kalbir

Today (December 2) is Britney Spears' 40th birthday. Given all she's gone through the last 15 years, I'm honestly surprised she made it to 40. Music-wise, Britney hasn't had a big solo hit since Hold it Against Me, and that was over 10 years ago. In this era of Spotify and TikTok, is a late career comeback in the vein of Believe-era Cher possible?

Budget mode has set in sadly.

@Broderick Allison was the poor man's Vanessa. Bill Bell's best Vanessa re-creation was Stephanie, and we've already discussed the Vanessa/Stephanie parallels in the B&B From the Beginning thread. Surprisingly JoAnna's initial run was longer than Dina's. Marla Adams arrived in 1983 and was gone in 1986, just before the EP switch from H. Wesley Kenney to Ed Scott, while Susan Seaforth Hayes arrived in 1984 and lasted until 1989. I think Susan went back to Days not long after her Y&R run. Would we consider 1990s-now Jill and Nikki in the wealthy messy matriarch category?

@Broderick Once again, I am impressed by your insights. @Paul Raven Let's look at the 1980s messy wealthy matriarchs: Allison, Dina, JoAnna. Allison attempted to control her son Kevin's love life. Dina and JoAnna both abandoned their families and re-entered their lives years later.

@Faulkner I must have missed it. Hopefully during the Christmas episodes the Abbotts remember John. Jerry Douglas deserves at least that much for all he contributed to Y&R for 24 years.

Do you think we'll get some type of memoriam for Jerry Douglas? I don't think I saw one during November.

@Broderick How would you rank Y&R's original messy wealthy matriarchs Jennifer, Katherine, Vanessa?

@divinemotion I wouldn't compare B&B to Dynasty. B&B started on CBS when primetime soaps were past their peak. If any daytime drama tried to be a daytime Dynasty, I'd say it was Santa Barbara; it's NBC premiere in 1984 overlapped with Dynasty at the height of it's popularity. In the 1997 book Worlds Without End: The Art and History of the Soap Opera, Bill Bell Jr. comments on B&B and Y&R around the world. He mentions B&B was a big hit in Italy and Holland while Y&R was not, but the opposite was the case in France and Turkey. He also mentions there wasn't a country where both shows were a big hit; I thought Australia would fall into that category.

I can't believe it's been almost a year since the 12000th episode.

‘The Kings Of Napa’: OWN Reveals Premiere Date & First Teaser – Deadline I'm getting an Empire with grapes feeling from this.

First half was good, second half I felt was the start of B&B tanking. That's why in the fall Sheila returned and Lauren was brought over from Y&R, but 1996-1998 they weren't in each other orbits as much.

EB dropped an F-bomb in a scene? I don't remember that at all. How did that get past the censors? It was a good read. With CLB having been gone for four years after his initial run, I thought the anniversary celebration for him would be his 25th next spring. If Y&R is counting anniversaries from first episodes, looks like next summer we'll be celebrating 40th anniversaries for both Eileen Davidson and Beth Maitland.

@soapfan770 I feel like 11.3 AM was used mostly in the mid 1990s to early 2000s but I don't recall the last time it was used. I remember someone posted here that 11.3 AM should've been used during the Billy/Phyllis affair.

I'm pretty sure that track was used in those scenes 😄

@Broderick Once again, good insights. I'm not a literature connoisseur so I wouldn't have made the connection between Le Morte d'Arthur and the four Ls quad. From clips/episodes I've seen and what I've read of the four Ls, I noticed the contrasts between the siblings: Lance was suave and sophisticated (although John McCook has never appealed to me and I don't find him convincing as a romantic leading man, and that's on both shows) while Lucas was rugged and elemental; Leslie was a kind hearted heroine while Lorie was a jealous vixen. I also think the four Ls quad got derailed when Lance was recast with Dennis Cole; he was not a very good actor from what I've seen. During the Prentiss Industries takeover storyline, there was a scene of Lance and Victor and I could not take Lance seriously as a rival for Victor. Of course during the big cast purge of 1982 the quad came to an end without much of a resolution. Bill Bell did use some of the character elements of the four Ls in the B&B quad. Ridge was supposed to be suave and sophisticated (Ronn Moss is another that has never appealed to me, in both looks and acting) but I didn't get a rugged and elemental vibe from Thorne. Caroline was a kind hearted heroine and Brooke was a jealous vixen. The B&B quad also got derailed by a recast (Thorne with Jeff Trachta), and by an early announced departure (Joanna Johnson) and a real-life pregnancy (Katherine Kelly Lang). Bill Bell ended that quad quickly with Ridge and Caroline's marriage and then set up Brooke/Eric and Thorne/Macy.

@Taoboi EB's got the social media game on lock. I can respect that.

@Broderick I like your insights. What are your thoughts on the quadrangles?

@ChickenNuggetz92 I don't think that music cue was on the 1998 soundtrack. 11.3 AM is my favorite track on the 1998 soundtrack. Whenever that played on the show, we knew something dangerous and forbidden with consequences was about to take place

@ChickenNuggetz92 Were you trying to compose 11.3 AM?

Taylor Swift is the 7th female solo artist to reach 8 #1s on the Billboard Hot 100. The female solo artists to reach 8 or more #1s on the Billboard Hot 100 are Mariah Carey (19), Rihanna (14), Madonna (12), Whitney Houston (11), Janet Jackson (10), Katy Perry (9), Taylor Swift (8). If we do not count Elvis Presley's 11 pre-Billboard Hot 100 #1s, Taylor Swift is the 19th artist to reach 8 or more #1s on the Billboard Hot 100.

After her initial 1983-1986 run, Dina came back in 1991, 1996, 2008 for brief periods. Dina's 2017 return was what the Abbott family needed at that time and she really should've been set up to be Y&R's new grand dame.

Of the original B&B characters as written by Bill Bell, the best were Stephanie and Caroline. Yes we could see the Y&R influences, Stephanie being a Jennifer/Katherine/Vanessa hybrid and Caroline being a Chris/Leslie hybrid, but it was the combination of Bill Bell's writing and the acting of Susan Flannery and Joanna Johnson that made these two characters the most memorable of B&B's early years. Plus if we're keeping it real here, it was easy to ignore Ronn Moss's horrible acting in the first three years of B&B whenever Ridge had a scene with Stephanie or Caroline. For those who watched these original Y&R stories and their B&B versions, how would you compare the two: Chris/Snapper relationship and the surrounding storylines (Chris's rape, Greg falling for Chris) vs. Caroline/Ridge relationship and the surrounding storylines (Caroline's rape, Thorne falling for Caroline). Lance/Lucas/Leslie/Lorie quadrangle with Vanessa in the background vs. Ridge/Thorne/Caroline/Brooke quadrangle with Stephanie in the background.

Wrong thread.

@j swiftI remember that story. It was surprising that Katherine would turn to her nemesis Jill for support during her cancer scare.

If we're being totally honest here, I'd say it's been that way for the better part of the last 25 years. 1996 seemed to be the year when the genre on the whole began its decline.