FrenchBug82

I went to see what she has been up to and barring her brief Days visit in 2018 she hasn't acted since OLTL. She seems to be focusing on her kids. And I can barely recognize her in her pics and that's all I will say about that.

It is a problem when writers don't remember well and end up picking a character that should have known but it is mostly a lazy way for the writers to re-introduce a past character to the part of the audience that wasn't watching then by having someone simply ask "Who dat" and being explained

That's why one never gets to convince younger actors they are making a mistake leaving at the end of their first contract. Because there has been a handful who DID make it so the hundreds who didn't don't matter when you think you have *it*.

Was there anyone at SB that Robin Wright DID like at that point?

Yeah. Fair enough. Because we were talking at the same time as Cricket not knowing about Patty, my instinct was to lump the two types of "not remembering" retcons but I agree that the Eve one was considerably more problematic.

I am not sure their political beliefs differ greatly: Reeves hasn't run for office so she hasn't had to discuss them openly but everything points in the direction of being roughly in the same ballpark Difference however is that Reeves has been said to have said and done things ON-SET that upset and offended crew members while I have never heard anything bad about Brown on a personal level. I have nothing but contempt for both of them politically but it is worth drawing that distinction.

Maybe they are going in the direction of breaking up Quinn and Eric story as the prelude to his retirement. Me thinks Brown is f***ing up by giving away so many details.

I'd add that even without the retcon I find the soap trope of having a character not discuss important parts of their lives with the person they are supposedly madly in love with pretty unappealing. How am I supposed to root for Cricket and Paul if he is not comfortable discussing that he has a sister just because she has a mental illness? What does it say about Paul and what does it say about how much he trusts and feels comfortable with that woman he wants to marry? I would literally dump a guy who I have dated for a significant period of time and who never mentioned he had a sister! Not good writing IMHO. I agree "He doesn't like to talk about her" would have been a fair compromise. As terrible as contemporary writers have been, I often think on how differently "legendary" soap writers would be remembered if there had been Internet and its dynamic back then.

In his defense, as far as retcons go, those were minor. But we do know that Bell was comfortable proactively deciding to pretend a story he wrote and later regretted never happened (see Dru/Malcolm/Lily's paternity).

There was a similar conversation about AMC's Stuart just a few weeks ago. And the answer is simple: as unedifying as the writing for mental illness on soaps has been, it would be worse if a specific diagnosis was given. Because suddenly every trait of the character would be assumed to be that of anyone with that diagnosis and lord knows most diseases can take a lot of different forms for different people. And inversely every trait that doesn't fit the diagnosis would get them a lot of peeved-off letters. Better for them to give themselves a lot of leeway story-wise by staying vague, so they can adapt the disease to their story needs AND not create problems for themselves by inadvertently miseducating the viewing public. So honestly I prefer it that way.

I am interested. Why do you think?

Well, that says more about TB than it does about KB. I don't doubt for a second that there are plenty of people who love KB, and/or get along with her in her personal life. That doesn't make, not just the things she believed and the things she said, but the things she is so committed to that she ran for office to implement, absolutely horrendous, offensive, hurtful and actively problematic. Being friendly and polite and funny and, in her case, talented does not make her any less of (insert epithet here). I am sure John Wayne Gacy was a very entertaining clown. I am glad her fellow rich white friends are comfortable enough in their lives that they can separate her politics from their friendship. But I personally find that a pretty fundamental element of my opinion of someone because the things she advocates hurt/would hurt me and people I love. Sorry but that makes KB not a good person regardless of what other qualities she may have. And, sadly, that makes it hard to separate from Sheila at this time, regardless of her talent and the potential of the character which is indeed big if they don't reduce her to the psycho villain. On the upside, considering how much mileage she has gotten with "I have been cancelled as an actress since I spoke at the RNC! Boo hoo" in interviews (as if her career as an actress had involved anything other than Sheila the past twenty years), I am sure that if she is brought back, she will retract her statements about cancel culture. Right? Right? Surely.

There has definitely been unnecessary ugliness aimed at her and that's why I understand the defensiveness. In any case I am delighted we end up almost entirely in the same place, which frankly I suspected all along.

Do an Murder on the Orient-Express type of story. Everybody gets a shot and it is impossible to know which one is the fatal one.

OK I have established I liked Giz so maybe I am biased but that's why I never quite understood why Monique's receipts were supposed to be shade at Gizelle. If any of it is true then Gizelle is the victim and it makes me feel sorry for her, not hate her. Ironically, many blind items in the months before the season she announced she got back with him had hinted that the reason Gizelle "got back" with him was 1) she did not really but she made a deal with him because 2) because she needed a storyline and he needed a reputation laundering. I always expected THAT to be the T Monique was going for because it would kind of make sense and it would be embarrassing if she alleged it was all false for the cameras. But "Gizelle is an idiot for taking this cheater back" is not the embarrassing shade Monique seems to think it is. Now we know why Monique is pressed. I will grant you Gizelle should have simply said she didn't want to film with Monique anymore after what had happened - which would have been fair - instead of her stupid (see, I am not that biased!) comment about how "as a pastor's wife" she can't be associated with Monique and her behavior. But, man, if the response to that is to STILL be litigating Gizelle's husband's infidelities something like a year later, Monique, girl, take a breath and move on.

I still don't understand why they wrote her out. Money, I guess. I would have understood if they had brought Missy back soon after - I would have been disappointed but I would have understood. This weird phone thing is a bit dumb though. If she is still in then use her.

I fully agree with all of this. Considering how long they dragged Quinn's dilemna about her attraction to Ridge, I wish they had either taken a bit more time to establish her as conflicted about cheating on Eric if they wanted the story to be about that or their tryst be wild animalistic "I need to get some now" incontrollable urge - which based on Carter's character would make more sense that it was a "All the blood left my brain" moment. This weird hybrid was a bit of a bummer. I have always given credit to B&B that with Brooke, they have given space to a more honest depiction of female sexuality. Fans could always debate their interpretation of her "morality" but it was rare enough to see a female character be explicit that she liked sex and she wasn't ashamed of it. I was hoping that that honest blunt tone about women and sex would be part of the story. Of course we shall see how it is covered post-coitus.

Yes. Many absolutely are. I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. These people (minus Nikki whose crime was accidental) are all awful people - and so is Phyllis. The reason she is in the higher echelon is because she has attempted murder which only Kevin and now Chelsea have done - Michael somewhere around there too depending on interpretation of events. But yes. I am not saying she is unique in being a psychopath. I am saying she is. Not sure why liking her must involve denying the obvious and frankly this is what the defensiveness around that particular comment on her "smile" rings like. Yes, that commenter was clearly coming from an ugly place and I am not entirely comfortable with it and I am not sure the "smile" was really that worthy of getting as angry about as they did. But I didn't find the response particularly convincing either. Phyllis is a psycho and I don't find her likeable as a character, even if she sometimes has been interesting. All fair game to say and point out (and for you to disagree with!) And our completely objective opinions often involve double-standards. Many Phyllis fans will detest Adam when there is no fair reason to find one morally superior to the other. Works all ways! But that's part of the fabric of life. We react differently to different people. OK Now you are conflating stuff. First we 100% entitled to detest and criticize a character based on their actions on-screen. If we are not talking about our opinions of FICTIONAL characters, then what are we doing here? That's silly. I am not exactly sure what you are arguing we should be doing. I don't really go about insulting characters but we sure as hell are entitled to call them psycho when they try to murder people. And don't go about confusing the limited criticisms I have made - sometimes purposefully narrowing the topic compared with broader a lot more aggressive comments - with some of the irrational cross-the-line stuff that has been posted. Indeed, where we 100% agree is about not insulting an actor/ress. You will note I have not done that - and have tried to pull back the other posters who are going there. I don't know MS and while I am not a fan of the scientology stuff and some of the BTS stories I have heard, I have never called her any names or made any assumptions about who she is as a person. I detested the comment that was made about her "aging". Not only is it silly (she looks fantastic) but it is beyond the pale. I do raise my hand and say I do not like MS's acting. And it makes Phyllis more grating to me than when she was played by an actress that I found better. That was my point. It is not a personal insult and we are entitled to judge the acting of performers. She has a lot of fans, have had a great career and been up for many awards. I am sure the fact her acting style is off-putting to me won't keep her up at night. I never went personal and I don't approve of those who do - and there are certainly people who have crossed the line into unnecessary viciousness on MS in this thread. You have my backing on that and I understand that may be why there is some defensiveness in return. But judgement about a character or acting are fair game. Personal attacks are not and I have not indulged in them. All the stuff about MS personally, her age, her looks or whatever are uncool and inappropriate. You will recall I said the same when Grossman was in the crosshair a month or so ago. But don't direct that pushback at me because I didn't go there. My criticisms were narrow and IMO fair game: Phyllis is a psycho and I liked her better when she was played by someone whose acting I responded better to. I completely agree with that as I tried to express above. I am not a Phyllis fan but I completely embrace that she is part of the fabric of the show and there is no reason she couldn't be more interesting with better writing. I'd still find her irritating - and she'd still be a psycho - but at least I'd be interested to see what they do with her. The petty out-of-nowhere vendetta against Sally isn't it. Bingo. And they don't have to be particularly rational or coherent. Part of it is just subjective and that's OK. Some people are certainly more vehement than they should be about FICTIONAL characters and some people translate their fair likes/dislikes onto personal insults towards performers. I ain't cool with that but we also can choose what we engage and not engage with

Carl T. Evans debuted in July 1987 which would make the auditions sometimes in the late spring 1987. Brad Pitt's Dallas appearances were in December 1987-January 1988, presumably shot sometimes in the fall. So it does not overlap. PS: Looks like we posted at the exact same time

Not that I wouldn't totally high-five her for that rationale but indeed that would not be good characterization for a TV show

I will somehow defend MS and Phyllis here and say that's not their fault. That is undoubtedly the writing. They brought her back in the circumstances we know and they have no idea what to do with her. The current stuff ain't it. I am fine with a character being unlikeable or irritating if I see the point. Plenty of times over the years was I completely over Phyllis but I *got it*. I got what story they were telling and what her place was on the show. This Sally vendetta just reads as "keeping her occupied" rather than a real character-driven plot.

I hear you but schemes work when they are organic. From past experience with soaps, when they pair schemers together, writers then tend to look for schemes for them to get into rather than give them stories and then let the tendency to scheme flow from those. The scheming becomes the point of the character rather than a way the character deals with things that happen. That's what I am worried about here but it is way premature for me to bitch about it. So far so good.

It was an unexpected idea (and I like when shows put two characters I wouldn't have thought of together) and I like it but I wonder what they can do with them as a couple. The way WR walked into that elevator and that overdramatic turn... Man I can't imagine what the other actors must be thinking.

I am with you. I was fine with Phyllis, warts and all, when GT was playing her. But Phyllis' personality coupled with MS's, hum, idiosyncracies and my tolerance level goes way down. That being said, she is part of the canvas and, while I think she has been used horribly the past few years, she belongs on the show. But I'll be damned if her out-of-nowhere vendetta against Sally is not extremely unsympathetic. It rings hollow when she acts as if she is superior to Sally, considering how much worse she has done, but at least hypocrisy is part of the characters. Hearing fans whitewash her past is more puzzling to me: it is OK to like her but she is still a piece of work!

Well, she is a psychopath. She attempted to commit murder twice. You're free to take whichever side in the battle with Sally but the "I hate Phyllis" crowd will always win *that* argument on whether she is a psycho.