DRW50

There's a 1997 promo somewhere of Annie vs. Reva which ends with Reva throwing her purse across the room. IIRC, from what soap magazines at the time said, that was not an actual scene but was (allegedly) a real confrontation which somehow got into a promo. I do wish Wheeler had moved faster - maybe that was as fast as she could go, or maybe she took for granted that they would stay on. I know the show probably couldn't have improved drastically, but I do wish they'd had one year, and Irna's babies could have ended at the same time. I have already spent enough years comparing the GL and ATWT finales, but I agree. As someone who quit watching GL in disgust around the early/mid '00s the show did remind of its old self at the end. ATWT's ending was an extended Goutman ego trip. One show had a poignant death of a character whose passing was long overdue...one slaughtered a vibrant young man so we could get James Rehborn (wonderful as he was) playing chess for homophobes. The Grant Aleksander interview I posted a few weeks ago had him talking about learning GL was canceled because Ron Raines called him at Home Depot. He said they knew it was probably going to happen, but that believing something will happen and it actually happening are very different.

I guess he really was like Luke...

Thanks. I just hope this choice isn't why Billy is leaving, as they should have done all they could story-wise to make him want to stay. Maybe he had already told them he was going. I hope so.

Given the ratings struggles and likely budget issues as a result, I could see them cutting their losses, but they did have the Kristina secret brewing, which is one of the reasons I thought he was staying (that and just assuming JJ would be OK would be fine with sticking around even if he was poorly used). I should have known when the Kristina secret was exposed to Liz so matter-of-factly and she didn't really mind, which was not in character for her. It seems like Frank sandbagged this return from the start, maybe because it was forced on him, maybe because he figured JJ wouldn't stay (if JJ chose to leave). I think the main issue is Lucky just didn't really fit in with the canvas and hasn't for a long time. His child with Liz was never treated as an important character (and the show having him be gay made that even less likely to ever happen), and the Spencers mostly feel like a part of the show's past - Laura is just there, has mostly been just there for ages, and Lulu has mainly been a plot point enlivened by Alexa Havens. JJ and Becky still had chemistry, but not enough to make up for Lucky telling her she only had value while bleeding from a rape. I actually think it would have made more sense to have them split because of the Kristina lie, but at least Liz did get a moment to have agency (as much as the show ever lets her have) and if JJ and Becky wanted Lucky and Liz to part on positive terms, I can respect that. This does feel like a bit of a wasted opportunity, especially since we all know Liz is still not going to have anything to do, but they shouldn't have brought the character back. Nor should they have brought Jason back. A weird world where a recast, could-go-at-any-time Lucas and revolving door Ric both have more successful return stints than the boy who won the hearts of millions...but that's modern GH for you. I don't really mind Isaiah, although I don't pay enough attention to care. I agree there was no plot this time around. It's mainly the difference between no plot and a [!@#$%^&*] plot - I'd take the former. They did seem to be setting up a little something, but either the hate for Kristina got in the way or JJ just didn't want to play it. Either way, no big loss. I do hope they may write Kristina out too. At least for a few years. Oh and this make Guy Wilson stepping in for that important first kiss feel even stranger.

I would have to respectfully disagree...I think everything in JJ's last return nuked the character for future value.

Thanks as always @slick jones

Happy birthday, Bill.

I was incredibly moved by these scenes, especially Peter's performance. It felt so tender and real, especially when you remember Bo just got out of a years-long coma and wasn't going to be able to put up a front. You're reminded of how long these legends have populated the show when you have a 70 year old man grieving men who were almost 90 or 100, but Bo's response to Victor's death was a poignant reminder of how fresh these wounds are no matter your age. Normally these types of moments don't even make it in soap episodes in recent decades as they are seen as too boring. The more somber moments being balanced by Bo meeting his grandchildren was also lovely. And the scene where Bo forgave Shawn may be the only time I've been in lock with Brandon Beemer's take on the part. There's a certain element of suffocation with soaps, as shown here, when you remember so many of the kids are named after long dead relatives, or when they grew up, were paired with the kids of other longtime characters. That aspect always makes me yearn for new blood (new blood that doesn't suck, anyway), but there are other moments, like those with Bo, which make me appreciate all the history the show has.

@Dion @AMCOLTLLover @Bright Eyes

Thanks as always @Huntress always appreciate you popping in and sharing info about these shows. What are you thinking of them at present?

Kevin Kline's description of soap fans makes me laugh.

Not to ramble too far off topic but it happens a lot with comics too, especially only wanting to keep cheap talent around and pushing out creative voices. There are some patches where creatives can go to start their own worlds...wish that was true with soaps, but who knows, maybe it can happen someday. I never thought we'd get a new soap this year.

I think it's become more common in other genres in recent decades, as the industry as a whole has collapsed - these are complaints that have been made about creative talents in the MCU, Star Wars, Doctor Who, etc. The MCU is in that place now as they burnt so much goodwill that even when their new movie got strong reviews, the audience didn't show up - similar to how AW got some praise for their 89-93 material compared to some of the barren years beforehand, but viewers just weren't coming back. (I know they did return, somewhat, in the JFP run, but not enough to make up for the big budget she used)

I saw some people mentioning this and I was curious too - did Bo already know Caroline was dead? Maybe they decided it was too much for Bo to process losing Caroline along with Victor and Doug.

@asafi Thanks for sharing. A nice milestone. I'm not sure if she is referring to just DAYS, as otherwise she isn't alone (Ken Barlow and Rita Fairclough on Corrie are two others).

Someone making that must have had a laugh. I have to admit I never saw any chemistry between them.

@Paul Raven Thanks again. I guess this is the "demon fetus" story I remember reading about. I wonder if the dream plays out any better onscreen. And of course Tom Baldwin is back for more Steve/Audrey misery. I wonder if Lee returns in time to interact with him again. Mellie - I was going to ask if Shonda Rhimes was watching but she would have been 6 around this time. You never know...I probably started soaps around then. Speaking of Lee:

I put that down more to how badly written that period was than anything else, similar to how the only ideas for Rachel were blindness and amnesia.

Kristina needs a long break, so that would just leave Alexis. I think she works well enough in a supporting part, although they have written her into a corner over the years. Tracy has the best of both worlds as she can have tender moments with the people she cares about, then gets to throw all her trademark venom at Drew. I'm just glad the show was willing to knock the halo off his head.

It could have been interesting, given that she and Alex were friends. I imagine he would have ended up bringing out her Solita personality. For all the talk of crazy fans, for a long time fans did seem willing to embrace the rivals of...well, Reva's rivals. (no wonder Kim felt insecure as it happened three times with her) You don't seem to get as much of the tribalism until the "Manny" era. I guess some might say "Matessa" too, but as I could not stand Dinah in those years, I am not one to talk about their fans if they managed to repeatedly put the kibosh on a Matt/Dinah pairing. And at least that did not seem to involve death threats.

This was late 1993, right before Roger is shot.

That could be it too. I just remember a slap at some point. That would have been around when she was made at Holly for "ruining" her one-sided relationship with Alan Michael. I don't know if you will be getting to 2000 (if you do - buckle up!) but there's a character who was intended to be Stacy.

When written correctly or played correctly the antagonist will often have a sizable following, although this can go too far. It's why having a balance and allowing your heroes to be called out by other characters is so important. Speaking of that, I did not realize Sonni got a lengthy montage when Michelle Forbes left, or that Pam Long was willing to showcase Sonni/Josh so much for her farewell. The care taken reminds me of when Anne Heche left AW a few years later. Given that Sonni was brought in an as interloper, it shows just how much respect the show had for Michelle's talents and how much she captivated viewers in those two years. Oh I think Holly gives Blake a smack in the mouth. I think it was during Liz's early days as Blake as that is when they become estranged for a good while, although I may be wrong.

I was going to put this Lisa Brenner interview in the AW thread but I'm not sure she says much about AW in it. I admittedly skipped around a lot as the interviewer's style annoyed me.