On 4/19/2025 at 12:19 AM, Planet Soap said:

Go to Facebook soap pages and you will see the barrage of white commenters who will not watch a "racist" "DEI" majority black soap.  I truly applaud CBS for taking the risk and putting a new soap on air in 2025 ---a minority majority soap at that.

The thing about Facebook is that there's not one "homogenized pasteurized" view, opinion, style, perspective, etc. If you came to my soap group on FB you would not see anything at all like that. Actually, right now they're having a humorous conversation about product placement. Now, unfortunately I am sure there are people who would not watch BTG because, yes, they are racist but I think they're a minority. I applaud CBS & the NAACP and P&G for bravely going forward with this &, I think, making a lot of smart decisions along the way. 

 

On 4/19/2025 at 12:19 AM, Planet Soap said:

I thought Nicole's husband Ted was pretty good. Sucks that he's being recasted.

I spoke with one fan yesterday who expressed that to her, current Ted is the weakest actor. I was surprised although I did not express that but it was a good reminder to me that soap fans have such unreal variety of opinions!!!

On 4/19/2025 at 12:19 AM, Planet Soap said:

Same about Tamara Tunie. I expected her to be this Stephanie Forrester level Grand Dame.  Instead she's the equivalent of GH's Lila or ATWT's Nancy.  A wise loving grandmother who doles out advice but has no story---a talk to character. Anita reminds me of Dominique Devereaux on Dynasty, a black grand dame with so much potential, who turned out to be mild and well liked, with not enough story.

Ducks said good stuff was coming in April. It's April. I'm hoping some of that good stuff might be story for Tunie & I'm still holding onto the SF/SF style matriarch idea. When hard decisions get made, it's Anita that makes them. May Sweeps starts Thurs., 4-24-25!

 

 

17 hours ago, DRW50 said:

That's a good idea, although I guess then people would have said the show and CBS were ashamed of having a majority black cast. 

I don't want to come across as rude, but that is an INSANE idea. You don't handicap the marketing team by limiting their use of their key assets - the Black actors. You don't bait & switch your audience. For CBS to "pull that off" they'd have to embargo the cast list, etc. Does anyone think it would have had a higher premier and audience if 60% of the pre-show ads featured Nurse Elevator Baby? Not to pick on the actress, but should she have done the big interviews instead of Tamara Tunie? And that strategy would have limited the enthusiasm of the fans who've carried the show to respectable numbers for 2 months.

Honestly, reading the comments here the ratings expectations for a two month soap are crazy unrealistic. There is no need to hit the panic button. Read Toup's report: in week 7 a new show doing 77-81% of the #1 show in both major demos. Yes, there are only 4 soaps on broadcast now... but has that ever happened before? Come even close??

7 minutes ago, bongobong said:

I don't want to come across as rude, but that is an INSANE idea. You don't handicap the marketing team by limiting their use of their key assets - the Black actors. You don't bait & switch your audience. For CBS to "pull that off" they'd have to embargo the cast list, etc. Does anyone think it would have had a higher premier and audience if 60% of the pre-show ads featured Nurse Elevator Baby? Not to pick on the actress, but should she have done the big interviews instead of Tamara Tunie? And that strategy would have limited the enthusiasm of the fans who've carried the show to respectable numbers for 2 months.

Honestly, reading the comments here the ratings expectations for a two month soap are crazy unrealistic. There is no need to hit the panic button. Read Toup's report: in week 7 a new show doing 77-81% of the #1 show in both major demos. Yes, there are only 4 soaps on broadcast now... but has that ever happened before? Come even close??

Thank you. I mean, I can understand the idea behind it in a sort of a theoretical way. But, the instant we move to real-life applications ... no way, baby. 

2 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

WHOA. Hold on. I believe I can offer you assistance here. Ratings have never been about quality. They do not assess it & they do not predict it. 

Now one thing they did that I personally thought was very smart was to tie the pre-launch promotion & the launch in with Black History Month. If they'd decided to be coy, they could not have used that tie-in. (I am one who thinks the premiere was originally aimed at a Jan. date but was changed to Feb. because of Black History Month.)

And, you think that would be credible? People would actually believe it was some kind of coincidence? I do not. 

To clarify my post, it was a family member of mine's idea that CBS's should have been coy with marketing BTG as a majority black soap.

I don't think that move was a mistake, because it peaked my interest. 

I even responded to @DRW50 saying: "you cant' win"  which is my acknowledgment that even being coy about the cast's race would be picked apart.

As for Y&R and B&B's ratings, thats why I said in my original post "that must speak to audience loyalty"---which is my acknowledgment that ratings and quality are mutually exclusive. Believe me I know quality doesn't dictate viewership, otherwise B&B would be dead last

1 hour ago, bongobong said:

I don't want to come across as rude, but that is an INSANE idea. You don't handicap the marketing team by limiting their use of their key assets - the Black actors. You don't bait & switch your audience. For CBS to "pull that off" they'd have to embargo the cast list, etc.

The idea wasn't to conceal the cast. It was the opposite.

Again my move in that suggested idea would be to show the majority black cast prominently (without labeling it a black soap). If people try to criticize, then point them to towards the majority white casts of Y&R, B&B, GH and DAYS and ask them why they aren't complaining about that 🤷‍♀️. 

Then the racists are the only ones making the show about race.

At the end of the day, both of you are right in saying that racists will not watch the show no matter how it is marketed. 

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Planet Soap

41 minutes ago, Planet Soap said:

The idea wasn't to conceal the cast. It was the opposite.

Again my move in that suggested idea would be to show the majority black cast prominently (without labeling it a black soap).

Okay, so let's say that for the moment I look at the Theoretical idea of Being Coy about race, showing pix of the cast but not saying 'first black soap since' or 'first black soap ever'. Just Don't Say. You've just made race the elephant in the room.

I personally tend to think that we have systemic isms in our organizations, sociologically & societally, & businesses (since they're organizations) already have those isms being elephants in the room, right? LOL This to me does not seem like progress. 

So, odd but fun theoretical discussion. 

4 hours ago, bongobong said:

I don't want to come across as rude, but that is an INSANE idea. You don't handicap the marketing team by limiting their use of their key assets - the Black actors. You don't bait & switch your audience. For CBS to "pull that off" they'd have to embargo the cast list, etc. Does anyone think it would have had a higher premier and audience if 60% of the pre-show ads featured Nurse Elevator Baby? Not to pick on the actress, but should she have done the big interviews instead of Tamara Tunie? And that strategy would have limited the enthusiasm of the fans who've carried the show to respectable numbers for 2 months.

Honestly, reading the comments here the ratings expectations for a two month soap are crazy unrealistic. There is no need to hit the panic button. Read Toup's report: in week 7 a new show doing 77-81% of the #1 show in both major demos. Yes, there are only 4 soaps on broadcast now... but has that ever happened before? Come even close??

As @Planet Soap has already said, that wasn't their intent, but I do think the show, and CBS and P&G are walking a tightrope in trying a new soap in an era where many of the remaining soap viewers will likely never watch something they see as "woke" or "DEI" and many of the viewers who don't feel that way and do genuinely want to see more diversity (or want to see a black-led soap) will never watch a daytime soap. The promotion did not have the heavy-handed, patronizing feel of a lot of promotion today based on diversity (like the Doctor Who revival, where they decided to tell people to just not watch if they didn't like it), but if we're talking about why a lot of household viewers aren't tuning in, speculation about other ways of getting viewers is inevitable. Maybe those viewers who only go based on "woke" and "DEI" never would have watched anyway. They probably wouldn't have. In this case it's trying to figure out how to pick from two different groups of viewers who are both unlikely to watch the show.

When Tunie was on ATWT, Marland and the producers of the time (Calhoun and then Caso) did a good job of making her become a focal point of the canvas without feeling heavy-handed. I think it was you who said the show hasn't really used her that much. So that's another example where I think they could have potentially brought some viewers who may otherwise not be interested in the show, as they would remember Tunie from ATWT and SVU, but they haven't.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by DRW50

A big portion of the viewers who "drop" after Bold is that group that... pretty much only has 30 minutes to spare for a daytime soap. And that's it for them. No other reason.  I've been in that group many times in my life. Bold is very easy to pick up...  the storytelling is so elementary that a lot of people come back and they feel they haven't missed a thing. There's no way all of these people will watch for an hour and a half... every single day. (Bold and then BTG)  

And I am not talking about anyone's opinions... just stating mine - I don't give a f-ck about what RACISTS will watch and not watch. I really don't give a damn. I'm very happy that BTG is holding their head up high and not begging for viewers or using shady advertising strategies. We don't need that. The racists have their 24/7 show they can watch every single day... and you all know what that is. They have their "media". So I really won't let out a tear if a racist bitch is not watching after Bold. 

 

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Maxim

28 minutes ago, Maxim said:

A big portion of the viewers who "drop" after Bold is that group that... pretty much only has 30 minutes to spare for a daytime soap. And that's it for them. No other reason.  I've been in that group many times in my life. Bold is very easy to pick up...  the storytelling is so elementary that a lot of people come back and they feel they haven't missed a thing. There's no way all of these people will watch for an hour and a half... every single day. (Bold and then BTG)  

Yeah, a fair amount is said about it being the easiest soap to watch - only 18 minutes where it's easy to know what is happening because of an intentional choice to use repetitive story elements & even repetitive dialogue. If that's what some people are looking for, they cannot possibly have many shows to choose from!! Maybe it's a thing to be the only show that makes it that easy!!

38 minutes ago, Maxim said:

A big portion of the viewers who "drop" after Bold is that group that... pretty much only has 30 minutes to spare for a daytime soap. And that's it for them. No other reason.  I've been in that group many times in my life. Bold is very easy to pick up...  the storytelling is so elementary that a lot of people come back and they feel they haven't missed a thing. There's no way all of these people will watch for an hour and a half... every single day. (Bold and then BTG)  

This is another reason I wish they'd considered making a half-hour soap. I think 30 or 15 minutes are about all many can watch now. Tik tok videos seem to be the acceptable length for many these days. 

I do agree with you that I don't want to see racists catered to...it's unfortunate that is much of what is left of the daytime audience, due to soaps chasing away viewers who wanted more diversity or representation beginning in the mid '90s.

55 minutes ago, Maxim said:

A big portion of the viewers who "drop" after Bold is that group that... pretty much only has 30 minutes to spare for a daytime soap. And that's it for them. No other reason.  I've been in that group many times in my life. Bold is very easy to pick up...  the storytelling is so elementary that a lot of people come back and they feel they haven't missed a thing. There's no way all of these people will watch for an hour and a half... every single day. (Bold and then BTG)  

And I am not talking about anyone's opinions... just stating mine - I don't give a f-ck about what RACISTS will watch and not watch. I really don't give a damn. I'm very happy that BTG is holding their head up high and not begging for viewers or using shady advertising strategies. We don't need that. The racists have their 24/7 show they can watch every single day... and you all know what that is. They have their "media". So I really won't let out a tear if a racist bitch is not watching after Bold. 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head @Maxim👏

22 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

This is another reason I wish they'd considered making a half-hour soap. I think 30 or 15 minutes are about all many can watch now. Tik tok videos seem to be the acceptable length for many these days. 

I do agree with you that I don't want to see racists catered to...it's unfortunate that is much of what is left of the daytime audience, due to soaps chasing away viewers who wanted more diversity or representation beginning in the mid '90s.

Yeah, but that's half as much ad revenue. Or maybe even 45%

1 hour ago, Maxim said:

A big portion of the viewers who "drop" after Bold is that group that... pretty much only has 30 minutes to spare for a daytime soap. And that's it for them. No other reason.  I've been in that group many times in my life. Bold is very easy to pick up...  the storytelling is so elementary that a lot of people come back and they feel they haven't missed a thing. There's no way all of these people will watch for an hour and a half... every single day. (Bold and then BTG)  

 

100% I picked Bold up again regularly during COVID WFH. I had watched GH & Days previously but even when we weren't supposed to leave our homes I didn't want to sit through an hour of a daytime soap. God knows B&B isn't perfect, but it has the strongest identity of any soap since Bill Bell retired from Y&R.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

As @Planet Soap has already said, that wasn't their intent, but I do think the show, and CBS and P&G are walking a tightrope in trying a new soap in an era where many of the remaining soap viewers will likely never watch something they see as "woke" or "DEI" and many of the viewers who don't feel that way and do genuinely want to see more diversity (or want to see a black-led soap) will never watch a daytime soap. The promotion did not have the heavy-handed, patronizing feel of a lot of promotion today based on diversity (like the Doctor Who revival, where they decided to tell people to just not watch if they didn't like it), but if we're talking about why a lot of household viewers aren't tuning in, speculation about other ways of getting viewers is inevitable. Maybe those viewers who only go based on "woke" and "DEI" never would have watched anyway. They probably wouldn't have. In this case it's trying to figure out how to pick from two different groups of viewers who are both unlikely to watch the show.

 

We're fundamentally coming at this from complete opposite viewpoints. I don't see total viewers as an important metric at all in broadcast. This isn't the 90s: the 55+ don't pass shows onto younger generations because they watch their own stuff on their phones/tablets if the main tv is being used. CBS probably doesn't expect the show to run for 10 years either.

I 100% think having an almost all Black cast helps the show WAY more than it hurts. Does anyone honestly think the ratings would be higher if the Black parts were played by White actors and vice versa? CBS smartly created something for an under-served audience.

I haven't come across the diversity haters complaining about the show....but that's hilarious considering BTG is less diverse than Passions & Sunset Beach, the last 2 hour-long soaps to debut.

We're overthinking why the show shed viewers from its big premiere. It's the same reason as every show. People are curious, they sample, the ones who like it tune in again, the ones who don't stop watching. I'm in the later camp, but I give credit where it's due. Looking at the numbers, the show is still a success at this point.

1 minute ago, bongobong said:

I 100% think having an almost all Black cast helps the show WAY more than it hurts. Does anyone honestly think the ratings would be higher if the Black parts were played by White actors and vice versa? CBS smartly created something for an under-served audience.

The show having a majority black cast is great and is one of the ways to bring in new viewers or lapsed daytime viewers. Sticking with the status quo, or the agonizing tokenism of, say, GH, is a bad idea. I don't think anyone here would want to change that. I think some of us were just trying to figure out if there was any way to thread the needle in getting lapsed viewers and some of the remaining soap fans who may be less willing to give the show a try, but I guess it was never going to happen.

As a complete non-expert, we are missing two vital pieces of information.  

First we don't know BTG's ratings among Black households (which CBS knows, but doesn't get published).

And, second, we don't know the guarantee of ratings that CBS pre-sold for BTG.  We all know that commercial time is pre-sold based on a guaranteed base rate of the audience that is preferred by advertisers.  So, what we don't know is if BTG is underperforming on the guarantee.  Given, that CBS is very good at predicting ratings, I'm willing to bet that they are meeting the numbers that CBS promised when they sold the time.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by j swift

4 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The show having a majority black cast is great and is one of the ways to bring in new viewers or lapsed daytime viewers. Sticking with the status quo, or the agonizing tokenism of, say, GH, is a bad idea. I don't think anyone here would want to change that. I think some of us were just trying to figure out if there was any way to thread the needle in getting lapsed viewers and some of the remaining soap fans who may be less willing to give the show a try, but I guess it was never going to happen.

It still can, the show is only 2 months old! The show can improve (maybe it has already, like I said, I'm not watching) and get a buzz.

To be perfectly honest though, it might be tougher sell to have word of mouth trust if the social media commentary matched this board. Gaslighting is probably too strong a word... but reading the gushing comments from the first 2 weeks certainly didn't match what I was seeing on screen at all. I don't want to cast aspersions on any of the posters here - it's possible I'm in the minority opinion and they really did love the first 2 weeks that much - but I remember the Passions & Sunset Beach premiere opinions being MUCH more honest.