Soaplovers

5 hours ago, Broderick said:

I'm crazy about Marland, but his primary weakness is definitely all that awkward exposition.  lol.  And he brings it upon himself; it's a self-inflicted wound he could easily avoid. 

In the latest episode posted, check out the scene at 44:50.  What theoretically should be a two-person scene showcasing the anxiety and fear of the two oldsters (Adam & Barbara), culminating in their horror when Holly drops the phone, is shot to hell by Marland's trope of "herd mentality" and "over-exposition".  

Marland brings Bert and Kelly into the scene simply to provide exposition.  It could be handled entirely by Adam.  ("Adam, I thought I heard the phone."  "Yes, that was Bert.  She wanted us to know Mike and Ed caught an early morning flight to the Dominican Republic.")  The director is forced to shoot 4 characters in a two-character scene, which results in poor Bert having to sit in that chair that matches her outfit and also matches the bricks just beyond the chair.  Kelly practically has to sit in Bert's lap.  And then the exposition becomes so clunky, Charita and Bob Milli understandably get tangled up in it and are left standing there flailing their arms and trying to get it back on track.  "So Mike talked to Rita?"  "Yes, Rita told Michael ..."  "What did Rita say?"  In my opinion, every bit of that dialogue could've been handled by Barbara and Adam, in a slower, more realistic manner while they wondered if Mike and Ed had arrived yet, and whether they should call Holly to check on her.  

Didn't Adam and Barbara divorce because of Roger?  There could have been more subtext and tension between them because of their failed marriage..and I assume he was already dating Sara at that time.

I remember Denise Pence in one of her videos about GL stated that the Debson's had an outline of plot and plot points...but let the script writers decide how to implement them vs Marland...who didn't seem to do that.

@DRW50the reason the Kelly/Nola/Kelly story worked was because of what Kristen V and Lisa Brown put into their characters.

Also, seeing the March 1980 episodes...I liked this Nola.  Confident and smart...and she had chemistry with Mark Arnold. 

@Khan I didnt think Marland was horrible at GL...just that I didnt think he was a good fit for the show.

ATWT seemed cold/reserved...like you were at a country club or in a bar in New England.  They allow you in, but only to observe and not join their clique.

GL seemed more like a Bar in Chicago or in Texas.  Warm, fun, and maybe a bit messy...but very welcoming.

Marland seemed able to mimic the energy/pace of those he replaced for the first year or so especially in the plotlines he inherited...but his plotlines were either too complicated or too analytical without any heart.

The Reardons had more warmth and energy when Pam Long wrote them vs when Marland wrote them.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I haven't seen enough of the full story to completely weigh in, but I don't think the Carrie story was worth Diane's murder, especially as Carrie was boxed into a corner early on.

Admittedly, Diane would have just been dumped in 1982, 1983, or 1984 if she had lived...

I don't know...I think Pam Long would have found a character like Diane interesting to write...but I suspect Gail Kobe would have found a way to drive her off the show.

Carrie was a poorly written and developed character...she would be known as a propped character.  Jane Elliot was not made to play a nice character.

I can suss out the weakness in the day to day scripts that plagued all of Marland's run shows (too much talking/exposition). but they appear not to be so noticeable in these March 1980 episodes... probably because Marland was carrying out the Dobson stories.

Killing off Diane Ballard was a boneheaded move of Marland's.  

Potomac:

Since Mia might escape the axe sadly...who would you all decide to fire and/or demote?

Miami:

@NothinButAttitude

I did sample part 1 of Mamacita just to see if I would like the vibe and I was intrigued.  Though I dont like shows that keep casts in tact so I hope there will be a slight cast shift in season 7.

What did scare me about this episode is that I agreed with Larsa.  Why have a reminder to check in on your boyfriend and then tell him she has a reminder to call and ask about his feelings.

I think this will be an unpopular opinion..but I have no sympathy for Lisa.  Seeing how she is with her new man, I can see why Lenny checked out and cheated.

She knew the score when getting with Lenny and is now crying foul when the hourglass on her being a trophy wife ran out.  

And deep down, I think she had the kids as insurance to ensure he keep money coming.  Lenny needs to make sure stipulations are in place to ensure that money is used for the kids only...not for Lisa to use for instacart, etc.

And Ill have to watch KiKi being honest with Lisa about her trauma dumping.

Bond's Jill had a confidence about her...a hunger to be taken serious.  She didn't have the softness that Brenda pre 1980 nor Deborah Adair had.

Her Jill seemed more a cross of Adair's Jill and Jess Walton's Jill

@Cat @NothinButAttitudeI'd watch Miami...but only if Larsa is fired.  I just cant look at her

Best & Worst of the Housewives 2023 

BEST RETURN: Tamra Judge, RHOC :  Tamra is a rat, but she's our rat and she does know how to stir a pot better then anyone else I've seen.

WORST RETURN: Dorinda  RHUGT.  There is a reason she was put on pause and her two seasons on the UGT really highlight that she's just a mean person.. rather she's sober or drunk.

BEST FRIEND OF: Jenn Fessler, RHONJ.  I wish I could have said Taylor Armstrong, but that wasn't to be.   Jenn was just quirky, wacky, and kind of had realistic responses to the drama surrounding her.

BEST EXIT (Tie): Lisa Rinna, RHOBH and the OG cast of RHONY: 

It was time for Lisa to go because she'd told her story and stirred the pot one too many times.  Sutton has nicely inherited the pot stirring duties and is doing beautifully thus far.   

It was time for the NY housewives to take a pause because it was tired and needed a rest... plus Leah/Eboni killed it.  I think just featuring the OG on UGT is a beautiful compromise.  

BEST NEWCOMER: Jenn RHOC.  I was so happy to see the franchise go back to basics when looking for a new housewife and cast a Lauri Waring lookalike.. only without her talent for finding a fat wallet.   She has her own Slade (Ryan), kids, an ex, and she was the latest blonde haired target of Tamra... yet she had a backbone and didn't let Tamra get the best of her.

WORST NEWCOMER: Annemarie Wiley, RHOBH. I nickname her Try Hard Marie because she's coming in too quickly before we have a chance to get to know her.  And the fact she's friends with Vyle Kyle and is acting like her bodyguard tells me all I need to know.

BEST TREND: Guest Appearances.  The OC used to do return visits from the housewives of the past.. and I hope they one day do that again (The season 4 finale party was the gold standard for guest appearances on a housewife show).   I did like Camille, Denise, and Kim coming back for visits and recreating the dinner from hell from season 1.

WORST TREND: Lack of cast replacement. When a cast combination doesn't work, you don't maintain that combination into a second season.   I think one of the things I love about the OC is that they've never had the same cast from season to season.. there is always a cast change here and there though I wish Gina/Emily would go from OC, Robyn/Mia would leave Potomac, and Marlo/Sanja would say bye bye on Atlanta.  They've given their audition and people have said 'time to go'.

MOST CRINGEWORTHY MOMENT: Kyle and Morgan RHOBH.  Kyle has always been second fiddle... she's the Robyn Dixon of BH.  Seeing her and Morgan together is just so cringe because we know Kyle will tire of Morgan and toss her aside when a shiny new person comes into view.

BEST FEUD: Tamra vs. Jenn, RHOC.  I was intrigued with this feud because Tamra always targets the new 'hottie" (Gretchen, Alexis, Lizzie) while the other girls would be driven to tears or be unable to fight back verbally.  Jenn was refreshing because she would push back and it led to a few meltdowns from Tamra and it made Jenn one of the better newbies in a long time on the OC.

WORST FEUD: Whitney vs. Everyone, RHSLC. Why is Whitney still on the show?  Her antics helped her hubby get fired from his job, and was put out when he actually found a new job... and she whines and makes a mountain out of a molehill.

BEST ALLIANCE: Garcelle and Sutton’s friendship, RHOBH. The Odd Couple comes to mind and I love it. 

WORST ALLIANCES: The Green Eyed Bitches, RHOP. I used to love Gizelle/Robyn in the earlier seasons when they were fun messy... but now they've become so mean.

BEST QUEEN OF THEIR CITY: No one. I prefer ensemble shows and I think having someone be 'queen' makes them immune to being replaced when sometimes replacing them might give a show a new lease on life.

BEST QUEEN OF THE FORMER OG’s: LVP, RHOBH. I do miss Jackie and Joan Collin's younger sister.. who made the first few seasons so funny with her quirkiness and bemusement at Americans in Beverly Hills... and could stir a few pots.

BEST SHOW: Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.  So far, this has been a good season.. and next season, I would cut loose Dorit or Ericka in order to keep the show from getting stale/toxic.

MOST IMPROVED SHOW: Real Housewives of Orange County. Dubrow becoming an anti-heroine, Tamra back to stirring trouble, and a newbie named Jenn has helped the show regain some lost ground after the disasters of Brownie, Elizabeth (who I liked), Jenn 1, and Noella.

MOST TOXIC SHOW: Real Housewives of Potomac.   h  I see people remark how this show has maintained 4 of their OGs (Gizelle, Robyn, Karen, and Ashley) and make it seem like a good thing.  It isn't a good thing because you need to change up a cast and Robyn/Ashley have worn out their welcome.. and Mia should have been fired for having Patricia Thomas (Peter Thomas) appear on Potomac and get involved in girl drama last season.

MOST DISAPPOINTING SHOW: Real Housewives of Atlanta.  Last season the cast combination did not work and fans were saying this.. but the producers decided to keep the same cast for a 2nd season and are surprised that the show is still not working.   Definition of insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different outcome the 2nd time.

Are the scab written episodes finally airing?

I ask because I decided to randomly watch today's episode and I was surprised at how decent it was.

We had a bit of camp with Leo, a bit of an 80s Days soap story with Patch/John/Constatine, and we had a psychological look into Nicole's psych with Marlena as therapist.

It was a balanced episode

8 hours ago, dc11786 said:

The conversation regarding Jean Holloway's run led me down a rabbit hole. I pulled together some summaries from Lynda Hirsch and Jon-Michael Reed's columns as well as adding some clarifying relationship details to try and make sense of the final years of LOL. I will break the summaries down into three parts:

(a) January-May, 1978: we are in the thick of Gabrielle Upton's two year run. This material is not very strong. I am not sure I'd say it was as bad as Jean Holloway's run, but it is a very forgettable run of episodes highlighted by a lot of bad tropes such as a dying husband trying to pair his wife with his friend, a frontburner couple's main source of conflict coming from an offscreen former romantic interest, and a series of forgettable characters introduced by Upton in the previous year. 

(b) June-September, 1978: this is Upton's last stand and seems to be an improvement on a lot of her previous run. Maybe the goodwill on my part stems from it being sandwiched between two forgettable periods, but Upton shows some real promise here, but it may have just been a case of too little, too late.

(c) October-December, 1978: This is the transition period. In either September or October, Cathy Abbi is installed as producer with Jean Holloway joining in either late October or early November. November sees the departure of a slew of characters (probably close to ten) with several new charactes introduced in December as Jean Holloway´s story starts to materialize. 

For the sake of phone users, I´ll put it as a spoiler hoping that makes it easier to manage. If it isn´t helpful, I can always reformat.

  Hide contents

January 1978

 

January 2-6, 1978: Mia Marriott felt encouraged by her lover Ben Harper’s attention thinking he had moved on from his ex-wife, Betsy Crawford. This hope was shattered when  Betsy calls Ben from London resulting in Mia realizing Ben is still in love with Betsy. Lawyer Dory Patton hopes to use hypnosis on her client,  Arlene Lovette, to learn what happened the night Ian Russell fell down the elevator shaft and died. Dory hopes this will exonerate Arlene, who is on trial for Ian's murder.  In the meantime, Arlene was moved to a high-security prison. Bruce Sterling continues to conceal blood ailment from his wife Vanessa Sterling. Worried about his condition, Bruce couldn’t make love to Van. Meanwhile, Vanessa hoped her friend and neighbor Dr. Andrew Marriott and Meg Hart, Van's sister, would become a twosome after Meg corralled Andrew into a date.. Rick Latimer tells his wife Cal Latimer he wants to have a baby by her. Cal isn't as excited as her husband about the prospect.  

 

January 9-13, 1978: Cal Latimer tells her husband Rick Latimer she doesn’t want to have a baby with him right now. This resulted in an argument between the two. Michael Blake admitted to Cal that it’s the memory of his mother, Marla, who fooled around behind his father’s back, that causes his hostility towards loose-living women. Meg Hart admits she is romantically interested in Dr. Andrew Marriott, who she has been pursuing. Ben Harper is upset when he learns his publisher, Jay Edmonton, is a friend of Mia’s, the woman he has been sharing his bed with. Ben tries to destroy manuscript, which details his marriage to his ex-wife Betsy. When Mia saves it from the fire, she and Ben kiss passionately. Ben's mother, Meg, is furious to discover Mia is acting as Ben's agent and plans to bring an end to the business relationship between her son and Mia. Dory Patton suggested that hypnosis might be used on her client Arlene Lovett to get details of Ian’s murder night.

 

January 16-20, 1978: Rick Latimer tells his mother-in-law, Meg Hart, that  he is unhappy about his wife Cal Aleata Latimer’s decision not to have a baby. After Meg finishes speaking with Rick, Meg speaks wiht her daughter Cal about the matter and encouraged Cal to pursue a career. In prison, Arlene Lovette considers giving the baby she’s carrying to adoption agency. Arlene's lawyer, Dory Patton, learned about Arlene’s pregnancy and convinced her to undergo hypnosis. Following court proceedins, Charles Lamont is given legal custody of Charles, Jr, the son of his late wife Felicia Lamont and his firend Eduardo Aleata. Also, Charles insisted that Johnny Prentiss, his grandson, live with him rather than the Sterlings. Mia Marriott believed Ben Harper loved her after he tended her burned finger. Later, Ben learns Betsy went to Switzerland with Eliot Lang, Betsy's new beau. This leads to Ben and his girlfriend Mia Marriott making love. 

 

January 23-27, 1978: The district attorney agrees with Dr. Tom Crawford's suspicions that the late Ian Russell was reaching for ulcer medication when he stumbled and fell down elevator shaft the night he died. Under hypnosis, Arlene Lovette, accused of murdering Ian, remembered that Ian suffered an attack and had fallen down the elevator shaft, just as Tom had suspected. Exonerated and released from prison, Arlene Lovette tells her love interest Tom she is pregnant; Tom knows he is not the father. Charles Lamont gives baby Charlie back to Eddie Aleata, the boy's biological father. Rick and Cal Latimer agree to work out their differences leading Cal to say she will give Rick a child. Vanessa Sterling finds a book on sexual dysfunction in her husband Bruce Sterling’s attache case. Mia Marriott lit her lover Ben Harper’s fires,  but she admitted to Andrew that Ben treats her hot and cold. 

 

January 30 - February 3, 1978: Arlene Lovette feels her engagement to Dr. Tom Crawford is in jeopardy after she admitted Ian Russell fathered her unborn child. Tom lost his marriage urge when he learned about Arlene’s pregnancy. Dr. Andrew Marriott warns Ben Harper that Mia Marriott, Ben's lover and Andrew's ex-wife, is fragile emotionally having previously suffered from a bout of depression. Andrew suspects his friend Bruce Sterling is hiding a medical condition. Bruce tells Andrew he is suffering from a terminal form of anemia.  Elsewhere, Eddie Aleata grew attracted to attorney Dory Patton. Thanks to Charles Lamont, Eddie was able to adopt his own son, Charlie Lamont, Jr., while Mary Jane Owens, Charlie's nanny, got a job at the hospital’s children’s ward.Mary Jane admits to Lynn Henderson she is in Rosehill to find her former fiancé. 

 

February 1978

 

February 6-10, 1978: Dr. Tom Crawford vetoes his fiancee Arlene Lovette’s plan to put her baby up for adoption. Tom insists he still wants to marry her. Vanessa Sterling fears her husband Bruce Sterling is growing tired of their marriage.Dr.  Andrew Marriott warns his friend Bruce he must tell Van of his terminal illness or he (Andrew) will. Meg Hart learned that Bruce and Van are having sexual problems and taunted her sister Van. Rick and Cal Latimer plan second honeymoon in Paris. Mary Jane Owens places classified ad informing Michael Blake, her former love, she is in Rosehill. Eddie Aleata takes baby Charlie Lamont home. Dory Patton was reluctant to become further involved with Eddie. Ben Harper teased his lover Mia Marriott about her jealousy. Mia admits to her estranged husband Andrew she loves Ben. 

'

February 13-17, 1978: Under pressure from his friend Dr. Andrew Marriott, Bruce Sterling tells his wife Vanessa Sterling he is suffering from a terminal illness. As Arlene Lovett and Tom Crawford prepared for the Friday wedding, Ray Slater noted that Tom’s running scared. On the day she is to marry Tom, Arlene asks Ray to take her out of town. Rick and Cal Latimer enjoy their second honeymoon in Paris, while Cal's mother Meg Hart moped. Mary Jane Owens posted a newspaper notice that she’s in town and looking for Michael Blake. 

 

February 20-24, 1978: Mia Marriott decides to end affair with Ben Harper. She tells him to find another publisher for his finished novel. Having run away from Tom Crawford, Arlene Lovett goes off with Ray Slater. Confessing her love for her, Ray asks to be Arlene's husband, if in name only. Ray tells Arlene he can accept Ian's child. Arlene and Ray take out marriage license. Eddie Aleata has christening for his and the late Felicia Lamont’s baby, Charlie Aleata. Bruce Sterling wants his friend Dr. Andrew Marriott to prepare Bruce's wife Van Sterling for loneliness when he (Bruce) is gone. Vanessa tried to act brave in the face of impending widowhood. Meg Hart taunted Michael Blake about her daughter Cal Aleata Latimer, the woman Michael loves, and then Meg pointed out Mary Jane Owens is mad for him. Mia Marriott plotted to get Ben Harper to pay more attention by returning his manuscript.

 

February 27 - March 3, 1978: Arlene Lovett marries Ray Slater. At Ray's request, Arlene agrees to let everyone think her unborn baby is his, not Ian Russell’s. Carrie Johnson was stunned to learn that her daughter Arlene and Ray were married in name only. Arlene beseeched Carrie to help convince Tom that her baby is Ray’s, not Ian’s. At the christening, Eddie names the baby Charles and asks Charles Lamont to be the godfather. Meeting Michael Blake, Mary Jane Owens (who he knows and loved as Janie) tells him she has something important to reveal. Ben Harper is jubilant over finishing his novel and wishes he could take a copy to England and give it to his ex-wife Betsy Crawford Harper. Bruce Sterling considered matching his pal Dr. Andrew Marriott with his wife Vanessa Sterling so she won’t be alone when Bruce dies. 

 

March 1978

 

March 6-10, 1978: Mary Jane Owens reveals to Michael Blake she left him only because cancer forced her to have a  partial hysterectomy leaving her unable to have children. Afterwards, Mary Jane tells Michael she still loves him and hopes to resume their relationship. After reliving the past eight years apart, Mike and Mary become engaged. Husband and wife Ray and Arlene Slater take an apartment with separate bedrooms. Bambi Brester was shocked that Ray married Arlene.Mia Marriott and Ben Harper, her lover, plan a New York trip to see book publisher Jay Edmonston, to discuss revisions for Ben's upcoming novel. Bruce Sterling feels his friend Dr. Andrew Marriott would be the perfect man for his wife Van Sterling after he (Bruce) is dead. Charles Lamont huffed at Bruce’s matchmaking for Andrew and Van. Eddie Aleata wants to get to know Dorrie Patton better.  Cal and Rick Latimer returned to Rosehill; Cal still is not pregnant. Dr. Tom Crawford took a powder. 

 

March 13-17, 1978: Charles Lamont realizes Michael Blake is not as happy about marrying Mary Jane Owens as he should be.  Cal Aleata Latimer learned that Michael and Mary didn’t break their engagement. Dr. Tom Crawford returned to discover that Arlene and Ray Slater are living together. Dr. Joe Cusack concerned over his colleague Tom’s state of mind since Arlene called off their wedding. Glad he married to Arlene, Ray Slater still wishes she were more excited about the expected baby. Ray told Bambi Brewster that Arlene’s baby is his. Arlene couldn’t get her ex Tom out of her system. After Bruce Sterling takes off,  Dr. Andrew Marriott and Van Sterling find him at bar, in drunken rage. Van insisted she doesn’t want any other man but Bruce.

 

March 20-24, 1978: Dr. Andrew Marriott brought Bruce Sterling home to his wife Van Sterling after Bruce went on a drinking spree Later, .Bruce is rushed to hospital when red streaks are found on his arm. Andrew and Dr. Joe Cusack are worried that Bruce’s disease is growing worse because bruises indicated advanced hemorrhaging. Andrew was warned by Meg Hart, who has developed romantic feelings towards him, about staying clear of Meg's sister, Vanessa Sterling. Meg also intimated to her daughter Cal Aleata Latimer that she (Cal) cares more for Michael than she realizes. Meanwhile, Arlene Slater warns her mother Carrie Johnson she will never forgive her unborn child for making her give up Dr. Tom Crawford or forget that it is Ian Russell’s offspring. Arlene tells Tom she is expecting Ray’s baby. Ben Harper signed a contract for his book, but the business trip with Mia Marriott didn’t go as well as she’s hoped since he still loves Betsy, his ex-wife. Receiving advance on his book, Ben checks airfares to London to see Betsy and their daughter, Suzanne. When Ben doesn’t take her declaration of love seriously, Mia  hides her anger by saying she will be a friend anyway. 

 

March 27-31, 1978: Bruce Sterling becomes critical with septicemia. Coming out of shock, Bruce asks Dr. Andrew Marriott to take care of Van Sterling, Bruce's wife, and eventually marry her. Mary Jane Owens and Mike Blake set a June wedding date. Mary noticed Michael’s uneasiness around Cal Latimer.  Arlene Slater arranges for her husband Ray Slater to get a job at Beaver Ridge, an establishment Arlene owns shares in due to the death of her former lover Ian Russell. Ray nixed Dr. Tom’ Crawfords suggestion of an annulment from Arlene.  While Ray is trying to help a drunken Tom get his balance, Tom slugs him unconscious. Mia Marriott proposed that Ben Harper find his ex-wife Betsy after he apologized for hurting Mia. 

 

April 1978

 

April 3-7, 1978: Mary Jane Owens tells Bruce Sterling that she had cancer and was given short time to live five years ago. Bruce recovered temporarily and decided to take a positive outlook. Meg Hart taunted her daughter Cal Latimer by arranging an engagement party for Mary Jane and Michael Blake, who has expressed feelings for Cal. Mike incensed when Mary Jane agrees to let Meg throw the engagement party for her and Mike. Mary Jane picked up the fact that Michael’s uneasy around Cal after he vehemently nixed living near the Latimers after the nuptials. Betsy Crawford wrote to inform friends in Rosehill that she married a man in Europe, Eliot Lang. Ben Harper flies to England, unaware that Betsy has remarried. Ray Slater informs his wife Arlene that her former fiance Dr. Tom Crawford slugged him because he wants Ray to get annulment. Arlene reassures Ray she intends to stay with him. Tom was temporarily suspended after an arrest for being drunk and disorderly that preceded a fistfight with Ray. 

 

April 10-14, 1978: Ben Harper nixed his plans to see his ex-wife Betsy in London when he decided he loves Mia Marriott. He embarks on a return to Rosehill. On way to airport, Mia’s car goes over cliff. In coma for days, when Mia does come to, she doesn’t wish to see anyone. Dr. Andrew Marriott, Mia's estranged husband, fretted it might have been a suicide attempt and blamed Ben for Mia’s critical condition. Arlene Slater tells Ben she has no plans to care for baby that she is currently carrying.  Dory Patton realized Tom has been hitting the bottle and offered her help. Eddie Aleata warns Dory, his girlfriend, to stay away from Dr. Tom Crawford and his drinking problems..  

 

April 17-21, 1978: Mia Marriott refuses to see Ben Harper, her current love, or Dr. Andrew Marriot, her estranged husband.  Ben admitted his love to an unconscious Mia. She began healing, but she feared he’s only concerned for her because Betsy has remarried.  Andrew lamented to Vanessa Sterling, his friend and unrequited crush, that he feels responsible for failing Mia just as he failed his sons. Bruce Sterling informs Charles Lamont, his friend and neighbor, he intends to continue bringing Andrew and Van together. Dr. Andrew Marriott fantasizes about a life with Van Sterling. Mary Jane Owens realizes Michael Blake, her fiance, loves Cal Latimer, a married woman. Arlene Slater goes to visit Dr. Tom Crawford and finds Dory Patton at his apartment and Tom in drunken stupor.  Eddie Aleata and Arlene were jealous to learn that Dory’s helping Tom sober up. 

 

April 24-28, 1978: Arlene Slater gave birth to a baby whom her husband Ray Slater named April Joy Slater, even though Arlene didn’t want the baby in the same room. Taking Mia Marriott home from hospital, Ben Harper confesses his love and asks to move in with her. Mia’s divorce from her estranged husband Dr. Andrew Marriott is finalized.  Andrew learns about Ben moving in with Mia. Andrew avoided socializing with Bruce and Van, once Andrew realized he loves Van. Later, he daydreamed about a life with Van. During Michael Blake and Mary Jane Owens' engagement part, Michael confesses to Cal Latimer that he loves her. Rick Latimer, Cal's husband, catches Mike embracing her.  Dory Patton realized it’s more than concern she feels for Dr. Tom Crawford.

 

May 1978

 

May 1-5, 1978: Cal Latimer resisted Michael Blake’s advances, but Rick Latimer, Cal's husband, kicked them both out after finding them together, even though Cal professed innocence. Afterwards, Cal took refuge in the home of her aunt and uncle, Vanessa and Bruce Sterling, once she explained what had happened with herself, Michael, and Rick. Lynn Henderson, the Sterlings' ward, blamed Cal for Michael’s break up from Mary Jane Owens, Lynn's friend. Also, Lynn thought she might have a chance with Ben Harper. Arlene Slater warns Carrie Johnson, Arlene's mother, if she (Arlene) is ever left alone with April Joy, it will be the last time. Dory Patton’s daughter, Kirstin, reveals Bob Patton, Kirstin's father, was an alcoholic and that is why Dory is concerned for Dr. Tom Crawford, who has a drinking problem. Kirstin also didn't appreciate Eddie Aleata's presence. Meg Hart tells her mother Sarah Dale Caldwell that Dr. Andrew Marriott loves Van Sterling, Sarah's other daughter. Also, Meg taunted Andrew that he’s using her (Meg) to cover up his interest in Van.  

 

May 8-12, 1978: Bruce Sterling is regretting he threw his wife Van and his pal Dr. Andrew Marriott together. Meg Hart tells her brother-in-law Bruce she knows about his sexual problem. Also, Meg warned Bruce that Andrew had fallen in love with Van. Andrew unresponsive to Meg’s flirting. Van was pleased that Meg admitted being hooked on Andrew. Dr. Tom Crawford accused Ray Slater of marrying Arlene in order to welch off her Beaver Ridge inheritance. Tom informs Ray he plans to marry Arlene. Dory Patton lets her rinabtuc partner Eddie Aleata know her late husband Bob Patton was an alcoholic.  Mia Marriott feared that Betsy Crawford Lang’s possible return would reunite Betsy and Ben Harper, Mia's paramour.

 

May 15-19, 1978: Mary Jane Owens gives Michae Blake his engagement ring back, and considers leaving Rosehill. Michael learned Cal and Rick Latimer weren’t living together. Rick tells Mike to stay away from Rick's wife, Cal. Lynn Henderson and Cal Latimer mended fences after Lynn previously blamed Cal for Mary Jane and Michael's break up. Arlene Slater confides to Wendy Hayes she still loves Dr. Tom Crawford despite being married to Ray Slater. Eddie Aleata is interested in Dory Patton, but is also upset by her interest in Tom. Arlene laid into Dory about Dory's attempts to move in on Tom. Ben Harper's probationary period is up. Kids at gym lose lease. Realizing Bruce Sterling tried to match him with Bruce's wife Van, Dr. Andrew Marriott continues to feel uncomfortable in their presence. 

 

May 22-26, 1978: Cal Latimer and Lynn Henderson went to the lake cabin. Before departing, Cal wrote her husband Rick Latimer a  love letter but her mother Meg Hart intercepted it and readdressed it to Michael Blake, who was the cause of the tension in Cal and Rick's marriage. Mike goes to lake house where he learns letter was written for Rick, not him. Leaving house, Michael is stopped by old man, who says his grandson Ronnie is out in boat on stormy lake. Michael tries to rescue him, but his own boat founders. Also at the lake house,  Rick and Cal reunite. Charles Lamont asks Mary Jane Owens to stay in Rosehill until his birthday in August. With Dr. Tom Crawford’s drinking problem solved, Dory Patton feels he doesn’t need her any longer. Dory panicked when Tom and Dr. Andrew Marriott discovered that Kirsten Patton, Dory's daughter, may have cardiac condition. Andrew insisted on avoiding Van Sterling after learning that her husband Bruce Sterling told Van about Bruce's plan for Van and Andrew to get together after Bruce's impending death.

 

May 29 - June 2, 1978:  Rick Latimer attempts to rescue his romantic rival Mike Blake and Ronnie, a young kid, on the storm tossed lake. A report comes back that one of the three has died. Arriving at the lake, Cal Latimer discovers her husband Rick is safe, but Michael, her friend, has drowned. Cal and Rick blame her mother Meg Hart for Michael’s death because she sent him the letter that caused him to come to lake, and they decide to have nothing more to do with her. Kirsten Patton is unresponsive to her mother's beau Eddie Aleata’s friendship. Arlene Slater offers Ray Slater a chance to get out of marriage, but he says he’ll never want to leave her.  Ray rejected Bambi Brewster’s offer of a no-strings affair. Arlene warned Ray not to take their marriage to heart. 

 

It sounds as thought Upton was the one to remove Arlene from the Ben/Betsy orbit.. and instead of keeping her with Tom.. decided to put her in the Ian/Ray/Bambi orbit.

To your point before, I viewed the very last scene of Arlene walking out of the room as Ray says 'he cares' as a symbol that she was finally through with Ray.  It sounded like Marcus had a multi-part story planned for Ray/Arlene starting with the November plane crash, and the Feb 1st episode signaled the start of the next chapter/part in their story.

3 hours ago, dragonflies said:

Brad's got jokes, 2023 was the worst year I've seen on BOLD in a very long time. If he can top that yikes 

Well 4 months of the year were written by scabs... so he wants to make sure 2024 is the worst year ever all on his watch LOL

I know that people think Brooke got one over Stephanie.. but the problem with that is that she constantly was trying to get Stephanie's approval.  Sheila, on the other hand, didn't care one bit for Stephanie's approval after awhile and usually got in some good retorts and also physically harmed Stephanie.

India.. and to a lesser extent Sherry Stingfield's Blake were the only two characters that matched Alexandra in terms of presence and one liners.

I wish Halloway's stint was available...just to see how these tales looked on screen.

The Bambi Brewster tale sounds like a bad attempt at combining a Stella Dallas type of story with a C movie film noir plotline

And chaperoned dates???

@dc11786If I could guess who to write off, I think Bambi/Tony could possibly have gotten married and moved close to where his son was.

I also think Mia could have been written off once the trial was resolved..as well as Elliot perhaps.

And I would have found a way to bring Arlene back into the Ben/Betsy orbit...or even become a complication for Tom/Lianne.  Arlene had pasts with Ben and Tom...and she could be an effective thorn in Betsy's side...since both her love and brother were taking care of Arlene.

Would have been an effective use of history.  Think how Guiding Light mined the Ed/Holly connection which drove Maureen/Roger crazy....the same thing could have happened with Arlene in terms of Tom and Ben.

21 hours ago, dc11786 said:

I think it was about 1960 to until late 1964, but I am basing that on an article I read years ago from 1963 (or so) when they were discussing how Barbara was considering aborting Rick´s baby (Hank). I believe he produced up until he was working on ¨A Flame in the Wind.¨

This is how some radio soaps worked. There would be a small set of mainstays who would mostly react to the insane actions of short run leads who would come and go once their story reached their natural conclusion. These shows were effective. 

Alan is interesting. I can´t remember if he ever learned that Bruce Sterling wasn´t his biological father. If not, I imagine Marcus would have pulled the scab off that wound at some point because she was supposedly set to bring back both Alan and Barbara in 1980. Alan´s paternity revelation would have probably coincided with the reveal that Amy wasn´t Bruce´s child, which was also set to occur at some point later in the year. 

I´m blanking, who was Elizabeth? 

I think Barbara and Rick´s volatile marriage was similar to Alan and Susan´s on ¨Secret Storm.¨ She was the spoiled daddy´s girl and he was someone who didn´t always color inside the lines of morality. Where Rick seems to luck out is he was already engulfed in story when they decided to write out Barbara with his involvement with Sally Stark´s Kate Swanson. His ties to the Sterling clan as their in-law also allowed Bruce and Vanessa to cluck about Rick´s behavior without it ever really impacting them. 

I find it hard to see Jerry Lacey as this charismatic roguish type given the roles he played on ¨Dark Shadows," but I know that people liked him. Did Rick have any romances between Kate and then the triangle with Cal and Meg? 

Tudi Wiggins leaving would have been a loss for ¨Love of Life,¨ but I think the show could have survived. There was a lot of story going on (Ben/Betsy/Eliot, Hal/Arlene/Ray, Steve/Vanessa/Bruce/Amy, Bambi/Tony/Kim, Kelly/Wes/Cheryl) that Meg´s departure would have just meant some shifting. There seemed to be some attempt at building a Andrew/Lianne relationship, which I imagine could have become the next complication to Lianne/Tom. 

Creatively, ¨Love of Life¨ doesn´t feel like a corpse in 1979/1980 plot summaries the way it does to me in 1978/1979. Ann Marcus really reenergized the show in terms of story, but the damage had been done. When the show changed slots in April, 1979, the show lost about 40 affiliates which meant about a clearance drop of 15%. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if ¨Love of Life¨ had managed to be in the 90s for clearance when Marcus was writing because even when the show was ending she was getting ratings at a 4.0, which isn´t great but went you see it has a clearance of 70% its not terrible, but it really would have needed to pulling a 7.0 to be competitive with the bottom portion and it just wouldn´t have been close even with a fuller market clearance. 

Regarding Van, she had been deemphasized pretty much since Labine and Mayer were writing. I think she was central in the Jeff Hartman story, but after that, Van and Bruce are left to deal with other people´s problems. They get an alcoholic ward, Lynn Henderson, but her story never really seems to find a direction ( I think they wanted to have Lynn go after Ben Harper but that never completely happens). Gabrielle Upton has a plot where Bruce thinks he´s dying and tries to pair Van and Andrew Marriott, but that sounds even more hoary than most of Jean Holloway´s stuff. It is Ann Marcus, actually, who seems to revitalize Bruce and Van by introducing Amy Russell, who claims she is Bruce´s bastard daughter, and Ben´s ex-cell mate Steve Harbach who develops a sexual attraction for Vanessa. Truthfully, it would be a treat to see some of the Steve / Vanessa material. 

The timeslot change is about a month before Ann Marcus arrives. In Marcus' first week, she immediately dumps the notorious Bambi Brewster plot and immediately gives Bruce and Van jobs at the university. By June, Mia Marriott´s brother Wes Osbourne becomes involved with Ray Slater´s kid sister Gina Gaspero for the youth summer story. Marcus´ overhaul definitely has a youth emphasis.

The college definitely seems to be becoming more of an emphasis as does the disco that is run by Arlene and Ray. I think ditching the ski resort element of the show was unfortunate, but it didn´t seem to fit with where the show was heading. 

Given the constant turnover, the question really would be who would have been producer or writer after Abbi/Marcus and what would they have done to the show. 

The episodes/scenes that were uploaded on YT awhile back from the final week or so of the show really highlights that the show was in transition.

Perhaps because of the timeslot change, Marcus was brought on in order to infuse the show with more youthful/modern characters/stories.  You could have tell what was 1979/80 modern and what was still kind of stuck in the late 70s rut.

The Betsy/Ben/Mia/Eliot (I think that was his name) seemed very melodramatic/old fashion while the Arlene story seemed right out of the 40s.  You contrast that with Amy/Lianne/Kelly as more modern vibrant women of 1979/80... and then you have Bambi that I didn't see much of.. but obviously Marcus found her interesting enough to keep on.

The thing about the final episode that intrigued me was the Arlene story.. because that last scene with her walking out of the room while her d bag husband begs her to stay gave me hope that maybe Marcus was going to finally give Arlene some dignity/strength after the abuse she had from Ben and then her current louse of a husband.

33 minutes ago, Khan said:

Good question, @Soaplovers!  Unfortunately, even if LOL had survived past Feb. 1980, I doubt that it would have lasted that much longer.

The way I see it, LOL was trapped in a no-win situation.  Their core audience seemed to be older and more conservative than other soaps'.  Therefore, they were not as willing to embrace whatever changes were necessary in order to make the show more contemporary and competitive with the Bell or ABCD soaps, especially if those changes meant de-emphasizing Vanessa as the show's central heroine.  At the same time, because of its' reputation as being "your mother's soap opera," it seems as if younger audiences for the most part steered clear of LOL, possibly out of the belief that the show had nothing to interest them.

The timeslot change was what killed the show because it moved to a timeslot usually reserved for more youth oriented soaps (i.e Dark Shadows, Edge of Night, etc).

I think had the show stayed in the timeslot it was originally in, it probably would have lasted a few more years at least.

The funniest thing I can recall was that my mom used to watch LOL and actually viewed Loving as almost a replacement for Love of Life in terms of atmosphere.

My thinking is that had the show lasted beyond 1980 till at least 1982/83, I do think that Van/Bruce would probably have been the tentpole characters in terms of giving advice to the other characters.  And that  most of the other characters would have been more youthful with an emphasis on the college and the restaurant/club continuing.

Had LOL surived past Feb 1980, I wonder how the show would have changed since the actress playing Meg was rumored to have left once her contract was up.

In the few episodes online from the final weeks, there looked to be some promising characters like Liane, Dana Delaney's character, etc so I wonder if the soap would have become more an esemble instead of focused just on Van/Meg.

Guiding Light was able to kind of end on somewhat of a decent note vs As the world turns

RHOBH:

Try Hard Marie should have watched previous seasons to see how newbies should come into a show.  Sutton and Brandi were good examples of how to be a successful newbie because both came in as the underdog and we got to see aspects of each before they're more unlikable/human traits came into play.   Garcelle took a unique approach by using most of her debut season to showcase her day to day life with her friends, sons, and her movie roles.. same with Denise in a lesser capacity. 

RHONY UGT:

Let's sit the season 3 cast of UGT down and show them how they should have acted during their season.  More fun/bonding with some drama mixed in.

Kristen is so the greek chorus and the mouthpiece of the audience when it comes to Kelly.  I know Brandi warned her about doing UGT.. but unlike Brandi, Kristen knows to respect peoples boundaries and knows more than the F bomb.

For me, artists like Taylor and Beyonce aren't the problem...its the obsessed fans (Swifties and Beys) that are the issue.

Talk about creepy and obsessed.  

The time slot was the biggest problem, as well as stations having the power not to air a show at that timeslot.

Had affiliates not had so much power, The City could have worked at 3 or 3:00 PM.

On 12/7/2023 at 8:59 AM, Planet Soap said:

Thanks for this topic.

Speaking for Y&R specifically:
1) Show structure: YnR was very easy to follow in the 90s because there was a select group of lead characters for which other characters orbited around (Victor, Lauren, Dru, Christine...) Because characters only existed in bubbles, and everyone didn't have connections with everyone, it was easy to keep track of who is connected to who. This unlike Douglas Marland's marvelous ATWT which boasted a large cast with connections all over the map.

2) Attention to Detail: look at the Sheila baby switch plot. Bell knew he had five days a week to fill so we got to see small but important details like Lauren setting up an insurance scheme in order to get Scott, Sheila and the baby's bloods to do a DNA test. We actually saw Sheila switch the babies and go through the process of switching birth tags, foot, and fingerprints. We saw doppleganger Marge go down to the bank to practice impersonating Katherine and forging her signature before taking her place. Meanwhlie, on the modern show, they said Cameron dug a tunnel to break into into the Newman ranch--- which was not shown. Bill Bell showed us Michael building a tunnel for days to break into Christine's apartment. Classic difference.

3) Story plotting: I like his ability to stretch stories out for years and let them have big payoffs. Jack & Jill's affair, her resulting divorce from John and fallout, spanned from 1983? to 1987. Bill didn't just write for the moment, his storylines had long-term implications. Stemming from the divorce in '86, Jill remains at Jabot today. Victor taking over Jabot lasted 10 years, and his reign finally ended in that dramatic Brad and Jack take over story! 

I also like that his storylines were consistent throughout a year. I can pick 1995 out of the lineup and know that I am automatically going to see Nick, Sharon and Matt Clark, or Nathan and Keesha be a constant thread. 

1) I 100 % agree with that point.  It was realistic and very real life...and sometimes there would be random scenes where 2 characters from seperate bubbles would interact and kick off a new story (Victor seeing Nikki perform at the Bayou, Ryan sitting alone at Gina's and being invited to sit with Danny/Cricket/Nina, etc).

2) His plots were slow moving, but it wasn't like being in a hamster wheel...there was movement.

3) I remember when Victor wrote his codicil that Jabot would go back to the Abbots once he passed away.  Then we got Victor persumed dead and a court case in 1993...long before the Brad/Jack take over story in 1998.

Marland needed a co head writer that could infuse a canvas with emotion and life.  His soaps were kind of cold and listless without any spark of life.

Hence why a Marland and Pam Long collab would have worked.  She could provide ideas and infuse emotion/heart into a show while Marland would have implemented and provided structure to those ideas.

And the blue collar family would have heart and have distinctive personalities (she did well with the Reardons and Lewis families that Marland had created).

On 12/14/2023 at 3:49 PM, DaytimeFan said:

SLC

It's been a good season but I think after this episode, and what appears to be coming, that they're in need of a few cast changes.

Little Girl is trying to stir up problems wherever she can because she has nothing going on.

Monica is not someone I can get behind. She feels very dishonest. She's now posted on her socials that her mother had nothing to do with her family not seeing her in Bermuda. I feel like she went for the pity instantly to try and soften the cast up for what was to come with Heather. Monica somewhat revels in her 'honesty' about what a terrible person she is. Affair, criminal arrest, debts, lawsuits. She is not someone I would want to be around.

BH

This is a very good season with a few false notes.

Dorit's time is up. She brings nothing to the show and her attempts at conflict fall flat. Crystal was very effective at shutting her down at the Sutton event by basically yawning.

Annemarie is insufferable. Please get her off the screen. Her comments about Sutton's esophagus problem being "medically not true" is actually ridiculous. A narrowing esophagus is a common problem. Many people struggle with swallowing or have an issue called achalasia. Also, her husband must be a real prize to say she's straight 8.5s. Like vile Kyle, she laughs at her own jokes. She is such a flop and clearly brought on to prop Kyle.

Crystal is dull and I don't see any storyline for her aside from arguing with Annemarie. 

Erika continues to have a great season. She's way, way more likeable than she has been the last few years.

Sutton is a chaotic mess but I like her. She isn't being pushed around by anyone.

Garcelle is fabulous. Kyle tried to divide her and Sutton about the ring comment, but Garcelle owned it. I love her family scenes too. 

The situation with Kye's friend is obviously a tragedy. However, I struggle to muster up sympathy for her because she had none for LVP when her own brother committed suicide and openly told them she was in trouble and needed space and peace. No, back then Kyle and her coven attacked LVP relentlessly. Now Kyle has an idea of what hell it feels like. She remains transparent with respect to her sisters...they will never be close or trust her.

 

Annemarie makes me almost miss Rinna and even Diana... and that's sad.

RHONY UGT:

Watched the first episode, so far so good

On 12/14/2023 at 10:58 AM, Khan said:

And it did, and they were.

The show already had an expiration date by the time Pam/Addie joined as the headwriters.  It was nice that the show was able to go out with a great final episode that tied up the show nicely.

Based on the article, it does sound like Pam had great ideas.. just needed someone strong to implement them.. and I do think your idea of pairing Marland and Pam would have been a winner.  His shows were tightly plotted, but the day to day stuff was kind of cold and lacking warmth.. while her shows were warm/earnest and watchable.. but her plots were a little out of whack at times.

Why bother recasting Taylor with a good actress that has the essence of HT if you don't want to write for her?

If Bill Bell were alive, he would have had Taylor outside of the Brooke/Ridge orbit in her own story.