Biden "clean black" comment

[DruRocks]

The entire debacle of sounding and/or acting "too white" is absolute stupidity. Since when does your color define how you should act. Please.

[Danni]

It is absolute stupidity. Then again, tell that to the students of Tarleton State, UConn Law School, and Clemson University...

[Casey]

Comments like Biden's and from people every day to the same effect just makes me think of Chris Rock's comedic routine where he talks about the 'And he speaks soo well' compliment.

It's almost as if it's a surprise to some that black people (or any minority for that matter) can actually speak with a certain level of intelligence.

[Bree]

He talked about being the son of a white mother and a Kenyan father, and as he grew up, he "mistrusted whites" because he basically thought they were all racist, and that he tried to ignore the white part of his heritage. Which is interesting, considering he dated a white woman. He also said something to the effect of that whites didn't care about your color as long as you kept to yourself. Bascially, being biracial was very confusing and conflicting for him, and this led to some prejudiced attitudes towards whites. I think most of that he's done away with now.

It will be interesting to see what he he has to say as this campaign goes on, because you know the media will keep harping on his color. I don't care if he's white, black, yellow, purple with pink spots. We need to know where he stands on key issues and what his plan is for America.

[Kwing42]

I guess when a black person calls a white person articulate it is not racist then? Only when a white calls a black that because as we all know blacks can not be well spoken and articulate?

That is horseshit.

So now whites can not call a black person smart and refreshing and new and clean and articulate because that is racist?

Give us stupid white people the do's and don't's when it comes to talking about people of color...that sure would help.

GOOD GOD this is part of the reason the race wars are still on today!!! Compliments can not even be accepted as anything but racist white people talk.

[Danni]

Here's another article from the New York Times that affirms why what Biden said was bad. Do us all a favor, Kwing, and LEARN something. If you're incapable of that then you're very well contributing to the problem.

The Racial Politics of Speaking Well

SENATOR JOSEPH R. BIDEN’S characterization of his fellow Democratic presidential contender Senator Barack Obama as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy” was so painfully clumsy that it nearly warranted pity.

There are not enough column inches on this page to parse interpretations of each of Mr. Biden’s chosen adjectives. But among his string of loaded words, one is so pervasive — and is generally used and viewed so differently by blacks and whites — that it calls out for a national chat, perhaps a national therapy session.

It is amazing that this still requires clarification, but here it is. Black people get a little testy when white people call them “articulate.”

Though it was little noted, on Wednesday President Bush on the Fox News Channel also described Mr. Obama as “articulate.” On any given day, in any number of settings, it is likely to be one of the first things white people warmly remark about Oprah Winfrey; Richard Parsons, chief executive of Time Warner; Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice; Deval Patrick, the newly elected governor of Massachusetts; or a recently promoted black colleague at work.

A series of conversations about the word with a number of black public figures last week elicited the kind of frustrated responses often uttered between blacks, but seldom shared with whites.

“You hear it and you just think, ‘Damn, this again?’ ” said Michael Eric Dyson, a professor of humanities at the University of Pennsylvania.

Anna Perez, the former communications counselor for Ms. Rice when she was national security adviser, said, “You just stand and wonder, ‘When will this foolishness end?’ ”

Said Reginald Hudlin, president of entertainment for Black Entertainment Television: “It makes me weary, literally tired, like, ‘Do I really want to spend my time right now educating this person?’ ”

So what is the problem with the word? Whites do not normally object when it is used to describe them. And it is not as if articulate black people do not wish to be thought of as that. The characterization is most often meant as a form of praise.

“Look, what I was attempting to be, but not very artfully, is complimentary,” Mr. Biden explained to Jon Stewart on Wednesday on “The Daily Show.” “This is an incredible guy. This is a phenomenon.”

What faint praise, indeed. Being articulate must surely be a baseline requirement for a former president of The Harvard Law Review. After all, Webster’s definitions of the word include “able to speak” and “expressing oneself easily and clearly.” It would be more incredible, more of a phenomenon, to borrow two more of the senator’s puzzling words, if Mr. Obama were inarticulate.

That is the core of the issue. When whites use the word in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. It is similar to praising a female executive or politician by calling her “tough” or “a rational decision-maker.”

“When people say it, what they are really saying is that someone is articulate ... for a black person,” Ms. Perez said.

Such a subtext is inherently offensive because it suggests that the recipient of the “compliment” is notably different from other black people.

“Historically, it was meant to signal the exceptional Negro,” Mr. Dyson said. “The implication is that most black people do not have the capacity to engage in articulate speech, when white people are automatically assumed to be articulate.”

And such distinctions discount as inarticulate historically black patterns of speech. “Al Sharpton is incredibly articulate,” said Tricia Rose, professor of Africana Studies at Brown University. “But because he speaks with a cadence and style that is firmly rooted in black rhetorical tradition you will rarely hear white people refer to him as articulate.”

While many white people do not automatically recognize how, and how often, the word is applied, many black people can recall with clarity the numerous times it has stopped them in their tracks.

Melissa Harris-Lacewell, professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton University, said her first notable encounter with the word was back in high school in Chester, Va., when she was dating the school’s star football player. In post-game interviews and news stories she started to notice that he was always referred to as articulate.

“They never said that about the white quarterback,” she said, “yet they couldn’t help but say it about my boyfriend.”

William E. Kennard, a managing director of the Carlyle Group and a former chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, recalled that in his days as partner at a Washington law firm in the early 1990s written reviews of prospective black hires almost always included the words, “articulate and poised.” The characterization was so consistent and in such stark contrast to the notes taken on white job applicants that he mentioned it to his fellow partners.

“It was a law firm; all of the people interviewing for jobs were articulate,” said Mr. Kennard, 50, who is also on the board of The New York Times Company. “And yet my colleagues seemed struck by that quality in black applicants.”

The comedian and actor D. L. Hughley, a frequent guest on HBO’s “Real Time With Bill Maher,” says that every time he appears on the show, where he riffs on the political and social issues of the day, people walk up to him afterward and tell him how “smart and articulate” his comments were.

“Everyone was up in arms about Michael Richards using the N-word, but subtle words like this are more insidious,” Mr. Hughley said. “It’s like weight loss. The last few pounds are the hardest to get rid of. It’s the last vestiges of racism that are hard to get rid of.”

Sometimes the “articulate” moniker is merely implied. My colleague Rachel Swarns and I chuckle wearily about the number of times we have finished interviews or casual conversations with people — always white, more often male — only to have the person end the meeting with some version of the statement, “something about you reminds me of Condoleezza Rice.”

Neither Rachel nor I look anything like Ms. Rice, or each other for that matter, so the comparison is clearly not physical. The comment seems more a vocalized reach by the speaker for some sort of reference point, a context in which to understand us.

It is unlikely that whites will quickly or easily erase “articulate” and other damning forms of praise from the ways in which they discuss blacks. Listen for it in post-Super Bowl chatter, after the Academy Awards, at the next school board meeting or corporate retreat.

But here is a pointer. Do not use it as the primary attribute of note for a black person if you would not use it for a similarly talented, skilled or eloquent white person. Do not make it an outsized distinction for Brown University’s president, Ruth Simmons, if you would not for the University of Michigan’s president, Mary Sue Coleman. Do not make it the sole basis for your praise of the actor Forest Whitaker if it would never cross your mind to utter it about the expressive Peter O’Toole.

With the ballooning size of the black middle and upper class, qualities in blacks like intelligence, eloquence — the mere ability to string sentences together with tenses intact — must at some point become as unremarkable to whites as they are to blacks.

“How many flukes simply constitute reality?” Mr. Hudlin asked, with amused dismay.

[Kwing42]

You know first of all Danni, I am not the one who is crying over every little thing that is said.

You only see things in one color.

Thats too bad for you that you have chosen to live in a world so full of hate and venegence and pity.

I am not one who would be offended to be spoken so highly of.

Are there "bad" black people? You bet your ass there are. Are there "bad" white people people...OF COURSE.

Do some whites treat blacks unfairly? YOU BET. So some blacks treat whites unfairly...Yes.

To me, it is wrong when EITHER side acts that way. TO you though, and this is why I wonder why you are telling me to LEARN something is that you only think it is wrong when it happens to a black, or woman, or hispanic. (actually all you care about is the color, but regardless).

I think it is wrong NO MATTER who it happens too. I hate people who discredit, put down and ridicule others because of their color, sex, gender, handicap or what have you.

YOU only care about COLOR and that is why YOU are wrong.

YOU need to learn that the world is unfair and its unfair for more than just PEOPLE OF A COLOR OTHER THAN WHITE. Because WHITE is a color, and WHITES have problems too. Ever heard the term hick? Don't you think that there are employers who would rather hire a Yankee over a southern hick?

YOu bet. But because it does not include a black person YOU are blinded by this and refuse to admit that it is a problem.

BUt whatever. Keep blaming people like me who hold NOTHING against ANYONE no matter who they are...you will surely get far in your life. You are the one with the hate issues and you are the person who needs to do the learning. Base your thoughts and views like I have...ON MY OWN. I do not need scholars or other people who write articles for me to quote from to base my views and arguments. I have my own mind, I use it. Think about it. I do not need the New York Times to tell me what I should feel. Thats pretty sad.

[Danni]

Because white privilege exists, and whether or not you want to admit it to yourself, you benefit from it. You benefit from it far more than you're willing to acknowledge. That being said, I'm sick and tired of trying to explain that to you. If you want to maintain your ignorance, fine. Go right ahead.

And you'd best believe that an employer would rather take the Southern hick than the minority. I suggest you read How the Irish Became White.

It is people like you who are the reason why racism still exists. You clearly hold grudges against POC, considering how you brought up your flawed notion of what affirmative action is. You claim to want to know why these mentalities exist, but you don't let it process. Instead you think that you're somehow above all of that because *gasp* you're Irish! Well, you're not above it. In fact, you're directly contributing to the problem. That being said, I'm done with you. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions. You go ahead and stay in your ignorance. You go ahead and think that somehow you're losing in all of this.

[Brandeis]

REALITY: Biden never would have said it about a white person (or never felt he had to due to his own unrealized prejudices)

Danni, you are my hero. I wish I had your brain and your knowledge. The prejudice I feel as an Asian has a different base than yours, but it's there. The prejudice I feel for being lesbian is also there, but again from a different historical and internal ethnic perspective. I can come home to an Asian family and get over whatever anti-Asian stuff I deal with, as it is with any ethnic group. Must the gay part of me have to find a gay family? Slavery should never be forgotten. It is the legacy of America still. As long as people deny it, it only proves they are not part of an underclass that they claim to accept.

And one cannot be RACIST if one is not white. The definition of the word RACIST relies on being part of the ruling race/class. In America only whites can be racist. Other ethnicities can be, and certainly are, prejudiced, bigoted, hateful, disgusting as hell, but only the majority ruling race, by definition, can be called RACIST. It's a term that only belongs to the majority or elite ruling minority (think Third Reich vs. Jews WWII)

The civil rights movement would never have happened without educated LIBERALS, regardless of race. The Reverend King, the spearhead, was a liberal as was his wife, Coretta.

I am disappointed in his "christian bigot" children.

[Sweet_VeeVee24]

I for one know first hand about this...When I decided to attend college, I wasn't picking a college based on which color the folks would be there in attendance, however, coming from a family who still can't accept that I am mixed, I was accused by some for choosing my school to 'fit in' with the white folks...

Also, while in college, I had a part-time job in customer service, and endured the crass comments from ignorant, small-minded folks that would say, "You sound so intelligent; not like those 'ghetto' girls who can't pick up an English book" I actually had one person on the line asking throughout my assistance, "Are you black, you don't sound black, are you black?" Finally, having had enough of her nonsence and five other calls on the line, I asked back: "Are you on my phone? No...You're not." and released the call.

Roman, I told you about this too, about how folks think because of the color of your skin, you just HAVE to act the way they want to depict you. I don't want to act black, I don't want to act white, all I want to act like is a human being that knows how to treat another person with some form of respect, rather than by the color of their skin, or whether they talk intellectual or not.

[Kwing42]

The funny thing is Danni, I do not hold grudges. I have friends of every color, gender, sexual orientation and nationality. We have great friendships that I cherish.

I have said from day one: Racism exists. More so for blacks, I agree. But EVERY faces it in some way shape or form. You fail to realize that or accept that. You only want a pity party for people who are black, not yellow, not white, not brown...just black. That does not make you a hero. That makes you a problem.

I would applaud your efforts if you were fair minded and accepting of all colors...you are not. You hate whites...that is evident.

I do not hate blacks, do I disagree with some, you bet. I disagree with whites as well.

You can not win a fight until you play fair and you are not playing fair. You have called me a racist, dumb and a person who holds grudges against blacks. You are a joke. Plain and simple and more people than not can see that.

By the way, I am Irish and proud of it. But am I crying foul because we are portrayed as a bunch of drunks? No. I am what is called a grown up and I can live with it.

I am sorry Danni you are the one with the problem. You only want black privlegdge. I on the other hand want everyone to be treated as one...but you can not accept that. You can tear me down and bring me down to your level of hatred all you want, I will not cave in.

I on the other hand will now ignore you hate laced messages that have no meaning to an intelligent conversation.

You will get no further with your messages of hate than this message board until you become a more balanced person. You are full of hate and vile lies and that is too bad.

With the passion you have, if you did something good with it, you would be a hero. But with the hate..you are just adding more fuel to the fire.

If everything is racism to you, or based on color....you will never achieve a single thing.

Good bye Danni. I am done wasting my time on a closed minded person.

I respect and treat EVERYONE no matter WHO they are, WHAT color they are and WHO they sleep with, with the same respect that I would like to be given. Do you see Danni, why you have no respect here? You can not appreciate and accept others.