Soaplovers

Yeah, I was dreading Tad possibly coming back had the PP version of AMC continued because his character was played out and it was nice to see Dixie as a character again on her own without Tad around to overshadow her.

I had a feeling had Tad come back that Dixie would have been relegated to his arm piece instead of a character in her own right with loads of potential (dealing with Billy Clyde Tuggle's return, being supportive to JR, and a potential new love interest that she had chemistry with).

On 12/14/2023 at 6:39 PM, dc11786 said:

At one point, Walsh quit prior to her ousting. Shortly after he came on (summer 1992), Paul Anthony Stewart stated the show had no headwriter and that Granger was acting as defacto headwriter. 1992 is a mess so I wouldn't be surprised.  Addie Walsh and Haidee Granger clashed; it sounds like Granger clashed with a lot of people.

Anyway, I suspect Walsh was upset because Granger changed her story plans for Cooper Alden, which involved him being sexually assaulted by his nanny. In Granger's sanitized version, it was described as a seduction by a twelve or thirteen year old Cooper of Selina Walker, the nanny. When Walsh returns in 1994, she has a rather big confrontation between Stephanie and Cooper over Stephanie's precarious health (her eating disorder was ramping up again). As Cooper discussed his own feelings, Steffi directly asks Cooper if he was molested, and Cooper confirms it.

It would seem most likely that Walsh's bible was used for the 2nd half of 1992 whether or not she was present or not. 

I'm glad that Walsh was able to fix what Granger did with the Cooper story as much as she could in 1994.

Her take on Pamela was interesting and it's a shame that the infighting marred the character of Pamela and whatever story was planned for her character.

I imagine that the turn of Pamela from an anxious recluse into an Alexis esque character was supposed to have gone slowly.  In her scenes as the character, she had a certain warmth/sweetness that could make people under estimate the real lethal evil lurking within the character.

Marj couldn't have played that element.  While she can play anxious, she couldn't play the warm elements that Shirley was able to play.  

I remember trying to get my mom to sample the soap.  It was a recap episode featuring Tabitha and Timmy...and my mom sat there for the entire episode baffled.

She finally said 'I don't think Im who the show is aimed at.  Have fun watching it.'

I liked the first few years better than the later years because there was a soap structure Reilly was following. 

Bergman in his early days as Jack had the sarcastic edge of TL, but once the impulse marriage of Jack/Nikki became an actual marriage...Jack became Cliff Nelson's long lost twin.

At least Brenda's Ashley looked like Eileen's Ashley and even had some of her essence...just in a softer mode.  Her breakdown scenes in late 1995 were awesome...and were better acted than Eileen's.  

When Brenda Dickson played Jill...she was more dead pan and cold.  Once Jess took over, Jill always was raging and never cool under pressure.  I imagine Jill vs Nina would have gone differently had Brenda stayed in the role (They had scenes together and it was an interesting vibe).

I think an instrumental opening would have worked much better.

It seemed too focused on the gimmick and hardly anytime focused on developing characters the audience would care about.  

Anyway that watched the Dawn series watched to see Donna Mills in action.  

And the #s looked pretty good so maybe a follow up movie taking place in the summer?

The Thorn Birds is a memorable mini-series and book.

We have generational trauma, forbidden love, haves vs have nots, and an examination of religion and the complexity of it.  I do wonder how different Meggie would have come across if Jane Seymour (under consideration for the role) had played the part (same as the part in Hollywood Wives that was played by Stefanie Powers).

I think I recall the only reason Abby finally said something was because her nephew Michael was going to be blamed for drugs that were Olivia's and she finally decided to fess up.  And if I recall, she spinned it as though she didn't say anything until she had definite proof.

I even remember a scene where Val told Abby she knew she was looking for the twins and wasn't super angry with her.

52 minutes ago, Khan said:

I agree.  You'd think Lifetime, with their TV movies that verge on being exploitational, would know how to produce miniseries that were in the spirit of those made during the '70's and '80's, but it's almost like they want to play it safe.

I confess, as hard as I am on soaps whenever they're being trashy, I much prefer the "trashy" miniseries over the "classy" ones.  After all, the "trashy" ones aren't trying to win awards; they just want to tell a good story.

Lifetime has gotten better with their V.C Andrew's adaptations...now making them limited series

1980s:

Windmills of the Gods, Masters of the Game, and Rage of Angels were pretty good Sidney Sheldon mini-series in the 80s.  They were a nice mix of trashy and classy.

For classy, I would say 'I know my first name is Steven' and 'Baby M' were pretty good.. and both so tragic.  

1990s:

Stephen King had some great mini series: It, The Stand, and the Tommy Knockers.  A good good mix of trashy and classy.

'A woman named Jackie' and 'The Odyssey' were pretty good and classy.

@KhanI didn't watch ATWT much.. but my late mom did.  She described Melanie's Emily as tortured and sensual.

When I watch old Youtubes of her Emily... I see someone that is hard/tough on the outside (on the account of her childhood), yet very soft on the inside.  That dichotomy was what made her Emily so compelling to watch.  She reminded me of a 40s actress in terms of how she portrayed Emily.

Kelley's Emily was colder, tortured, yet very neurotic.   She lacked the sensuality and sadness that Melanie's Emily had... but I did think her Emily was a good one.... if you looked at her Emily as an entirely different character.

I would add Deidre Hall because she was very popular in the 80s on Days.. plus had a bit of success as a working prime time actress in the late 80s/early 90s.

I knew Loni would be good because she has the comedy/sitcom background and knows how to balance the line between campy and non-campy comedy.  

Susan Sullivan would be good if they do a follow up because she was known in the 80s for being the long suffering heroine, but also went onto success in sitcoms in the 90s and thereafter with a more broad style of acting.  She could play a character in the follow up where she was known for playing the warm and moral center on the soap, like Maggie on FC, but behind the scenes be more like her character from Dharma and Greg.

I also second Ana Alicia being in one of these types of movies. Her dismissal from FC helped cause a huge ratings drop and it would be nice for new generations to be re-introduced to her.

10 hours ago, Cat said:

 

"Just be open an' honest!" But the rare few times the tables are turned on her, Kyle doesn't like it and we get eating disorders and "You are a liar, sick, an alcoholic."

Sutton and Garcelle mentioning Kyle's marriage did not happen in a vacuum. There is no way Kyle would bring her 'friend' on the show unless a careful, legal separation had already taken place. Mauricio can barely fake it anymore he's so checked out, and Kyle is completely over Mo in a big way. S&G bought it up because the separation was already out there.

My concern is... who gets that gorgeous Encino house?

---------

By the way.... Kathy Hilton had a Christmas event and invited everyone and their cat:

Nice to see Alexis and Heather are cordial.  I truly think Dubrow started to hate Alexis so much because she went after her IMDb 1st (Angelina Jolie is a real actress is what Alexis said lol).

My view of Crystal went down a lot if her close friends are Larsa, Louie, and Teresa.

Angie K and Mary hanging out..hmmm.

Kim Richards will always be a bit quirky,eccentric, and be funny at times.  Something Kyle will never be.

RHOBH:

Kyle is a bottomless pit of need. Mo checked out and I'm sure Morgan will as well eventually 

Soaps have fallen so much that there isn't anyone willing to do the job as head-writer that could be decent.

The thing people forget is that soap opera writing is vastly different than writing a play.

Harding Lemay had the benefit of learning the ins and outs of soap opera writing from Irna Phillips so he knew what he could change and what needed to be maintained in order to successfully write AW.

It sounds as though Corrinne had some great ideas, she just needed to be mentored by an established soap opera that could have helped her adapt her ideas to the soap opera format.  Perhaps she could have co-headwritten with L Virginia Browne (who had head-wrote the show for most of 1981 and helped to stabilize the show in some respects that year).

Also, on OLTL.. Michael Malone struggled his first months as headwriter because he didn't understand the machanics of writing a soap until he was paired with Josh Griffiths.

A local coffee shop trying to resist being taken over by a larger coffee chain (i.e. Starbucks, Peets, etx).

It would be a natural gathering place for the youth and older characters 

I wish youtube had the promo that aired days before Generations premiered.. because the promo had fast paced music, snippets of the cast arguing, acting mysterious and seductive.  It made the show look enticing, but when it premiered.. I remember my 19 year old aunt watching it when I was very little and she said it was too boring.  A half hour soap should not be boring.

I actually think Ryan's Hope had great openings since it was about the Ryan family living in NYC.  You saw scenes of the Ryan's and friends in various sites throughout NYC with a catchy theme song.   

One issue I could have seen in RH in late 90s and 2000s would have been gentrification and more diversity.

The neighborhood the show took place in had higher crime that peaked in the 90s and started to decline in the late 90s/early 00s...and led to building and park improvements..which led to gentrification in the 00s.

And the show would had to have become more diverse in the 90s and 2000s to reflect trends in the real life locale.

@Khan  @DeliaIrisFan

Upon giving it some thought, Delia would probably  have been the only character that I think Marland could truly have written well since she was a more neurotic version of Nola Reardon.

The only other character that I think he might have had a good grasp on was Faith.. that character was such a Marland character and with his obsession with writing about therapy.. Faith was the perfect character.

I think Marland would have a very bad fit for the show.  He wouldn't have been able to capture the essence of the Ryan's nor what made the show so unique.

While Marland could write a good umbrella story, his day to day episodes were quite dry and boring with too much exposition.  I used to watch episodes of his ATWT and GL and remark how unrealistic the characters were when interacting with one another.

You needed a writer that could handle the half hour format, understood the dynamics of the Ryans/Coleridges, and captured the feel of the close knit New York City neighborhood.  I can't think of any writer that could have been able to write about the Irish Catholic Ryans and the upper crust Coleridges well... that wasn't Claire Labine.

I think the problem with Marland writing a half hour soap was that he probably couldn't feature all the characters/stories that he wanted because of the half hour format.

Half hour soaps have their unique challenges where you have to create a rich world with a smaller number of characters and plots than you could on an hour long show.  There was an interview someone posted awhile back on one of the forums where Marland, Pam Long, and another writer were interviewed on TV.. and Pam Long said she found writing the half hour format harder than the hour format.

19 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

We also need to remember that Marley was a traditional soap opera ingenue, at a time when the traditional ingenue had, for the most part, fallen out of fashion -- at least in the eyes of soap opera writers. By 1985-ish, the tables had turned between ingenues and bad-girls.  Meaning that by 1985, in most cases, the bad-girl won and the ingenue was either written off or went crazy.  In Marley's case, she was written off, and then years later went crazy.   

By the mid-1980s, even the queen of writing and/or creating successful ingenues, Agnes Nixon, could not get a new ingenue to succeed on AMC.  Nixon had been highly successful writing long romances for Missy Matthews and Alice Matthews on Another World, and on AMC had created popular ingenues, Tara Martin, Nina Courtlandt, and Jenny Gardner.  But Jenny was Nixon's final successful ingenue. Even though she tried several times during and after the mid-80s to introduce such characters, the new ingenues each lost the boy to her competition (bad-girl) and were written off.   

The era of the "good-girl" was over for good.  Writers found the bad-girls more interesting and more exciting, I suppose.  A couple of years ago I was involved in an online discussion trying to determine the last two or three successful long-term ingenues on daytime.  And the only characters anyone could think of were Lily Walsh and Lily Winters.  I tend to agree.   

Jenna on AW was a fairly successful ingenue... but she had a backbone and wasn't written to be a Mary Sue and she had a fairly popular coupling with Dean in the early 90s 

6 hours ago, P.J. said:

Poor Iva, constantly being stuck making those around her comfortable with their lack of concern for her feelings. I'd forgotten she was Ellie's maid of honor. UGH. Is it just ATWT that had this obsession with exes proving there are no hurt feelings with weird proofs of "acceptance"? Attending weddings/naming of godparents/etc? It's twisted that Iva was forced to be in both her sister's weddings. And I keep thinking of Carly having to sit through Jack's wedding to Janet with this plastic smile on her face while Jack seemed to be more focused on her than his bride.

The situation with Iva is sadly a realistic thing in families.. especially back in the 80s/90s where sometimes the survivor (Iva) had to deal with being in the same room with their abuser and/or the person that hurt them.

From what I recall, one of the factors that led to Kirk/Iva breaking up was when Iva's cousin (Lenore.. I think was her name) told her that Kirk was her ex husband that left her and the kids.  So Iva rightfully told off Kirk and tried to put distance between her and Kirk.. which is a healthy response.

However, Ellie decided to go for Kirk herself at the expense of her sister Iva's feelings.. and Iva, still in people pleasing mode, tried to be the bigger person.

When viewing Iva's character arc from late 1985 into the the 1990s, I viewed Iva as having intense guilt for running away and leaving the family without a word to anyone.  Those first episodes when Emma/Iva came face to face was very cold and intense.. and I sometimes wonder if Iva being 'the bigger person' was a way for her to make up for deserting the family.

I don't know if Marland intentionally was showing that the survivor of abuse (Iva) was still being abused... but instead of it being physical/sexual.. it was more emotional abuse by the family.   

7 hours ago, Xanthe said:

I don't remember Marley's  haemosynthosis (according to the AWHP that was what it was called; as far as I can tell it is not a real disease) ever coming up again after the bone marrow transplant. When Vicky got pregnant with Steven I seem to recall that she didn't believe Jake could be his father because the theory was it was Jake who was sterile. Then late in her pregnancy she learned that Jake wasn't sterile after all, panicked, and begged her OBGYN for a prenatal paternity test that the OBGYN refused to do because it was too dangerous. 

I don't remember the order that everything shook out in. Vicky realized before Steven was born that Jake might be the father. I believe Marley offered to adopt Steven also before the baby was born. Jake didn't suspect he was Steven's father until after Steven was born and he discovered they shared the same blood type. IMO, Marley's attachment to Steven works regardless of who the father is and keeping Jamie as Steven's father is more effective because it continues to involve the Frames and Corys whereas making Jake the father seems to close the loop so that only Loves are involved. (Although I suppose that could have been mitigated if Vicky and Jamie had stayed together. And after Jamie left did Steven interact with the Corys much anyway?) 

The problem was that Marley always played second fiddle to Vicky.. because a character like Marley needed a writer that could make a character like Marley more naunced.  Vicky was easy to write so writers like Swajeski, Sloane, etc tended to write for her and use Marley as a talk to for Vicky (except for the 1991/2 period where Marley had a story arc that didn't involve Vicky so much).