DRW50

Oh that's right. I forgot she even had story after the breakup. I remember finding Salem somewhat annoying on AW, but have no memory of her GH work. Reassigned to Alaska? Guza must have wanted to pay homage to the alternate To Live and Die in LA ending.

That happened when Rauch just started and when they had an interim team (Victor Miller, Michael Conforti, Nancy Williams Watt).

Finola is such a charismatic presence and was very different to other women on the canvas at the time, which must have helped. GH had a lot of strong women until JFP's arrival, but that mid '80s period is something of a lull - it seems like you either have ingenues or women who are being blackmailed and abused. Anna was such a strong female character that I'm not surprised they have never known what to do with her in recent years. I just wish they would move on from the Valentin codependency, no matter what following they have online. @carolineg Thanks for the refresher about Sonny's women at the time. I suppose Claire was just a backup if Vanessa didn't return. I feel bad for the actress, but at least she wasn't fired in the makeup chair like Matt Borleighni.

I thought they worked well together too, when given the chance. Sonny had some dire pairings in those years, like that lady lawyer - does that count as a pairing? Does Claudia count as a pairing? And the one that did have some support (Sonny/Kate) seemed to be disliked by the show. Which led to Sonny/Olivia - does that count as a pairing (what was onscreen)? I think what helps Robert/Anna is they had some good scenes over a period of decades, even if they weren't involved at the time. Robert/Holly mostly have the first run (which I need to see more of) and a lot of mess afterward. I know some appreciated the scenes they had together right before Robert "died," even if those now apparently were meant to have led to them hooking up and having a baby offcamera while Holly had her Holly robot from her closet take over for her in Port Charles for the next year.

@TheyStartedOnSoaps Thank you for letting us know. I'm sorry to hear about his passing, and my thoughts go to Sydney and their loved ones.

Jax/Carly is one of those pairings that got such hostility from the show I was never sure how much fan support ever broke through or how sustained it was. The soap press was happy to play along. I still remember their chiding fans who were upset when Carly laughed at her husband being raped. Robert/Anna is probably one of the more controversial supercouple pairings I can remember - as many fans who love them seem to dislike them together.

@SoapDope That's a wonderful find! I sometimes go through that channel but had never seen any soap content, beyond a brief Emmerdale Farm commercial. It's so unnerving seeing Robin as Hope for some reason. I'm very used to seeing her as villains or troubled women. I can't say I'm impressed by any of it either. I suppose I could credit her for trying to make San Cristobel more dynamic via civil war and higher stakes (Reva being blinded and Cassie losing her baby), and roping in Beth as Edmund's partner, but I just found most of the story uninvolving and repulsive (mainly Cassie losing her baby, especially as she was fairly far into her pregnancy). The show also would not commit to Beth actually being a bad person, so part of it was about "saving" her from Edmund, which I did not care about. DAM in general was much more appealing to me than what they often tried to do with Edmund, which is probably one of the reasons he stayed around off and on for a decade. I think San Cristobel stayed on as long as it did in part because it was entirely Rauch's creation and as shown on OLTL he enjoyed going to far-off made-up lands (with occasional location shoots), and in part because P&G/CBS/GL were likely tapping into a princess fantasy and a magical kingdom fantasy. I actually liked the Richard/Cassie pairing, and even I had had enough of San Cristobel by this point. (and of course the racial dynamics of the place, where the only time you saw black characters was as extras yet this colonialism and classism was never mentioned aside from moments like Cassie selling her crown to help the people, make me cringe). Claire Labine was a wonderful writer, but I don't connect with most of her OLTL or GL runs. I found both extremely alienating, to be honest. Admittedly neither show was in good health before she arrived, so she had no Wendy Riche to be an effective partner. I agree that there was probably no one, although I liked some of what Jill Lorie Hurst did in GL's last year. I would also say Lorraine Broderick, possibly - I didn't love her ATWT work but she had history with GL and did manage some strong moments at her soaps even with clear network and producer interference. I remember that - they should have just left Beth... I assume it was dropping ratings that finally ended San Cristobel. Either that or Bradley Cole announcing his exit (or had he only left because they ended SC?).

@soapfan770 Thank you. Here's the AV Club interview. https://www.avclub.com/conchata-ferrell-on-two-and-a-half-men-and-her-crusty-1798274363

I sometimes wonder if part of the R/K popularity was Duke/Anna fans who didn't want R/A to get back together but also didn't like Holly, although from the bits I've seen of Katherine she does seem genuinely nice, which can go a long way (a number of characters who are meant to be nice often don't seem that way due to actor portrayal or writing or both - maybe most blatant with GH and Anne, who was vocally hated by a number of fans even years after her exit). (speaking of Anne, I did not realize until now that she and Noah reconciled offscreen in 2014, when whatever happened to make Rick Springfield stop appearing on the show) It must be tough for Holly or Robert/Holly fans - multiple regimes just failing the character. I suppose given Emma's health and the lack of respect for Holly in the writing it's just a miracle to get her back onscreen at all.

This cracks me up.

Cathy's story did feel somewhat unfinished - maybe they were seeing if Lisa wanted to return. I think one of the reasons the Cathy/Ben story feels so cheap is because it's the type of story you often hear of other Knots actors vetoing those empty cheating plots. Clearly neither of them had the power (if they objected to the story). It also reminds me of how hollow Cathy was as a character. Everything with Jean Hackney did feel suited to Falcon Crest, although it provided one of my favorite Knots scenes (Ben putting Lilimae in a headlock).

That makes sense. So Mulcahey was probably screwed by JPS' very generous schedule with the show.

That story was so confused to me because I felt like she came across as foolish as Sonny in many ways. I wonder what Mulcahey's original plans would have been. I assume he was already iced out by the time we got to the dumbest parts (her outing Blaze).

I agree. They work well together and I know his history with Alexis and Kristina is more complicated than his return has suggested. It's hard to see her ever going there again though (then again she was with Julian for 500 years...).

I wonder how much is also just nothing being left for Ava as a character. I can say under Mulcahey Nina had more drive (even if her fans didn't seem to agree) but Ava then and now just seems like she's thrown wherever the plot dictates, and Maura has to salvage the scripts. If they are going to have her end up losing Ric to Alexis then that will be even more of a stretch than the money to me, since I don't think Alexis would ever want Ric again.

As I skim through some of this, I'm reminded of why I barely watch this period - between Badderly (did Rauch base that name on Manderley?) and Dan intensing and Laura Jean...acting, the highlight is probably Debra, Gabrielle and Julia trying on party dresses. (as is often the case, the one that is meant to look the best is probably the worst...Gabrielle looks like she's about to try to crash a local prom). Did Gabrielle ever mention them when she came back? Hell, I don't know if Gabrielle and Julia even mentioned Debra after she left. I also like the meditation music in some of the Dan/Laura Jean scenes. I needed it. I appreciate the show trying to save some money on disguises, but it is still strange to think they would just put on glasses or a hairband. Only one even seemed to try an accent (emphasis on try). Sometimes I think I am not being fair and should try to watch Badderly in full, but then I try. Was it Badderly that got Rauch fired or did he still have more chances, and he just couldn't deliver? Do you think the end of his run does improve from this point? Did Megan say she gave an Eterna pin for luck? What kind of luck did Eterna ever give anyone? No wonder her last years were so tragic...

I clipped this as it was an Episodes promo I hadn't seen before. Walt looks very good here.

@Alan Geez! I could not get through more than a few minutes as I was wincing so much I was afraid I would literally curl up into a ball. IIRC Bridget had set all this up with Roger so I can justify the bad acting from Melissa Hayden here, but everything is terrible. That Battle Chess setup is probably the least of the problems. I remember now why I had stopped watching around this point. The show truly had the mark of death. If not for B&B not expanding to an hour, it would have not lasted past early '97.

It may not be fair, but I see those names and I get a lot of soap PTSD, even if they are just driving cars. As said above, I know it's probably best left for another thread.

Another GH promo I hadn't seen around: Someone also put this up, for any of you Katherine (not that Katherine) fans:

I always forget "Shayla" happened in this timeframe. Probably more interesting to analyze than watch (the show getting caught by the consequences of their supercouple focus), although I know some fans enjoyed seeing Kayla fight for her self-respect against the family. That would sum it up for me as well. Thanks for watching. The One Stormy Night promo from around this time has the same flair.

I saw this in a larger video so made a clip of it as I couldn't find the promo anywhere. Looks very stylish. I guess Molly and Tanner were seen as one of their big stories or couples at the time, although from all I've read, viewers weren't engaged.

I think there is a wallowing in unreality now that affects all forms of entertainment. You look at The Substance, which was hyped based on a cautionary tale of wanting to remain young and beautiful, but most of the talk ended up being about how hot the actresses were. You look at SNL, a show that for many years had a large number of "normal" looking cast members, but in the last 10-15 years increasingly is populated by attractive, slim figures. Then there's Ozempic and Ozempic brothers and sisters, which have dangerous side effects and are meant to be used with caution, being pushed on everyone to help "prove" that if you don't have six-pack abs and a nonexistent waist, you are just a lazy pig. The move to HD also seemed to put more of an end to a grittiness or reality anywhere on TV. ATWT always had its share of glamorous figures, even in its earliest years, but there was a sense of the everyday and an emotional weight. I'm not really expecting anything out of Beyond the Gates - as soon as I heard Guza, Ron Carlivati, etc. were involved I checked out mentally - but I would like to believe the show can capture some of those elements and won't just end up choking on more camp or going the way of Tyler Perry's shows.

A part of me agrees, especially as it was clear the show had no real idea what to do with Val after the story was over (and this might have more believably pushed Ben into Cathy's arms), but I also don't trust the team who were at Knots in the mid/late '80s to do a great job with the story.

I'm glad the Tracy/Stella friendship hasn't been forgotten. One of the best parts of the show last year.