AMC: Friday

[Cheap21]

ITA with alwaysAMC and Navell here. Not much more to add. I dont see how Bianca is comparable to a villian myself

she's not daytime's only lesbian. Simone on Passions is also gay

[David_Vickers]

Bianca should remain a lesbian, not bi. It's a complete re-write to make her bi. Zoe needs to be forgotten of after she or he is written off, never to be mentioned againg. When Bianca returns, she should come back with Maggie, or there should be a new lesbian love interest for her!

[dragonflies]

WORD Steph, big fat WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bianca is a LESBIAN, she's not supposed to be BI.

I think Michael Logan's rant in tvguide sums it up best:

Why is All My Children's Bianca in love with someone who has a penis? This landmark character-a wise, proud, card-carrying lesbian and the victim of a vicious rape-will exit Pine Valley this week along with her sudden obsession Zoe, a boorish, self-besotted rock star who considers himself a lesbian but has male plumbing. What crap. On the heels of Dixie's death and Erica's reversed abortion, this story-which has never for a moment rung true-is yet another profane assault on AMC's remarkable history. Megan McTavish, the writer behind all this, has been fired. But the damage will linger on.

[rsmith2k2]

I don't see the villain comparison either, exactly...however,

She willingly kissed Zarf, a person she knew as a man (after he surprised kissed her once) and said she was "moved" by it. Gay Bianca said Zarf "excites her", but explained it was "just this one man" to Kendall she thought she may be "falling for" Zarf. Bianca accepted a date with this man, wondered momentarily in front of the mirror like a giddy school girl why she was so all aflutter about a date with a man, shrugged, smiled went off to get ready for that now infamous NYE's coming out for Zoe.

Until those recent scenes of Bianca trying to further her physical relationship with Zoe on the yacht when she admitting that a woman's physical form is not what she needs sexually as a lesbian, to the point of never caring if Zoe furthered her transition, one iota--the most insulting and offensive part of the storyline from the lesbian perspective was in the very beginning. What I described in the previous paragraph happened back in December when Bianca had no idea Zoe existed inside of world famous, bio-man-rock star and groupie collector, Zarf.

IMO, whether or not this happens in real life is immaterial if the relationship doesn't fit with Bianca as an individual and based on her previous history (which it doesn't), if the story is not written well from BOTH the TG and lesbian perspective (which is has not) and doesn't really further anything for lesbian visibility (strike three). Having one of the very few (2 and Passions is headed for cancellation plus had half of their lesbian couple murdered) lesbians in Daytime paired in a relationship with a biologically male actor as her "girlfriend" does ZERO for lesbian and gay visibility with a mainstream audience.

McHackIt used the romance with Bianca as lazy way to establish Zoe's legitimacy as a woman (well besides to "straighten" her a bit)....just like she tried over and over to use Bianca to legitimize the Hobillies and the rest of McT's clan of creations (and JR, Tad, Adam, Kendall, blah, blahdiddy, blah...). This storyling does confuse the audience and sends mixed & murky messages. I've seen plenty of straight women online alone clamoring over Bianca's *wink**wink**nod**nod* "girl"friend while swooning over Jeffrey Carolson's sexiness as a man. Some adding Bianca's never had chemistry with any of her bio-girlfriends. Hmmm.... They are not getting the layers of the gender and orientation issues involved. They could if the story was written well.

The way Bianca's been written plays right into old stereotypes about lesbians just needing the right man to cure them (this is close enough to straight or Zoe is close enough to female that Bianca should be happy, blah). I've seen, predominantly straight fans rooting for Zarf and I do mean Zarf to legally marry Bianca and have kids and call themselves lesbians. But visually, and truly it is a heterosexual image many see...despite the semantical PC-gimmickry AMC is pouring over the airwaves. As if Bianca keeps saying she's GAY, DAMN IT!! enough we'll finally buy it and ignore she's made it plain being attracted to the physically female has nothing to do with being lesbian. Make no mistake, that's a perfectly fine, legitimate way to be. I have no problem with it, more power to Bianca and those persons who feel as Bianca now apparently does...BISEXUAL. Just don't call it gay without qualification or some REAL exploration of the the issues at hand.

Again because Bianca's perspective was written so poorly, by hacks waaaaaaaaaay out of their element and experience and out of the reach of their skills, this story gives hope to some parents that their gay kids might just go straight if the just the right opposite-physically-gendered with inner gay souled partner comes along. I've seen people question why that couldn't be the case for Bianca. Why not Bi-, if she's okay with having sex with men (even if "this one man" has an inner woman).

Zoe's identity has been affirmed on this show by just about everyone but the villains. Bianca is encouraged with little question to pursue this relationship from acquaintances and in-laws alike with only the Kanes showing any concern. Bianca has not been allowed to pursue one of her biological girlfriends in the same sexually suggestive manner that she has with Jeffrey playing her "girlfriend". Jeffrey's gotten more action playing girlfriend to Eden's Bianca than EH's Maggie did, as much/maybe more (yacht) sexually suggestive action than Olga's Lena (physically onscreen at least).

Zoe gets the her lesbian girl (dating by Chennel), her acceptance and the world being finger-wagged for being bigots if they dare question any aspect of this story or the party line GLAAD has sold to AMC. Zoe gets to be a lesbian with a bio-woman. Why, bodies matter a good damned bit to Zoe or she wouldn't be throwing her life into turmoil to CHANGE IT. Bianca? Why, she is too sainted to care about normal human physcial desire, she is above the baseness of humanity, her orientation. Bianca Montgomery is, The Transcendent Lesbian, lest we forget (how could we when Fronsie always reminds us). And now we know for damned sure what she's been transcending...her own gayness.

I feel the opposite of you, alwaysamc...I mean aside from our general disagreement on the story. I find that the way the story is written is ALL about satisifying Zoe's needs for legitmacy as a character. Now that Bianca's been sacrificed for another McT creation, everyone's all about Zoe and hates Bianca. Don't really see how AMC wins by tearing down a legacy character like Erica Kane's daughter for a stunt-driven, short-term newbie with no longterm connections to PV.

I'd also like to point out that the number of those in the soap press coming out in criticism of this relationship between Zoe and Bianca is growing. Too late, imo...but at least someone is speaking out. It's not just lesbians who find Bianca's romantic involvement wrong-headed at best and offensive at worst. And that has nothing to do with accepting Zoe as "woman", it has everything to do with Bianca and who she's always identified herself.

Anybody catch Zoe's big goodbye performance video from the upcoming New Beginnings eppy? On Best Week Ever's site...you know the one that lives to ridicule this "groundbreaking" story. This story, imo is no singluar beacon of light in the black hole of suck that has been McT's AMC.

[Kylie]

I'm not getting in the middle of this debate, because I'm not willing to debate the good and bad of AMC any longer. I think as long as this [!@#$%^&*] goes on, MMT's stain will always be on the show, and that's my final thought on the matter.

As for Barf, see this is how I'm looking at this entire thing: Zoe has a penis. There is no two ways about it. I believe you can be attracted to a soul. I do. But, IMO, that can only go so far. If she can find herself turned on, wanting sex with Zoe, then how is she not bi? The bioglogy is male. His hands. His lips. His body. Are male. She's being turned on, by a man. IMO, the minute that anything gets phsyical with Zoe, is the minute she becomes bsexual. MMT fucked up. No matter which way you cut it. She wanted her lesbian and her Trandgender character and she wanted Bianca to be with a man. And she got it. Period.

Say whatever you want about Bianca still being a good character or whatever, doesn't matter to me. I haven't liked her in years, so this doesn't make me think one thing or the other about her. But, she's bisexual and I personally, think it is is a slap in the face to Lesbian's.

And with that, I'm out.

[Canfan]

LOL as you can tell I was really pissed when I wrote that. A bad day at work. I never meant to compare Binks to a villian literally. Call it diarhhea of the mouth. Just some of her actions lately I find more objectionable than usual. The primary one being willing to not say a word while Babe ran off with Jr's kid again. And forcing Kendall to go along with her choices or threatening to cut her out of her life.

As for highschool kids, this is Frons target audience and that is why I got upset. Most kids at this age see things in black and white and the visual of Bianca the lesbian kissing Zoe, a still-physical male and being excited and romantic about it makes things look like she is now bi-sexual. This after years of saying she was a lesbian, which is completely different. After watching an assembly about teen suicide this week it just hit home how much some of these kids are hurting and this kind of portrayl on tv in my opinion is not helping.

Like I said I never meant to offend anyone. I just needed to rant and no one I know is watching the show except the people online. I've watched the show off and on for twenty years and I've always tuned back in from time to time but the last couple of years the plots have just offended me so much I cannot believe it. Ryan the wife-abuser treated as a hero, Jon the murderer moving into his victim's home. I thought nothing could surpass the unabortion but I just feel like this storyline has. And I am also offended that anyone who does'nt like Zoe is automatically treated as a bigot. I feel like I am being bashed over the head with the message if you don't like this character you are a homophobe. Life is not that simple. I just miss the days when soaps tried to tell a socially relevant storyline with some kind of thoughtfulness and grace, like Cindy's Aids or BJ's heart donation.

[Steve]

WORD to this! And I can't believe I'm saying this, but WORD to R Sinclair's 2 posts in this thread, too!

Bianca falling for Zoe is insulting to me as a gay man because it contradicts her history and imo, it sullies AMC's landmakr tale of Bianca's coming out for her to fall in love at first site with a man, even if he might one day become a woman. I can't believe anyone could defend this poorly written crap!

I'm so glad Adam is giving Krystal a taste of her own medicine by stealing her child like she stole Bianca's and Tad gets what he deserves for lying to JR when he knew little A was alive.

[AMCGio83]

First impression: Don't care for the strangers with candy girl playing Greens. I really thought Gina Togioni would have made a great recast.

[NaVell J. Lee]

the girl that plays Greens now is from that Comedy Central show, "Strangers w/ Candy?"

[Q Steph]

She was also Anna on Dawson's Creek, but had darker hair. She was the girl who hooked up with Drew in the 4th second and tried to seduce Pacey.

[AMCGio83]

I remember her from an episode. Something about a beauty contest. Sabine wasn't especially memorable. But then again, neither was Rebecca Budig memorable on Guiding Light. In fact, early in her Greenlee days I distinctly remember hurling a stuffed animal at the tv because she was very snarky to Becca Tyree who I really liked at the time.