealing with those wounds rather than taking on McCain.

"You can't afford to leak away all of these Democrats come November," said David Paleologos, director of the Suffolk University Political Research Center in Boston. The Democratic nominee "will have to spend weeks solidifying the base," he said. ". . . Now you're cutting into the time you have to begin making the case to independents, because first you've got to take care of business at home."

Patricia Sparrow, 53, said there's nothing Clinton could do to win her over. She changed her registration from Republican to Democrat this year to cast her ballot for Obama after her son started talking about him. But she said a Clinton-McCain matchup in November would send her back to her old party -- even though she disagrees with McCain's position on Iraq -- because she finds Clinton so divisive.

"With Hillary Clinton, it's politics as usual -- old-school backbiting. I have no use for [her]," said Sparrow, who runs a soup kitchen near her home in Norfolk, Mass. "I would probably vote for McCain even though I don't want to. . . . I would hope he would be swayed by public opinion on the war."

There may not be enough time to win over Cowley, who calls Clinton "brilliant" and has spent two hours a day for the last three months calling voters to talk about Clinton's health-care plan, her experience and her plan to end the war in Iraq.

"In my heart I just can't bring myself to [vote for Obama], and I feel like a schlep," she said. "I'm not going to be voting for him, and it irritates me. Nobody's concerned about the women. I don't think I can vote for McCain. I guess I'll have to sit it out."

He never said he was shotting for VP he did admit that he was a long shot to win.

Until he started beating them the Clintons were never going to give him VP because they thought a they couldn't win with him as VP.

that was way back in the fall and why would he take VP now that he's won , he's not going to even take Hilary as VP.

My whole point is that the Clintons could have either promised Obama VP not to run or crushed him like they could have at the start of the race.

My Point is that the Clintons biggest mistake is not stopping Obama from running or taking him out early on.

Now it's to late unless thye can pull off something very sneaky the Clintons are TOAST!

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking perhaps that I was missing the boat on what you were saying and that maybe this had to do with how HC was basically declared the winner early on and the rest were long shots. I could see any of them saying that if they couldn't make it for president then maybe they could be VP.

I'm not sure that the Clintons could have crushed him early on because of the tactics that they chose to employ once they started taking him seriously. I'm not sure that they would have had a strategy to deal with him then as they don't have one now except the divisiveness. I think their biggest mistakes have been not running a tight campaign as well as the manner in which they've conducted themselves.

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking perhaps that I was missing the boat on what you were saying and that maybe this had to do with how HC was basically declared the winner early on and the rest were long shots. I could see any of them saying that if they couldn't make it for president then maybe they could be VP.

I'm not sure that the Clintons could have crushed him early on because of the tactics that they chose to employ once they started taking him seriously. I'm not sure that they would have had a strategy to deal with him then as they don't have one now except the divisiveness. I think their biggest mistakes have been not running a tight campaign as well as the manner in which they've conducted themselves.

I think their biggest mistake was having bill clinton speak in public and not campaigning for all democrats. He has been a huge liability for hillary's campaign, and he can't seem to keep his trap shut about race. He turned alot of black voters off when he spoke in South carolina, before that time alot of African Americans that I know were either voting for hillary or obama, after that they all voted for obama. The more negative hillary becomes the more people want to vote for obama. But I can see how hillary see's running a negative campaign works for her without it she wouldn't of won texas, pennsylvannia, etc. Her campaign seems to just cater the the older americans and the poor working class white americans, why has she stopped campaigning for the youth, african americans, and higher income white americans? Does she not think they will have a big turnout in the fall?

Edited May 19, 200817 yr by EricaKane70

The whole thing with this sexist complaint is that the people making the accusations are as guilty as the people they say are making the accusations of racism.

I don't care if people want to cry racism and sexism but don't use a double standard by saying that I find it sexist but other people can't find it racist.

The fact of the matter is that there are people of all races (including black people) who don't vote for Obama because he's black, some who vote for him because he's black, some who vote or don't vote for him based on "qualifications" and some who vote against HC because she's a woman. By the same token there are people who vote for HC because she's a woman, women who vote against her because they don't want a woman in office, people who vote for her based on "qualifications"and people who vote for her because she's white.

There are black people angry with other black people who don't support Obama and there are women angry with other women who don't support HC. It's all very childish.

I will say that since women are in the majority and can vote a woman into office if they were on the same page, then their complaints don't register with me at all. It's not men holding them back on this, it's other women and considering that there are men supporting her as well then they'd really be in if they were on the same page.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh President Obama addressing crowd in Oregon. 75000 people bitches!!!

PORTLAND, Ore. — Senator Barack Obama drew the largest crowd of his campaign so far on Sunday, addressing an estimated 75,000 people who had gathered here on the banks of the Willamette River.

Skip to next paragraph

Related

The Caucus: Record Crowd for Obama in Oregon (May 18, 2008)

Times Topics: Barack Obama

Times Topics: Hillary Rodham Clinton

Blog

The Caucus

The latest political news from around the nation. Join the discussion.

Election Guide

More Politics News

Enlarge This Image

Todd Heisler/The New York Times

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton greeted supporters at the Bowling Green airport on Sunday after a rally on the campus of Western Kentucky University.

“Wow! Wow! Wow!” were his first words as he surveyed the multitude, which included people in kayaks and small pleasure craft on the river on an unseasonably hot day in Oregon.

It is “fair to say this is the most spectacular setting for the most spectacular crowd” of his campaign, he told the audience. His wife and daughters, who have been with him most of the weekend, joined him on the stage at the beginning of the event but left as he was about to speak.

Mr. Obama has been campaigning extensively in Oregon, a state he hopes to win in Tuesday’s primary, as the Democratic presidential nominating race ticks down to its last handful of contests. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has been on a four-day swing through Kentucky, which also holds its primary on Tuesday and where she appears likely to draw the most votes.

Mr. Obama stopped earlier at an ice cream parlor, Lew’s Dari-Freeze and Drive In, in Milwaukie, a suburb of Portland. There, answering questions from reporters, he edged closer to declaring victory in the Democratic battle than has been his habit. He said he was returning to Iowa to await the results of the primaries on Tuesday night because “we thought it was a terrific way to bring things full circle.”

If things “go as we hope,” he said, “then we think we will have a majority of pledged delegates at that point.” That, he continued, would be “a pretty significant mark.”

While “that does not mean we declare victory,” Mr. Obama added, it puts him close and makes it easier for undecided and undeclared superdelegates to endorse him.

In Kentucky, Mrs. Clinton’s campaign events have had a simple feel, with speeches at street fairs, in parking lots or on the grassy lawns of college campuses.

“She’s doing what she needs to do,” said Mo Elleithee, a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, gesturing at the crowd gathered for a Sunday rally in western Kentucky.

Mrs. Clinton acknowledged that she was staging a one-sided war for votes in the state.

“My opponent said the other day he wasn’t coming back, so I’ve got the whole state to myself,” Mrs. Clinton said on Sunday afternoon at an outdoor rally in Bowling Green. “What a treat!”

Oregon is one of the greenest states in the nation, in both the literal and political sense. As such, it is viewed as particularly receptive to Mr. Obama’s promises “to change politics” in ways large and small.

Mr. Obama played to those sentiments in his speech on Sunday afternoon, in which he criticized the presumptive Republican nominee, Senator John McCain, at great length while virtually ignoring Mrs. Clinton. He again rejected a temporary suspension of the federal gasoline tax, criticizing Mr. McCain for supporting the idea while failing to mention that Mrs. Clinton has also endorsed it.

He denied, however, that he was effectively conceding Kentucky to his rival by focusing almost exclusively on the Oregon vote. “I don’t give up on things,” he said at the ice cream parlor. “We have got to make choices, and I can’t be everywhere at once.”

Mrs. Clinton has continued to make the case that she is a better candidate than Mr. Obama, delivering a stump speech in Bowling Green that highlighted many familiar points: that she will be ready on Day 1, will be a more capable commander in chief, and is more experienced in foreign policy matters.

“I’m going to get to work as soon as I’m inaugurated to make sure that we do build a strong and prosperous middle class,” she told a crowd at the Maker’s Mark distillery in Loretto, Ky.

And she has argued to audiences here that she is leading in the popular vote, based on a count that includes the elections in Florida and Michigan, whose votes were moved up in violation of Democratic Party rules. (Mr. Obama was not on the ballot in Michigan; neither candidate campaigned in Florida.)

“I’ll tell you where this race stands right now,” Mrs. Clinton told a crowd in Mayfield on Sunday. “Right now I am leading in the popular vote. More Americans have voted for me. And the states that I have won are states that a Democrat has to win to be elected in the fall.”

But her planned attack on Mr. McCain in a speech on Saturday, which criticized his economic policy in unusually strident tones, failed to generate any response from his campaign. The Obama and McCain campaigns, meanwhile, continued to fire at each other over Social Security and foreign policy on Sunday in dueling memorandums to reporters. Talk about Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain also dominated the morning political shows.

Mr. Obama spoke only briefly about Mrs. Clinton on Sunday, in remarks that were so magnanimous that he almost seemed to be speaking of her in the past tense.

“She has been a formidable candidate, smart and tough and determined,” he said as some in the crowd applauded politely. “She has worked as hard as she can. She has run an extraordinary campaign.”

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh President Obama addressing crowd in Oregon. 75000 people bitches!!!

Damn hillary should just give up.

I think their biggest mistake was having bill clinton speak in public and not campaigning for all democrats. He has been a huge liability for hillary's campaign, and he can't seem to keep his trap shut about race. He turned alot of black voters off when he spoke in South carolina, before that time alot of African Americans that I know were either voting for hillary or obama, after that they all voted for obama. The more negative hillary becomes the more people want to vote for obama. But I can see how hillary see's running a negative campaign works for her without it she wouldn't of won texas, pennsylvannia, etc. Her campaign seems to just cater the the older americans and the poor working class white americans, why has she stopped campaigning for the youth, african americans, and higher income white americans? Does she not think they will have a big turnout in the fall?

Bill clearly wasn't using his charm to his advantage. As far as her strategy goes, for now it's stay alive and the media let her know that the two former groups can help her most. She probably believes the latter groups will fall into line in the fall.

I just want to know from where the idea that people who make over $50,000 aren't hard working comes? Shiftless people come in all income brackets.

Damn hillary should just give up.

Maybe that's why she sent out that press message to Obama to remind him that she's still in the race and she's leading in every way that matters. Maybe she ought to take a special tour through all the states that don't matter and remind the people to vote for her anyway.

Damn hillary should just give up.

HOLY CRAP that alot of peeps!!!!!!!!!

He's a rock star get your game on and goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Hillary, for the love of god step aside

It pains me to see her make such a complete fool of herself.

The whole thing with this sexist complaint is that the people making the accusations are as guilty as the people they say are making the accusations of racism.

I don't care if people want to cry racism and sexism but don't use a double standard by saying that I find it sexist but other people can't find it racist.

The fact of the matter is that there are people of all races (including black people) who don't vote for Obama because he's black, some who vote for him because he's black, some who vote or don't vote for him based on "qualifications" and some who vote against HC because she's a woman. By the same token there are people who vote for HC because she's a woman, women who vote against her because they don't want a woman in office, people who vote for her based on "qualifications"and people who vote for her because she's white.

There are black people angry with other black people who don't support Obama and there are women angry with other women who don't support HC. It's all very childish.

I will say that since women are in the majority and can vote a woman into office if they were on the same page, then their complaints don't register with me at all. It's not men holding them back on this, it's other women and considering that there are men supporting her as well then they'd really be in if they were on the same page.

People will use many, many different reasons why to vote or not vote for someone. Those who choose the argument of qualifications are some I can either see or not see (Based on the argumnet). But, to cry sexism or racism just because you didn't win? I don't think so.

There are those who didn't vote for HRC because of her gender, and that is very disappointing and unfortunate. At the same token, I would have much more respect in her if she would just say "You know.........at times, we REALLY f'ed up. We did some things that just were not in the spirit of a good debate, and for that I take full responsibility." If that would ave happened as early as her vote on the Iraq war, it may have went a long way.

Hindsight is always 20/20.......that is, if you have the maturity to see what you've done wrong, and want to take steps to correct it.

Hillary, for the love of god step aside

It pains me to see her make such a complete fool of herself.

That also maybe the reason why the Obama camp is not pushing her out. The longer it goes on, the worse she looks.

And.......taking on the media and blaming them will truly not help you in the long run. They have deep memories, and they won't forget being thrown under the bus by someone who lost a campaign, and seems to be blaming everyone but herself.

There are those who didn't vote for HRC because of her gender, and that is very disappointing and unfortunate. At the same token, I would ahve much more respect in er if she would just say "You know.........at times, we REALLY f'ed up. We did some things that just were not in the spirit of a good debate, and for that I take full responsibility." If that would ave happened as early as her vote on the Iraq war, it may have went a long way.

Hindsight is always 20/20.......that is, if you have the maturity to see what you've done wrong, and want to take steps to correct it.

I know you're not blaming this on anybody but the media. So what if they crowned her in 2007 and see it differently now. It's their fault and it's her vs. the media. They're the ones who can't keep up with the new math.

I know you're not blaming this on anybody but the media. So what if they crowned her in 2007 and see it differently now. It's their fault and it's her vs. the media. They're the ones who can't keep up with the new math.

Exactly.

From CNN:

Buffet supporting Obama

Posted: 04:58 PM ET

From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney

Buffet is supporting Obama.

(CNN) — Warren Buffet, a longtime friend of both Hillary and Bill Clinton, told CNN Monday Barack Obama would be his choice for the next President of the United States.

Speaking with CNN's Becky Anderson, the billionaire investor said he would gladly vote for either candidate, but said it is clear the senator from Illinois will be the party's nominee.

"So it would be Barack Obama, — [he] would be my preference," Buffet said.

Buffet has long said he supports both Clinton and Obama. The Nebraska Democrat hosted major fundraisers for both last summer, and had previously held back on endorsing one over the other.

And, remember that tging about HRC saying and doing anything to receive the nom?

Also from CNN:

Clinton cites Karl Rove as reason to stay in

Posted: 04:45 PM ET

From CNN Political Producer Alexander Marquardt

Hillary Clinton campaigns in Kentucky Monday ahead of the states primary.

PRESTONSBURG, Kentucky (CNN) – Hillary Clinton defended her reasoning for staying in the presidential race Monday afternoon by pointing out that Karl Rove's analysis shows her to be the strongest candidate against John McCain in November.

“There has been a lot of analysis about which of us is stronger to win against Sen. McCain, and I believe I am the stronger candidate,” said Clinton, repeating a line from her stump speech.

Then she veered from her usual argument.

“Just today I found some curious support for that position when one of the TV networks released an analysis done by - of all people - Karl Rove, saying that I was the stronger candidate,” said Clinton. “Somebody go a hold of his analysis and there it is.”

Clinton was referring to electoral maps drawn up by Karl Rove’s consulting firm that were obtained by ABC and forecast her currently leading McCain in the electoral college by 53 votes (259-206), while Obama trails McCain by 17 (238-221)

270 electoral votes are needed to win November’s election.

Clinton continued to push for Florida and Michigan’s delegates to be seated but said that even if that happens, the race won’t be over.

“Once we include Florida and Michigan, neither Sen. Obama nor I will have enough delegates to get the nomination so there is no way that this is going to end any time soon because we’re going to keep fighting for the nomination.”

Now, when, as a Democrat, the same one who railed about the "Vast right-wing conspiracy", to take the word of one of the people who helped design that really says something.