DRW50

I do remember seeing a fair amount of criticism of ATWT around 1990 or 1991, although Marlena de Lacroix, IIRC, praises the show around 1991 (and points out the improvement). The Crawford story definitely got panned. I don't know what GL's submissions were for that time but I don't really know why they had their nose in the air over ATWT getting an Emmy for that story. I'm not sure if they are implying that the show got an aware solely because of a rape/incest storyline; if so, I don't agree. AMC had a similar story around the same time, and it wasn't exactly racking up nominations. Genie Francis, a big star on soaps compared to Alice Haining (who should have been nominated), didn't even get a nod. It's a very strong storyline. I went back and watched some again for the first time in a long time and there are some very ugly moments I had forgotten, moments I'm surprised even got through, like the various flashbacks Henry had to his mother controlling and abusing him. It wasn't just awards bait, the way a number of soaps treated those stories.

As @Planet Soap has already said, that wasn't their intent, but I do think the show, and CBS and P&G are walking a tightrope in trying a new soap in an era where many of the remaining soap viewers will likely never watch something they see as "woke" or "DEI" and many of the viewers who don't feel that way and do genuinely want to see more diversity (or want to see a black-led soap) will never watch a daytime soap. The promotion did not have the heavy-handed, patronizing feel of a lot of promotion today based on diversity (like the Doctor Who revival, where they decided to tell people to just not watch if they didn't like it), but if we're talking about why a lot of household viewers aren't tuning in, speculation about other ways of getting viewers is inevitable. Maybe those viewers who only go based on "woke" and "DEI" never would have watched anyway. They probably wouldn't have. In this case it's trying to figure out how to pick from two different groups of viewers who are both unlikely to watch the show. When Tunie was on ATWT, Marland and the producers of the time (Calhoun and then Caso) did a good job of making her become a focal point of the canvas without feeling heavy-handed. I think it was you who said the show hasn't really used her that much. So that's another example where I think they could have potentially brought some viewers who may otherwise not be interested in the show, as they would remember Tunie from ATWT and SVU, but they haven't.

Thanks @Paul Raven . I appreciate seeing some takes from the time. Interesting choice to claim the Marlers were a "bedrock" of Springfield until Marland. I do think Marland underused Justin, although the poor recasting of Jackie was a big factor. Ross was a presence in story, even if it wasn't about him. Lainie was long gone - not sure if viewers cared. Nothing against Ted Leplat, but what I've seen of him doesn't suggest the charisma Michael Zaslow brought to Roger. They also took years to get Roger to where Andy was from the start. Didn't viewers know before he even came to town that he had beaten Trish? The story is extremely unpleasant to watch. The blackmail aspect is the most interesting part, but that in no way makes the character viable in the long-term.

Comcast as a whole is in big trouble.

I remember a glimpse of them sitting together in the new opening credits from 1983. I would be interested to see when they became friends and if there was any acknowledgment of how much she despised him due to his scheming against Kelly (and because he didn't take Tony's karate class seriously enough).

Thanks. Hillary seems to worship Kelly to such an extent that she probably would have never been able to allow herself to bed him anyway. I definitely wouldn't call that period anti-sex. There are other moments I'd forgotten like Carrie bedding Josh and a guy who delivered papers. It's just something so cold and clinical in the show's presentation. I think part of the issue is just a certain malaise through the P&G soaps, and their struggles to adapt to a new world for daytime. That may be why the most popular GL couple of this period was the one who relied the least on sexual conflict (Quint and Nola). I get what you mean. I am going to assume Marland wrote the story this way to establish for us that this wasn't the "real" Carrie. Maybe that means if he and Jane had both stayed, we would have had exploration of Ross realizing he had never known, or loved, the real Carrie, something he did explore with Royce and Emily on ATWT (or his outlines explored, as he'd passed by that time). If we can only judge the story by what did air, I think it would work better if we'd seen more hesitation from Ross about their love story, him knowing deep down something wasn't right, and him falling apart when he realized the extent of her illness (maybe sleeping with a woman he meets in a bar). I can see why Jane thinks highly of the story, because her work is brilliant and this is the only time in her career she did not basically play the same character with different names and clothes. But I don't know how well it works as a part of GL, and I can see why Potter had enough.

Thanks. I hope some of that shows up someday. (or maybe it is in some clips/episodes I just forgot) I did forget about the scene with Trucker and Giff. Thanks. The little I've seen from 85-86 does seem flat, aside from some of the performances. I never knew Ava was waving a gun at Stacey. I guess this must have still been Patty Lotz. So Joe Breen didn't choose to leave? I couldn't remember. The Danny character being tied to the Rescotts would have been better, in part because we wouldn't have had the sleazy Danny/Ally material that made the character difficult to watch.

Thanks. I wonder if Rebecca ever wished she'd stayed at Loving, although she wasn't going to be at either show for very long. There isn't much of Colleen's Cecilia around. There was a clip of her in a bar with Rick, but I don't think it's on Youtube at the moment. She is also the maid of honor at Ava's wedding to "Clay," for some reason.

Speaking of Constance Towers, she would have been a good Alex recast after Beverlee left, but I don't think Constance ever did any East Coast soaps. I wonder when this would have been with Kelly. Marland seemed very determined to show us Kelly only loved Morgan. Maybe after Marland was gone? I'm not sure who he would have been sleeping with...Hillary? I haven't watched all of early/mid '80s GL, or even close, but I do remember a number of scenes from that period being in the 50th anniversary special to show us sexy times - Rita and Alan on the beach, Vanessa dropping her fur coat, and then India and Philip, half-naked, kissing in his office. The show did seem more overheated around 84-85 than what would happen after. That may be down to AIDS, but I remember some very sexually forward scenes on ATWT around 1987 and 1988 with pairings like Holden/Emily and Lily/Dusty. I think this is just something GL chose to move away from. Who was even meant to be a sexually forward character on GL at this time? Blake? By the time of most of the 1981 and 1982 GL episodes I've been able to see, any sex appeal seems to be at a low ebb. In some ways the show almost seems anti-sex in a way that reminds me of today's culture. Vanessa bounces between men and is seen as a pathetic bitch by all around her. Josh, being a hotshot recording figure from LA, was clearly meant to be a player, but he was just presented as cold and creepy. Tony and Katie had a fling, but instead of being seen as fun it all seemed a little sad, because we were meant to be reminded of what a good heart Tony had and he was just waiting for the right woman, and so on. Then there's Mark/Amanda, which was meant to be some kind of forbidden passion, not presenting onscreen (not helped by Mark Pinter never being an actor I'd say generated heavy sex appeal, maybe aside from some moments with Kim Rhodes on AW). As @DeeVee said, the show's handling of sexuality under the Dobsons does seem more layered and mature to me. This could be down to the Moral Majority or chasing GH or other causes...I think it may just be that the Dobsons trusted viewers and allowed for more nuance. Not as much time spent telling us how to feel and what to think. I haven't seen all of the pairing, but for a story that was meant to change Ross to the core (he had already changed somewhat due to his fondness for Eve, but Carrie is the one who truly put him on the righteous track), his own role does seem passive. They jogged and had some light banter, and... seemingly not a whole lot else.

Thanks again for all the reminders (of this as well as Ann's writing issues - I do think Callan White is a good actress, but Christine Tudor does pop and it's also easier to write for a character like Gwyn, at least in the '80s). Those are great ideas about what could have been with the Rescotts. I'd forgotten about the money they were cheated out of and which Kate forgave. Having them in conflict with the Aldens would have been very easy drama. Sometimes I wonder if Carly was so heavy in story (story that all ultimately went nowhere...) it made the show wary of bringing in more relations. You'd think that as Ava and Kate were such Agnes Nixon characters she might have had more interest in their backstory during her 93-94 run. You're right about the scene with Sherrie and Ava in the 1989 episode being a bit out of nowhere, although I guess we could say tensions flared up because Ava was trying to freeze Sherrie out of Kate's recovery. Sometimes I wonder what Marland would have done with Trisha if he'd stayed with the show longer. Several months after his exit, Cecilia arrives. I have seen little of her, but on paper we might say she is a blue-collar contrast to Trisha, similar to Meg and Lily, or Nola and Morgan. The difference is Trisha rarely seems to be written as entitled or elitist. By Loving '80s standards Cecilia lasts a fairly long time. I can never remember if Colleen Dion (the longest lasting Cecilia) wanted to leave or if the show was just done with the character. Even later on when the show delved into class conflict in her marriage to Trucker, it's more about Trucker's insecurities rather than Tricia being a big snob. She always seems to want to work hard with the opportunities given to her by her status, she is generally kind and understanding, if a bit out of touch at times. It's a credit to Noelle Beck that Trisha remains a compelling character even without any real flaws and with some iffy stories (like the whole Giff mess, which I don't even like to sit through).

Don't worry about it. I posted Marcy's TV-movie/pilot, whatever, Bar Girls, in there (I think). I always try to put stuff that actors made in the thread for the soap they were on at the time.

That's a good idea, although I guess then people would have said the show and CBS were ashamed of having a majority black cast.

Sheila probably could have used the good word of Ione or Terry... Thanks for the latest recap and analysis @dc11786 .

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Thanks. I had forgotten he'd left by that point.

I know she said it was cut short by a strike but there wasn't much left, I agree. The only way it might have worked is if she'd ended up getting a job with Laura or Richard - I would have enjoyed seeing Jane vs Constance.

This is very well said. @Paul Raven I was never sure if Marland had introduced the Tynans. Thanks. I get what he was saying about how you can't believe a big star as anyone but themselves, but Liz Taylor's GH cameo was one of the exceptions to the rule - she was a great choice for all the passion, camp and melodrama of the Cassadines.

Can this be moved to the politics thread? I apologize for my own part in any political stuff in here.

Thanks. Clearly those sites got her last name very wrong. It's hard to find anything on her. @Tisy-Lish Here she is around 14 minutes. Irna would have been spinning at such a sugary portrayal...

Recent interview with Roger Davis. It's about his Western work.

I hope so. We could all use a new positive path forward, in daytime, or anywhere.

I was trying to figure out if I saw him or if I saw Russell Todd in there anywhere.

I doubt it. They didn't seem to have a great deal of interest in most of the male characters they inherited. They probably would have continued the relationship with Claire, and she seems like a black hole.