Cat

James Kennedy clearly indulged in some downhill skiing before walking onstage, but my God, is he entertaining.

Well encapsulated. This is very much how I feel regarding RHs currently (and in the past, Daytime). Because essentially they have become my soaps. At this moment in time, I am torn between my enjoyment of, and loyalty to, these RH franchises -- but it comes alongside a feeling of diminishing returns. I do hold out hope that the RHs can turn things around, because in Daytime terms, this is a young set of franchises. And Daytime in the past was able to pivot and reinvent itself. Well, until the last 15 years or so. The long-time cast members issue is a conundrum. For example, I love and miss Nene A LOT -- the old Nene. Because I have a feeling that if Current Nene were to return now, I'm not sure she'd give us what we are craving. She has a complicated relationship with Bravo and RHOA, one marred by bitterness. Personally, I am looking forward to Tamra. Tamra looks like she has been highly activated, and that burning need to Bring It may blow up in her face. However, she also has history with a bulk of the existing cast -- history we have seen play out on the show. I don't dislike Gina either, and think she has somewhat unfairly become the poster child for 'all that is wrong with RHs currently.' Gina is, as you say, a B player, not an A player, and maybe there is a slight millennial aloofness to her that does not translate in terms of personality. However, RHOC, to its credit, used to show more so-called 'normal' lifestyles (and not necessarily the hyper-aspirational ones built on fake money and a Bravo cheque). I don't want to jump on the culture wars pitting us against different generations (!), but do you think it is a case of Baby Boomers and Gen Xers giving RH a certain life-well-lived specialness, as opposed to Millennials and Gen Zers? (Clearly this is not a hard-and-fast rule: Rinna and Erika are Boomer and Gen Xer, respectively, and their arrival drove BH in a vastly more toxic and manufactured direction. By the same token, Teresa's brood of Gen Z dorters are giving me more history & authenticity than some actual cast members). I will add one more thing: the RH social media behometh. So much of RH now plays out off the show. On social media, in podcast interviews, on the After Shows. It's like, the show is the core brand. Bravo needs to show what happens ON THE SHOW + REUNION and keep the cast in line when it comes to leaking and giving everything away. Eventually, no one is going to want to buy the cow if they're getting the milk for free (to paraphrase a nasty old saying with regards to women). Or maybe I've got it wrong, and the RH ecosystem actually helps to drum up viewership for the core show. I guess one good example (for Bravo) has been VPR. That Affair happened in secret, but as soon as it came out, VPR rushed over with a camera crew and told the cast they were filming again to get their real-time reactions. Reunion was delayed, and Editing poured over the season's footage to edit it 'in hindsight.' This was a great pivot from Bravo, understanding that it needed to bring immediacy to a product which had been filmed prior to more recent events.

Yes, it's too bad about Taylor who is an underrated HW. Great to see her, tho. I'm not sure I registered much in that trailer other than the LOL end. I was expecting to see a lot more Tamra vs Heather, that's for sure. Noella! I kind of miss your crazy ass.

100%. The grudges are built into the Sopranos-lite DNA of the show. No forgiveness, ever. Even Dolores refuses to talk about Dina, ever. S5 RHONJ nearly died a death because of the famb'ly grudges running in circles. We are near that point again with this second cycle of grudge matches. Bravo will have to do a reset and hopefully avoid another S6. My view on Teresa vs the Gorgas is that what the Gorgas did to get on the show and throw the famb'ly under the bus was practically unforgiveable. Practically. There was a moment during S7-10 where I thought all three could finally put this behind them and present a united famb'ly front. Personally, I loved those seasons of RHONJ! Unfortunately, both sides live to grudge and to one-up each other to the detriment of the other. Teresa turned near-monstrous in trying to preserve the fakery of her 'perfect' life during S3-5. The Gorgas realised in the last few seasons that conflict with Teresa ensures their place on the show. Baby-hankering and fake secret sisters don't cut it. When Louie got caught in their crosshairs last season, that was the final straw for Teresa who is basically in love with her Love Story that she gets to present to the world. A word about Louie: the Brooks Ayres of RHONJ. I'll keep saying it, too. Teresa is his mark: she's not bright and she has money. He's already making decisions on her endorsement deals. Plus there is no pre-nup. I'd say watch this space, except that Teresa is 1,000% invested in making this relationship look like perfection. It took years for her to publicly disentangle herself from Juicy Joe, even though that marriage was probably over way before the FBI even indicted them. I really like Danielle, but Staten Island has to grow a pair. The reputation of her home turf depends on it! This is the same place that spawned Mob Wives, for goodness sake! Seriously, though, I like that Danielle has a sensitive side, but when it comes to Margaret and Jackie, she needs to woman up and realise that their judgment does not matter. They're hardly all that. Rachel is level headed and I like that the best about her. However, there are entire episodes where she's quiet and then she appears on screen and I'm like "Oh! It's you. Yes, of course, you're on the show." The Gorga parents are spinning in the family grave. Teresa, Joe, Melissa and Kathy basically destroyed that family for a Bravo cheque and reality TV. And yeah, one side is going to leave after this season. My money right now is on the Gorgas, but Teresa has been known to flub a reunion.

I think Margaret is smart, knows how to sell herself, was upfront from the start about her affair in her previous marriage, and knew that RH was going to be a popularity contest from Day 1. She understood that honesty was the best policy from the start of a HW's stint. As you say, Siggy basically manoeuvred herself right off the show with her crazy. Marge didn't have to do a thing. It always stunned me how angry Siggy was with Margaret for no reason. Margaret's ex-BFF said in the podcast interview that Margaret contacted Siggy's husband's ex-wife to get dirt on her. Unconfirmed. Maybe that was the reason, but Siggy didn't mention it on screen. And I feel like she would have brought that kind of thing up at reunion. Margaret also knew to be nice to Melissa and Teresa. Which is why she felt so betrayed by Teresa a few seasons later. She couldn't understand why Teresa had sicced Danielle on her when she thought they were cordial (answer: Teresa was jealous of Marge's then-popularity). Right. And I think Margaret's bubbly personality and snarky wit has started to curdle into something Rinnaesque. A lot of what she is doing is the Survivor stuff needed to protect her position on the show. To do this, you kind of have to do underhanded things and become a shell of the person you used to be. Margaret's not where Rinna got to, yet. She's not quite the ghoul who sold her soul for the show and lost herself in the process. I mean, I love Dolores for precisely the reason you describe. I love her parents, her kids, even the relationship with Frank. She's upfront about their marriage. Paulie seems good to her. And she's happy to keep it copacetic with most of the cast. I'm ok with that. Dolores has history with almost everyone and holds the cast, past and present, together.

RHOP newbie joining the cast is also of Nigerian descent. Here she is with her husband. Gizelle is chairing a script meeting about the hot hubbie as I type:

P.S.: That cast, including Drs Jackie & Simone, went to Dr G's and his fiancée's wedding thinking their buddy Quad wasn't going to be around this season.

She's ba-a-ack

RHONJ has hit a Potomac inflection point. Half the cast is on one side, the other is on another, and after this season, changes will have to be made as to how the show moves forward. Some of the drama is clearly manufactured, as @DaytimeFansaid. Like Danielle vs Who from Whoville. Rachel is clear-minded but antiseptic, so sometimes I forget she's on the show until she pipes up. Danielle says she's a tough Staten Island chick but can't handle confrontation. Jennifer trying to make Boogawolf happen with Margaret is another 'what' moment. And then there's Melissa strategizing with Housewife Joe to lay the groundwork for the Gorgas not to attend Teresa's wedding. Sigh. Teresa couldn't care less if they attend or not, but since Melissa already turned down Teresa's offer to be a bridesmaid, she can't keep dipping into that well to claim victimhood. Jenn Fessler could be a potential next season as she's got smarts. But she's too thirsty and smug and has been well coached. She is obviously Margaret's creature. I don't have a lot of time to listen to RH podcasts, but i listened to part of one featuring Marge's former BFF (one cruel highlight: Marge told the producers Jackie is too weak and emotional for the show, and that Jackie 'sleeps' with Evan with a t-shirt on) and it didn't surprise me. I find Marge is so mean and vengeful. She definitely accrues incriminating info about her castmates to keep them in line, so when Marge's wingman Jackie keeps piping up, she looks a fool. Still love Dolores.

RHONY watches VPR...

For those keeping up with RHONJ (and I'm still catching up), seems like the underlying drama continues playing out on social media. Marge bought the Skinny Italian pizza ovens that were mentioned in passing as part of the beef between Teresa & Louie and Joe & Melissa. Why? Probably to try and do something splashy at the reunion which films this week. But now that her plan has been spoiled on social media -- perhaps because wheeling a pizza oven into the reunion might not be the flex she thought it was -- Margaret has said she now plans on 'donating' it to the WWHL clubhouse.

Ive never forgotten this moment, ever! Insane and 100% real. You saw it just spiral out of control in real time and just go left. Speaking of Quad, Dr. G and the fiancee got married this weekend. The cameras were there, as were Simone, Jackie, Toya. Quad, of course, refused to sign on for this season. I'm not a Quad fan and always thought she was a user and Phaedra-level shady.... but im not sure Dr. G is where it's at for M2M either.

This whole sequence has been living rent free in my head ever since, lol. Especially the Porsha reference, because it harked straight back to RHOA. Porsha thought RHUGT was going to be an easy ride, and the Peacock producers were like, No, sweetie. We just wanted to remind you that we can refer to stuff you no longer want discussed on TV. Don't get me wrong, Porsha is funny and beautiful and charming, but sometimes it's totally fake. In this most recent episode, it felt like Porsha's mask was slipping. And it was Leah, in a moment of lucidity, who pointed some of that out to her. Other than that brief moment.... Leah is a highly-strung 8 year old desperate for a mother's attention, and can only really get that when she's 'sick' and has to have people cluster around her and attend to her. Going to hospital for nausea? Surely now she has exhausted her bag of tricks on this show. Heather came more into her own this episode. She's still a Pick Me, but I'm glad she called Gizelle out on what she said about her Marysol's impression of Mana Elsa was ::chef's kis::

I feel like an UGT iteration might work for Eboni in a RHONY context, and maybe Bethenny and Tinsley could dip their toe into a one-week trip also. Eboni herself suggested a One Series Wonders UGT where she could go with Jules Wainstein. I haven't heard a peep about the new RHONY so I can't say if she'd work with that particular group, but having Eboni and Leah be our entry into the reboot should have been a no-brainer from early on. Unfortunately, the immediate reaction to S13 was so bad that Bravo execs were probably scared off. Of course, someone on this thread had the genius idea of Eboni moving to DC and joining Potomac! Eboni is whipsmart and would keep Giz and the others on their toes. Amen to all this. Summer in the City, between the city and the Hamptons, would have harked back to classic RHONY where the first 4 episodes of the first seasons actually took place on Long Island. Jill totally overestimated her worth, especially after RHUGT 2.

Please let this be true! (And speaking of RHONY and its trendy Revamp, when are they going to drop that trailer?)

Probably the best write-up of what Elizabeth Hubbard meant to ATWT, and to you, that I have seen anywhere thus far.

It was that intimacy you talk of which I felt unable to penetrate at first -- a lot of it unspoken and resonated off the screen, speaking of a past history that I hadn't been privy to. After a while, though, the story on a NYC show could grab you by the lapels, and make you think 'I'm not sure what is going on here, but I'm intrigued and want to know more.' (Come to think of it, Y&R also had that spooky, unspoken aspect running through its story-telling, a history which you may or may not fully know or understand at first, leaving the viewer to infer things instead of spoon-feeding you every point). I loved the glossiness and action of the LA soaps in the 80s, but there was something incredibly charismatic and glamorous about a character like Lucinda Walsh, Iris Cory and Alexandra Spaulding, too. Not glossy and flashy as much as old-money whispering with intent! You also forgot Sex and the City, lol. Less shows are shot in NYC now because it's more expensive, real estate is at a premium (hence the eventual move of P&G soaps out of Manhattan and into other boroughs/tri-state) and there was an end to some filming subsidies after the 90s. L&O is practically part of the NYC Tourism Board now, and Succession is such a prestige project that it can afford to pay at a premium level. The Good Fight has been gorgeously good, and kind of a soap in all but name IMO. Crazy that it is actually set in Chicago.

You always got a sense of a lot of the cast being very close, and that personal warmth and chemistry was a big part of its success. Elizabeth Hubbard was a master at this, and you could tell when she was playing opposite Scott Bryce, Martha Byrne and Larry Bryggman and they were kind of ad-libbing around the script a little and adding their own touches and flourishes -- and, importantly, pivoting right back with an ad-lib of their own to the person who had ad-libbed them. That trust between actors to be able to do that without deviating from the direction of a scene really took ATWT to a level other shows tried to emulate (I'm thinking of Santa Barbara which had ex-ATWT star Justin Deas as Keith Timmons; his ad-libbing skills were top-notch on that show).

I love LA soaps, and they were my first entrée into Daytime -- Days, Santa Barbara, Y&R, B&B, GH. They all have a very special place in my heart. As a kid, I always assumed the NYC soaps' reserves of history were a wall I might never be able to climb. One day, I was switching channels, and fell upon a young Lily in the stables of her estate, and I was like "Hello." It seemed like I was embarking on the first page of a very exciting book. NYC soaps ATWT and AW had something excitingly Literary about them. I mean that in the best possible way, not an alienating kind of Literary snobbism, but more an inclusive, exciting way of constructing characters and telling a story. There was a time in the 1980s when ATWT could really get you scared and keep your heart pounding with its cliffhangers.

Who can fail to tear up when reading Martha's words? They both loved each other like family. Her last line: "...grateful the universe gifted me with such a force of nature, of which the world will not see the likes of again." 😢

100%. I did not realise the gift that we had with NYC soaps when I was a young kid. It's only when I got into my late teens and 20s that the quality, from the writing to the acting, became evident to me. LA soaps, and there were some great ones I dearly loved, had their own style and dynamism. However, some of those NY soaps were spine-tinglingly good, literal page-turners put to screen. Dames like EH and BM anchored those shows, and it was kind of considered a slow day if they weren't on.

Wow, congrats! I'll bet that was a rollicking interview full of great stories.

OMG what a Legend! 💔 She burned with intense intelligence and charisma onscreen. May she RIP. @Soapsuds thank you for linking to her interview about her career.

I am wondering what really went down with Dolores and Dina. In an interview with Danny Pellegrino a few years back, Dolores indicated that she and Dina had never gotten along, though they hung out in the same girlfriend group which also included Teresa way before RHONJ existed. Apparently, the friend squad went into NYC one Saturday night for dinner and a club, and Dina and Dolores had a big falling out. And I've tried to rationalise to myself that Dolores, who I like, would not have written a letter of support to the judge if she actually thought Manzo had had his wife beaten up -- because that would be way too cold and brutal on her part. Surely she does not hate Dina to that extent? As for the Teresa-Joe-Melissa drama, it is heading into its final denouement. The Gorgas' default setting is victimhood on this show. The idea that Teresa could have asked them to participate in the wedding off-camera and they declined, knowing they could throw a woe-is-me pity-party for the cameras, is not inconceivable. But I also think Teresa hates her SIL and that will never change -- the difference is, now she is also completely done with roid-rage Joe. There is no Nonno and Nonna anymore to enforce the peace. And Louie, even while pretending to be Good Cop to Teresa's Bad Cop, is basically the Brooks Ayres of RHONJ. (BTW: why the hell are Melissa's nieces/nephews asking Louie and Teresa for money all the time? Don't they hate Teresa like Melissa does? Why don't they ask Melissa & Joe for cash?) Speaking of RH alignments, Jackie is the Teddi Mellencamp of RHONJ. I find her insufferably, incomprehensibly smug towards Danielle who, so far, is looking like she will be back next season as a full-timer. Unlike cutting-room-floor Jackie. If I were Margaret and Jennifer, I would also be worried about how I'm coming across. Margaret comes into every scene either threatening somebody or talking about her coochie sweat. She definitely has dirt on everyone. Her burning hatred of Jennifer makes her look mean-spirited and bitter, and I'm pretty sure that's not the persona she would like to convey onscreen. Jennifer really has gotten under her skin. But Jennifer, too, is looking contrived and rehearsed, whether it is fighting, and then making up with, Dolores, or the coffee-reading mess. Jennifer seems to take her cues from RH Twitter fans' opinions. Still not sure about Rachel, though I think it's mostly due to my visceral reaction to her nose-job. And Jenn Fessler is thirsty as hell. Jackie, I'd watch out if I were you, because if she can shank Siggy to get into Margaret's good graces, she can shank you to get on the the show.

Dina's explanation sounds by far the most plausible. Of course she'd have PTSD about going to New Jersey ever again after her ex husband hired goons to beat her and her husband up. It also sounds, weirdly, like she and Dolores can co-exist fine in social situations. Which is surprising to me, given that Dolores is alleged to have written a letter of support to Tommy Manzo to the judge overseeing his trial. Dolores's refusal to discuss Dina on camera in this week's episode was also very final-sounding, like something went down between them recently. (And bear in mind, Dina's video was filmed in mid-2022, before Teresa's wedding. In the video, she says she'll be at the wedding, but looks like she pulled out later, maybe because Bravo cameras were going to be filming everything). Maybe Dolores is tired of being asked questions about Dina. RHONJ really is Six Degrees of Separation between castmates and ex-castmates.