kalbir

CBS for it's impact on the genre, but I will admit that ABC and Days had a bigger impact in terms of soaps being a part of pop culture.

Knots Landing had one season in the Top 10 (1984/85), one season in the Top 15 (1983/84), two seasons in the Top 20 (1982/83, 1985/86), four seasons in the Top 30 (1979/80, 1980/81, 1986/87, 1988/89), and six seasons below the Top 30 (1981/82, 1987/88, 1989/90 to 1992/93). Also remember that Knots Landing had time slot competition from critically acclaimed Hill Street Blues and L.A. Law, and a brief period it had time slot competition from Top 10 sitcoms Cheers and Night Court. If Knots Landing was able to last further into the 1990s, it would've been clobbered by ER. CBS's attempt at new primetime soaps in the 1990s (2000 Malibu Road, Angel Falls, Hotel Malibu, Second Chances, Central Park West, Four Corners) didn't work and CBS hasn't attempted a primetime soap since.

1985/86 was the season that the primetime soaps started to decline. Lots of factors I think: viewer fatigue, strategic counter-programming, sitcoms making a comeback, weak lead ins.

Jane Wyman (born 1917) and Susan Flannery (born 1939) are of different generations, so that casting doesn't really work. Y&R's original messy wealthy matriarchs Dorothy Green (born 1920), Jeanne Cooper (born 1928), and K.T. Stevens (born 1919) were age-appropriate to be the matriarch on a 1980s primetime soap. I thought Cynthia Watros should've been a Patty recast in 2013 instead of the new character Kelly which was a waste of her talent.

Yeah, CBS really did Angela Lansbury dirty in 1995/96 after the way she carried the network's primetime lineup over the previous decade. That season CBS's only Top 10 show was 60 Minutes. 1995/96 was also the season where CBS tried to be young and cool with the "You're On" promos but that didn't work so the following season they went to "Welcome Home". Murder She Wrote and Crazy Like a Fox were the only new CBS shows of 1984/85 that returned for 1985/86, and they both were in the 1984/85 Top 10. Crazy Like a Fox was a time slot hit, as it was done once it no longer had Murder She Wrote as it's lead in. I would've loved to be a fly on the wall in the Dallas producers office when the 1985/86 final ratings showed Murder She Wrote ahead of Dallas. Three seasons in the Top 5 (1985/86, 1986/87, 1992/93), five seasons in the Top 10 (1984/85, 1987/88, 1988/89, 1991/92, 1994/95), three seasons in the Top 15 (1989/90, 1990/91, 1993/94) cannot be just from the 50+ audience alone.

Same here.

@Soapsuds I think this thread is for acting ability, not glow ups LOL

That's ABC for you, the network that gave us Luke and Laura.

Agree with you. Social issues have to be handled responsibly, otherwise the storylines become shock plot devices. Case in point, a writer can't have a rape storyline without treating it as the crime that it is and dealing with the medical aspect and emotional aftermath.

During the NBC 20 year dominance of Thursday night, The Cosby Show was #1 for 5 consecutive seasons (1985/86 to 1989/90), Cheers #1 for 1 season (1990/91), Seinfeld #1 for 2 seasons (1994/95 and 1997/98), ER #1 for 3 seasons (1995/96, 1996/97, 1998/99), and Friends #1 for 1 season (2001/02).

@Khan commented in another thread that the primetime soaps tended to avoid social issue storylines (I hope I'm not misinterpreting your comment Khan; also I didn't want to derail the other thread). I know viewers of the 1980s big four didn't expect to see Bill Bell-style social issue storylines, but of the social issue storylines attempted by the 1980s big four, which were good and which were not so good?

Going back to NBC Thursday night dominance of 1984-2004, ER was the only one of the 10 pm dramas to crack the Top 10. Hill Street Blues was in its fifth season in 1984/85 which was the last season it was in the Top 30 (Hill Street Blues best finish was 21st in 1982/83), and it's time slot changed in December 1986 to Tuesday 9 pm. Hill Street Blues ended May 1987. L.A. Law pilot in September 1986 was aired on a Monday and the series premiered as part of NBC's new Friday night lineup in October 1986. The A-Team moved from Tuesday 8 pm to Friday 8 pm, Miami Vice moved up 1 hour to 9 pm, and L.A. Law at 10 pm. That Friday lineup didn't work (The A-Team fell below the Top 30 and it was cancelled, Miami Vice fell out of the Top 10) and in December 1986, L.A Law got moved to Thursday 10 pm, where it would remain until it's end in May 1994. L.A. Law best finish was 12th in 1987/88, tied w/ Moonlighting.

Beverly Hills 90210 was such a big part of my teen years yet I somehow don't feel nostalgic for it and have a longing to rewatch it. The first four seasons were the best. I lost interest early in the 5th season and never went back to it.

NBC was so indebted to Bill Cosby for saving their primetime lineup that they gave A Different World the lead out time slot from The Cosby Show, thus Family Ties moving to Sunday where it got clobbered by Murder She Wrote. Family Ties was 2nd in 1986/87, dropped to 17th in 1987/88 after the time slot change, and was below the Top 30 in its final season 1988/89.

In contrast to CBS primetime being a mess from 1986/87 to 2000/01, we saw NBC Thursday dominating primetime from 1984/85 (the start of The Cosby Show which revived both the sitcom genre and NBC primetime on the whole) to 2003/04 (the end of Friends). It's crazy how NBC's Thursday night dominance lasted 20 years.

Lets be real here, CBS was a mess in primetime from 1986/87 season (when Dallas fell out of the Top 10) to 2000/01 season (the start of Survivor and CSI). The only Top 10 drama series CBS had in that era were Murder She Wrote and Touched by an Angel. Sure CBS had these drama series with 3+ season runs that launched between 1985 and 1999: The Equalizer, Beauty and the Beast, Jake and the Fatman, Wiseguy, Tour of Duty, Northern Exposure, Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman, Picket Fences, Walker Texas Ranger, Diagnosis Murder, Chicago Hope, Nash Bridges, JAG, Early Edition, Promised Land, Family Law, Judging Amy, but none of these shows were ratings-grabbers or pop culture phenomenons.

We talk about time slot hits in primetime, but are there any time slot hits in daytime? One could say that Y&R is a time slot hit as it immediately follows The Price is Right in the Central/Mountain/Pacific time zones, and B&B is a time slot hit as it immediately follows Y&R in the Eastern time zone.

CBS fell hard over the course of three seasons. 1984/85 they had 7 out of the Top 10 (technically Top 11) shows and by 1986/87 they were down to only 2 Top 10 shows. The Top 10 fallouts of Simon & Simon and Falcon Crest can be pinpointed by being head-to-head w/ Cheers (which benefitted from its lead ins The Cosby Show and Family Ties being the top 2 of 1985/86) and Miami Vice (which got alot of hype over summer 1985) respectively. Knots Landing didn't have much competition in 1985/86 (head-to-head w/ critically acclaimed but hardly a ratings winner at that point Hill Street Blues, and 20/20) but there was a writing change that season. Crazy Like a Fox was clearly a time slot hit, as it was done once it no longer had Murder She Wrote as its lead in. Dallas fell out of the Top 10 in the aftermath of the "it was all a dream" resolution in the 1986/87 season premiere. That leaves Murder She Wrote and 60 Minutes, and they carried CBS through the rest of the 1980s and well into the 1990s. It must have been a surprise to CBS when Murder She Wrote's first season 1984/85 finished ahead of Knots Landing and Falcon Crest but the real shock was probably when Murder She Wrote's second season 1985/86 finished ahead of Dallas and became CBS's highest rated show (1985/86 was also Murder She Wrote's highest finish ever).

Season finale next week. Listings - QUEENS on ABC | TheFutonCritic.com

@Soapfan8 Favorite female characters: Stephanie, original Caroline, original Sally. Favorite males: none. I can't really count Usher's character because he was more of a celebrity guest for a summer storyline.

Did anyone like Nikki/Brad as a couple? To me it felt like Nikki was afraid of being alone as she was getting older and didn't have much going on in her life at that time (no career, kids were married and on their own), so she settled for Brad. I also think the fear of getting older without having accomplished much in her life lead to Nikki's jealousy over Christine during the time Victor and Christine's friendship was growing. Christine was everything Nikki wasn't: young, intelligent, educated, had a successful career, kind-hearted. There was so much that could've been explored in that brief Nikki/Christine rivalry.

Friends stayed in the Top 10 its entire run. Friends and ER still resulted in time slot hits: Will & Grace one season in the Top 10, Leap of Faith one season in the Top 10 and then done, The Apprentice one season in the Top 10. Oddly enough, ER falls out of the Top 10 once Friends is over.

Y&R 1980: 1 hour expansion. Introductions of Victor, the Williams family, the Abbott family. 1982: H. Wesley Kenney took over as EP from John Conboy. The Brooks and Foster families are phased out, and the Abbott family is expanded. 1982-1983: The season Y&R became CBS's #1 daytime drama. 1984: The transition from the Brooks/Foster era to the Abbott/Newman era is complete and Y&R became Y&R as we know it today. 1986: Cricket became a full time character and proceeded to eat the show for the remainder of the decade. Ed Scott took over as EP from H. Wesley Kenney. Cast purge that continues to the end of 1987. 1988-1989: The season Y&R overtook General Hospital as the overall #1 daytime drama. 1998: Bill Bell stepped down as HW and Kay Alden took over. 2006: John Abbott is killed off and Y&R has not been the same since. B&B 1988: Introduction of Sally Spectra. 1989-1991: Bill Bell built a business and family around Sally. The Logan family would be phased out and replaced by the Spectra gang. 1992: The first Y&R crossover when Sheila turned up alive in Los Angeles. 1993: Bill Bell stepped down as HW and Bradley took over. All 1987: Iran Contra hearings, the first big pre-emption I remember. 1988: Writer's strike, which may have caused alot of storylines to go off track. 1994-1995: The season of OJ. 2020: Covid hiatus.

@soapfan770 I remember the same four primetime episodes you mentioned. @Soapsuds The 1996 primetime episode is where Victor got shot and it was the lead-in to the Daytime Emmys.