GLATWT88

P&G seem to have its soaps on opposite ends...AW, ATWT, GL, SFT at the top and EON and FR,FP sunk at the bottom.

I feel like that's where they were headed with the Dream season. It seemed like JR was finally realizing he wanted a family with Sue Ellen and John Ross. Of course, Sue Ellen after the explosion would have been a real test to JR's motives. Upon it being a dream, they were right back to the end of season 8 and there was no way they would rehash JR coming to the same realization.

Haha. Well yes, I'm not sure why he disliked Gary so much. But he was fiercely protective of his mother and she was pretty much the only one he respected. Then of course his son. The Dream Season did start to build this more tender side of JR - one who truly loved his family even Sue Ellen, but that all disappeared. There were many things wrong with JR... I believe he truly loved Sue Ellen, but he just couldn't be faithful. I hated how he pushed the bottle on her and used it against her. I thought that was absolutely disgusting. However, there are many times where you did see honest love between the two. He unfortunately expected too much from Sue Ellen and wanted her to accept his infidelity and sit by and play the role of loving wife. Cliff and Afton were great, only because Afton called Cliff on his [!@#$%^&*]. I truly loved the way Afton's character evolved in the series. Cliff used Afton and while he may have eventually developed feelings for her, he never gave her what she wanted or needed because he was always so consumed by his feud with the Ewings. He also threw her sleeping with some guy (can't recall the name) in her face even though it was Cliff's idea. Cliff was selfish and always thought of himself and was entirely consumed by his hatred for the Ewings. Same with Jamie. He completely used her and married to use for his advantage. JR was a ruthless business man and he had many flaws. I feel like his relationship with Bobby was tense, because he believed he should run Ewing Oil alone. He knew that he wasn't Jocks favorite and going into those oil fields and running the business were his way of getting his father's love and acceptance. That's why he fought so hard for it.

It would have been an interesting dynamic to explore. When I think of that The Movie Villain/The Actual Villain meme - I always see JR as the series villain, but Cliff as the actual villain. JR is blindly motivated by his love for Ewing Oil and what it means to his family. Sure, he does some questionable and awful things but at his core he really does care about his family. Meanwhile, Cliff seems willing to screw anyone over if it means defeating JR. Wow, thank you! I love this and I have to say I agree. I was really surprised by the manner Kit's coming out was handled.

Watching Dallas, I was surprised by how well Kit's homosexuality was treated on the show. Considering it was done in 1979, it was handled with care and reality. No character, not even JR if I remember correctly, was disgusted by Kit's sexuality. Kit also comes to this realization that he needs to live honestly for himself and be who he is. No getting help or needing fixing. However, there were no other gay characters after that. I'm sure the AIDS outbreak didn't help towards queer representation, but I will say that Dallas did a good job. 🤣 I'm sure in retrospect it is. However, I've been here waiting for seasons to see her center photo updated and have realized it's not going to happen.

Of the long running cast, did Victoria Principal have the fewest changes to her center photo in the opening credits. Her center photo was the same from season 3-10. I'm sure Steve Kanaly and Ken had more.

I imagine that being quite difficult. I don't know if I would want it to move into a more serious drama and tone like Bel Air, but I feel like Bel Air has done such a great job of maintaining the integrity of the original but making it its own. It would also be easy to integrate veteran cast into the college setting while blending in a new cast.

I'm surprised this hasn't been reboot or a re-imagined like Bel Air.

I'm curious to get your opinions on season 10 - 14. I started off really enjoying season 9, but struggled to finish it and that could have been due to many factors. I do have a lot going on now, but for some reason when I did have time, I just couldn't finish an episode or would watch bits and would finish later. So far I'm enjoying season 10. But I've just started and I don't know much about the later seasons. Am I in for a bit of disappointment.

It's obvious that Melissa played Teresa, and since Teresa can't express herself well she always ends up looking bad. Now, I'm not saying that Teresa is innocent in this whole decade long mess, but I do feel like Melissa has gotten the good edit and she's definitely played the victim well. Production knew about the Melissa cheating allegations prior to the season, because Laura was speaking to anyone that would listen that includes both cast and production. Producers knew that they would run with this story and clearly so did the entire cast. We all know that cameramen aren't just set loose to film these women without a storyline or plan. However, they needed to bring the story onto the show "authentically" and since Marge wouldn't bring it up as that would get blood on her hands, production had Teresa and Jen do it by speaking to Laura. Louie and Teresa had given Joe the heads up, considering his wife cheating on him was going to be the story. Danielle was always going to reveal the secret and it was obvious by the way Melissa and Rachel were pushing her so hard to spill at Dolores' party. Meanwhile, Melissa and Marge are no fools and they knew they needed to plot to save themselves and what better way than using Teresa as a scapegoat. By saying Teresa was doing this to ruin a family, the heat was taken off Marge who was the culprit all along for spreading the rumor and Melissa could weaken the validity of the rumors because why wouldn't Teresa who she's been feuding with for a decade and doesn't want to make her whole wedding about her want to ruin her marriage. You can see the shock in Teresa's expression when Melissa once again beat her to the punch and made her out to be the bad guy. Unfortunately, Teresa can't just spill and break fourth wall, but she also doesn't know how to fight back with words.

I would love to see how these stories would be approached with a modern touch. I feel that a lot of great moments that should have appeared on camera happened off camera and im not sure if that was due to budget or as a means to push story along. There were several times I remember feeling that certain moments in season 7 and 8 should have happened on camera that were just told to us or fast forwarded.

I wonder if Duffy's return helped keep ratings from sliding in season 10 like the other soaps. While I believe season 9 finished 6th for the season and Season 10 finished 11th, overall ratings were pretty similar for both seasons. The slip from 6 to 11 had more to do with other shows gaining in popularity rather than Dallas having a significant dip. I do wonder if the departures in season 10 caused the drop in season 11. I haven't watched the earlier seasons in some time, but after reading through the thread, I'm trying to recall if only the miniseries or if season 2 was self contained episodes.

Season 8, JR calls in a favor and gets someone to convince Pam that Mark is in the Caribbean. He flies her out to some clinic where a doctor or fraud was paid off to lie to Pam that Mark was originally at the clinic, but the facility/doctors couldn't help him so he went elsewhere. She ends up going to another clinic in the Caribbean and speaks with another doctor. I believe the person hired by JR eventult tells Pam the truth when she returns to Dallas. Meanwhile, this second legit doctor she met in the Caribbean while in a conference with doctors in Texas shared Pam's story with a doctor who believes he knows someone fitting Mark's description checked into a clinic in Hong Kong. My understanding is that Mark caught wind that Pam was on his trail and he wasn't ready for her to find him so he paid off some guy to scam Pam into thinking he could sneak her into the hospital to see Mark but it turns out to be someone else. My understanding was that this was meant to dissuade Pam from continuing her search. Yeh, Naldo's death is interesting. I'm trying to recall what the motive would have been to kill Naldo and not Jenna.

Fascinating. Do you know if a Patrick Duffy return was teased for the finale? Or was it a compete surprise to audiences?

Sorry to sidetrack a bit, although it was fascinating to read about this novelization and all the background and plots that didn't make it onto the series. Also, @Khan that was amazing...I legit gasped at the Bobby revelation. Can anyone help me understand the loose ends of season 9. We had the finale with Pam waking up and Bobby in the shower. Clearly, this meant a lot of what was building in season 9 was dropped. Were we supposed to have some sort of resolution with this Ben Stivers character? What was his connection to the Ewings going to be? Punk and Ellie thought he looked familiar and he had that scar on his throat. They brought the actor back in a different role the next season which was odd IMO. Donna and Ray were in a good space and adopted a son. I actually enjoyed Sue Ellen and JR coming together. It would have been nice to see more of that in season 10 before of course another spat would inevitably arise. Was the intent to kill Jamie all along? Had season 9 not been a dream, would we have Jamie back for season 10 surviving the explosion? Or did they have to bring Jamie back because of the dream and thus needed to find a new way to off her. I'm going to assume they were done with the character and therefore opted to kill her again the next season and ultimately the character was always supposed to die season 9. I do feel there was so many things they could have done with Jamie. Pretty sure Sue Ellen was always going to survive that explosion if storylines had continued onto season 10. It would have been fascinating to see the outcomes of Jamie and Sue Ellen instead of going back a year. Where would Jenna have gone from there? Maybe a love triangle with Jack and another woman.

Yeh, I remember it turning out that she was Dusty's mother and had killed Amy.

Why was it that Clayton didn't speak to her or want her at the wedding?

I haven't watched the later seasons so I may have to take this back as I work my way through the series, but I am glad Season 9 is a dream. Although, not planned from the beginning, it just makes sense that it would be. There's just too many outlandish plots happening at once. - Mark actually being alive. Let's say he did plot his own death to spare others, but then there's too many other things happening this season that just are too much. - A whole convoluted story with Marinos Shipping involving Jack and Dimitri and Angelica Nero tied in with J.R. that just has too many random twists and asks viewers to take too many leaps. - Everyone thinking Jenna's mourning of Bobby to be extreme, yet it's only been a short time since Bobby's passing and none of her actions besides wanting to go see Bobby (his gravesite) in the middle of the night (which was in a stressful moment for her and I don't feel was too irrational) are abnormal. This ties in well with this being Pamela's dream imo - Pamela being kidnapped in a jungle- plausible. Pamela acting like nothing's happened and being okay with Mark's suggestion that they go visit the potential emerald site the very next day after being held hostage and in a very traumatic situation - insane. Again, ties in well with this being Pamela's dream.

I feel that Jamie and Jack were introduced at the right moment with show popularity still high and they came with ties to the Ewings. Jack even secured himself 10 percent of Ewing Oil. As you said, Jamie's introduction was quite strong building a connection with lonely Sue Ellen and having a rivalry with J.R. over the dispute of Ewing shares. Plus, her story with Cliff could have gone many ways. Jamie and Jack could have served as anchors as you said, considering we would see major exits in a few years from Victoria Principal and Linda Gray, they could have been a smoother transition for later seasons on the show. I hated Afton's sudden exit as well because I really grew to like the character. I feel the character was wasted toward the end and given little to do even though there was so much potential. Charlene's acting early on was rough, but I do feel she could have added some value to Knots. Season 8 and 9 feel different than previous seasons. There's a bit more humor or light moments infused into scenes. Sue Ellen's drunk on the streets of Dallas felt camp. I know with Dallas we were seeing the genre evolve through its seasons.

I would love to stream Knots Landing anywhere at any quality, but it's nowhere. I'm currently watching season 9 of Dallas and have some questions/comments: 1. Was it always intended to bring the character Mark Graison back for season 9, or did Patrick Duffy's exit push this storyline? Pam's search for Mark seemed to end a bit abruptly in season 8 IMO and then Bobby and Pam rekindle before he's killed. 2. Pam has a photo of Bobby at her desk when she returns to work after Bobby's death. I thought this was odd considering she had Mark's photo in her office last season and was searching for him. Bobby and Pam only got together briefly at the end of last season and she hadn't even into work since. I guess it can easily be explained away by saying it was all a dream and nothing necessarily needed to make sense. 3. How far into the season before it was realized that it would all be Pam's dream? 4. I'm really early into the season so this can be a poor assumption, but I'm not sure why Priscilla Presley is being kept around beyond a few episodes and in the opening credits as a lead because she has been quite secondary thus far. I feel like Jamie and Jack have more going on than Jenna and they're only listed after the opening credits. I love Priscilla Presley tho. She's done such a great job with the character.

Thank you! I was curious to see ratings for the soap premieres for the 1985/6 season considering their strong overall performance the previous season. Dallas, Dynasty, Hotel and Knots premiered week ending September 29 and Falcon Crest the following week. Wonder if Falcon Crest's later premiere hurt it. Not surprised that MacGyver's series premiere didn't do well up against the season premiere of Murder, She Wrote.

@Soapsuds Would you happen to have the ratings for the weeks ending September 29 and October 6, 1985? Thanks.

Yes! It looks so good.

I currently finished season 7 of Dallas and started season 8. Season 8 is when Dallas gets overtaken by Dynasty in the year end ratings due to its audience steadily growing with each season. I wonder how much this may have impacted the direction of Dallas. I noticed the fashion in season 7 of Dallas to have become a bit more dramatic for lack of a better word, and more so in season 8. Everyone is wearing a hat, shoulder pads on everything, turbans, etc. I wonder if this was just merely a reflection of the time or if Dallas was "inspired" by its competitor. Similarly, season 8 feels a bit different as far as pacing compared to previous seasons (at least so far) and season 7 did bring about this cattyness between Pam and Katharine and Pam and Jenna, that usually was written in a more subtle way. Giving Donna to step in for Bobby was a good way to give her this power woman feel, which she seemed to have at first but faded with more recent seasons.

Look at Knots getting those Live+7 day ratings before that was a thing 😄 Interestingly, I remember Melrose and BH getting quite of bit of play post run. I wonder what may have played into 90s soaps fairing better in syndication. I do feel that 90s soaps tend to have a faster pace and are a big more theatrical so can feel more exciting in isolation. You can get swept into the action without the context. Also, cable was notorious for marathons so being able to binge several episodes at once could have helped to engage viewers.