GLATWT88

The best move would have been for Edge to go to NBC and placed right after AW. It may have prevented AW's expansion - solving another NBC catastrophe. EON was an established soap, AW's lead in would have been good for Edge as AW's numbers were strong at the time of EON's transition. The most important factor would be clearance, but NBC seemed pretty good at that. Even low rated Texas and Doctors maintained strong clearance in spite of their numbers unlike soaps on the other networks.

That's surprising and would have ended in disaster most likely. All soaps had been losing ground since the mid 1980s. A new soap wasn't going to solve the issues which led to these decreases. I always say that it's a testament to GL's quality that it performed so well in the late 70s and early 80s up against GH's peak. It was a very consistent soap from 71 - 84, maintaining a steady rating in the 8s (and obviously it was wildly successful in the 50s and 60s but those were different times and conditions). To maintain in the Top 5 soaps during GH's strongest years and with insane numbers is truly incredible. It wasn't until 84/5 that the numbers took a drop, but this is true for the soaps in general. Just as the 1984/5 season was the peak for primetime soaps, I believe it to be the peak for daytime soaps as well. 1984 was also the peak of daytime revenue in ad sales. There was a steady decrease for the rest of the decade, in sales and viewership. In fact in 1994 and 1995, there were weeks where GL was still beating both ATWT and BB in the demo. While the numbers for GL dipped in the mid 80s. From 1985 - 1994, it was a very middle performing soap. It wasn't performing at the bottom and wasn't too far off other more established soaps. It wasn't AW or RH. It also shows what good writing could do that GL jumped .4 rating from 90/91 to 91/92 season. Furthermore, YR and BB were rare cases in the soap world. Of all the soaps to debut in the 1970s - 90s, only AMC, RH, YR and BB experienced much success. The rest pretty much stayed at the bottom of the ratings. One other exception which I personally feel performed well was Capitol and it wasn't given much a shot, but its success could have come down to scheduling (same could be said for BB). I am a firm believer that scheduling was a huge factor in the success and demise of soaps in the 1970s and 1980s. Also, SB had a bit of success, but it never left the bottom either. While I think investing in the quality and rejuvenation of the soaps was a good idea, and probably thanks to Bell not taking the offer, I don't think CBS went about it in the right way. I definitely don't think replacing GL and ATWT would have ended up getting CBS what it wanted as the truth was that the numbers just wouldn't be there for a new soap in the 90s. We saw it for The City, PC, SuBe, Passions. Not only did GL have to suffer through preemptions due to OJ in 1995. It also had to contend with a 10am timeslot move in major markets.

No, there was no change at all. By the 2000s stunt casting wasn't going to save a soap. Even two years later when Joan Van Ark joined YR, it didn't make a dent. I agree. Somewhere around 2005 things just changed. A lot of familiar faces would leave and the show just felt different. The end was inevitable. The numbers just weren't there and they weren't coming back, but maybe the should have let the show wrap up with a bit more dignity.

@dc11786 when did you stop watching? It's wild how so many things changed or were scrapped because of the cuts. I do remember a lot of cast changes around 2005 and the show did unfortunately begin to feel different. I remember taking a break mid-2006 for a few months, not because I wasn't enjoying it, but I just had too much going on. When I finally did come back the show just felt so different. Then when Peapack happened, I just couldn't take seeing what happened to the production value. I know some people say it got better, but it was so hard to watch at first.

Thank you!!!

Do we have any actual figures in regard to these cuts. I know visually the show looked "cheaper" after this, but it was still okay. I rewatched some 2003 episodes and I'm surprised by the sets and extras...2005 definitely reeled that in.

@dc11786 @Donna L. Bridges 😂 at the tapes. Nowadays, shows almost hope you have tapes to generate some attention on social media. I enjoyed the younger scene around that time too, like Sandy, Tammy, Marina... Jonathan didn't sit well with me. I know that he got a lot of recognition, but Tom Phelphry's acting and interpretation of the character was really obnoxious to me. Maybe that's what he was going for, but it was so manic at times.

Now that you mention it, the setup definitely had a Three's Company feel.

Speaking of 1980, where was the intent behind bringing on Darcy, Alan, and Brad? Do you think they were trying to freshen things up?

Yep, Conboy and Ellen were involved. Both would only last a few more months by the time the above episode aired. Actually, Conboy walked off GL sometime in December 2003 and returned, but not for much longer. It was Marty West in the role of Shayne...what about wrestling tapes 🤔

Where? 🙏

So I was on a ratings spiral the other day and noticed an outlier week for GL in the W 18-49 rating for the week of December 29-2003 - Jan. 2, 2004. GL scored an impressive 2.1 in the demo. What makes this impressive is that the last time GL scored a 2.1 was on the week of Jan. 14 2002 - almost a whole two years earlier. Also, January 2002, would be the last time GL would score a 2.0 or higher in the demo (besides the week of 2003/4 posted below). Furthermore, GL scored mostly between the range of 1.4 - 1.7 in the demo in 2002 and 2003. The week before positing a 2.1, it scored a 1.6 in the demo, so a significant .5 gain over the previous week. I remember bits of this week and not thinking much of it. I didn't find the character of Shayne well utilized in GL and don't even know if I was ever that invested. I also can't remember caring much for Marah and Jeffrey either, but I'm also quite forgetful. I'm curious on your takes on this. Also, credit to Jason47 for the ratings info. I actually liked Harley. It wasn't until I joined this board that I heard pretty negative stuff about the character and actress. It made me wonder a bit if I was wrong.

It feels like a lot of the damage done to soaps in the 70s/early 80s came down to scheduling. Very poor decisions by execs which ultimately ended up destroying some great soaps.

Not necessarily a favorite (but might be), but the first thing that came to mind was Sami on DAYS being slapped several times in the 90s.

I wonder how much of this was aided by DAYS success around that time. DAYS saw a significant ratings jump in 95 and then spent most of 96 and 97 at the top in the 18-49 demo. Also to be noted, DAYS and AW are the only two soaps to maintain or gain in ratings from the 1994/5 season through the 1995/6 and 1996/7 season. A trend that was definitely not occurring with the other soaps which saw incredible drops. YR did go up a tenth in the 1995/6 season but then saw a significant drop the next season.

She looks incredible.

In the 80s thread, AW rated higher than DAYS the week of Jan. 28, 1980. There are also several weeks posted where AW tied or is only one tenth of ratings point below DAYS.

Edge of Night beating the entire NBC lineup and with only 81% clearance.

Thank you for sharing this. It is a true delight.

I feel like AW wasn't cancelled sooner because there was a lot of respect and care for it. AW had a terrific early run and was a ratings darling, garnering lots of fans and loyal viewers as well as those that cared for it for many years. However, by its first expansion it was starting to limp and by the second expansions' end it was in a catastrophic state. The numbers were truly awful. From the end of AW's 30 minute run (expansion to 60 minutes) to AW's retrun to 60 minutes (end of 90 minute episodes), it had lost 5 whole ratings points, going from a 9.7 to a 4.7 in a short period. Once it returned to 60 minutes, it saw a small boost which continued through the mid 80s, but by the end of the 80s it was back where it ended its 90 minute episodes. Needless to say that AW was more costly than the other soaps that were performing at the same level. With NBC never getting daytime quite right after the mid 70s, it probably felt more secure holding onto AW in its schedule than completely destroying what was left. I personally feel that AW was allowed to go on as long as it did because NBC just couldn't seem to get it right and because there was such love and care for it. TBH I feel like a lot of soaps beginning in the 90s probably went on longer than they would otherwise, because daytime execs didn't really know what to do with the changing daytime TV viewership. Loving, The City, Santa Barbara, Sunset Beach, PC were probably given more of a chance then they would have otherwise had because of this huge shift.

I think too much emphasis is put on AW transitioning to a 90 minute format as the reason for its demise, but this change was the straw that ultimately broke AW's back. Days, ATWT, GL and AW all saw a bit of decline when they transitioned to hour long programs in the mid 70s. This could be for many factors - housewives not wanting to dedicate a whole hour when they were used to half that time, viewers switching to other soaps they had previously watched that their now extended soap was cutting into, viewer fatigue, transition hiccups as this was a new way of storytelling for writers who now needed to fill a whole hour, or any other number of reasons. As I mentioned previously, GL's expansion placed it in direct competition with AW. While it's expansion in 1977 may have caused a dip in ratings, by mid 78 and onward GL was picking up and had several weeks where it finished number 1 for the week. This competition against AW would only hurt it more as GH around the same time was experiencing a massive ratings boost. GH finished the 78/79 season with a nearly 2 point increase over 77/78 season. OLTL also saw a healthy increase in the same timeframe. All of these soaps competing directly against AW. AW drops over 1 point. From 1979-81, GL, OLTL and GH are all on fire and continued to increase their numbers. Meanwhile, AW which was already struggling with stiff competition decided it was best to attempt a 90 minute program before fixing things at 60 mins. AW was in hot water before its expansion but those 90 minutes truly just destroyed it. It was confusing for viewers, it wasn't practical, and it was up against tough competition.

That's incredible! Thank you so much for your work.

It didn't help that AW was scheduled in direct competition to OLTL and GH right as the ABC lineup was blowing up in popularity. This was only worsened by GL changing its timeslot to also directly compete with AW. GL was performing well around this time. AW had the benefit of only facing direct competition from ABC (OLTL/GH) from 1973-1977 as no CBS soap was programmed against it during these years. Around this time OLTL and GH were mid-ranking soaps and not too much of a threat to AW. As GH became a cultural phenomenon and the ABC lineup rose to dominance, it may have attracted even some of the more loyal and curious AW fans over. Around the same time GL expands to an hour and is now also in direct competition with AW. GL was bringing in pretty solid numbers around this time and for a few years after. So in 1978, not only is AW going through some creative changes, it is also facing massive competition from OLTL and GH and to boot has a CBS soap programmed against it as well.

Incredible numbers for Guiding Light! The clearance for LOL is awful.

I assume networks thought it was a safer bet to expand soaps that were working instead of filling a slot with a new soap that might potentially fail. I wonder what the cost difference is for running an hour long soap vs 2 half hour soaps. I always hoped that GL would have reverted to half an hour before it got to the Peapack era. ATWT could have done the same and both could have filled an hour time slot. Same could have been done for OLTL and AMC.