I can see an argument being made for PM needing someone with him that would still juice the show up a bit on adrenaline too. But the fact is we don't know what he would've done in that area without serious constraints, which there were clearly from the beginning (starting with cutting the cast). There was just never a window in which he was given a free enough hand IMO, at least from what I saw. What I did see of what seemed to be his vision I very much enjoyed. But that's the past. I think Frank, Chris, etc. are here to stay again.

2 minutes ago, Vee said:

It should've been a clean creative sweep in March.

Yeah.  I am not sure what ABC/GH/Disney/Whoever was thinking when hiring PM on and not cleaning out the entire creative team.  I get it's expensive, but it's was clear from the beginning no one was working together toward the same goal.   It seem destined to fail so Frank could get what he wanted again.  

I'll say this too: I think there is a universe where they recast Spencer immediately in February, Mulcahey comes in, you have story with Spencer and Trina and the spring and summer for GH look considerably different as a result. Spencer and that couple were that integral for the last year or two. Just saying.

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Was Claire Labine's start a little rocky upon her arrival or was the transition a smooth one? I'm thinking in terms of her being the last writer who was into a more character based show-something PM seemed to be attempting.

As others have stated, Riche had been working towards the tone, Labine and her team really focused on character helping story along. It was pretty seamless, and truthfully the last time the show had that kind of depth was when Marland was HW. PFS and Monty kind of created the GH format as we came to know it. It helped that show was at a high point in terms of casting and characters.

Tying the discussion to now, Labine’s first week IIRC she ended Karen stripping and she had a confrontation with Sonny about him manipulating her fragile state.

I can’t be up in arms about Jagger- this guy was not Jagger to me. And all that talk about Stone. Stone chose to stay with Sonny over Jagger. And Gina rejected both of them. And he hasn’t been with Karen for decades. He was unhinged, even if Sonny deserved it.

My issue is that by his own admission, Maurice cannot play emotional material for long anymore without real world complications in his mental health. That limits what they can do with Sonny. So that means nothing is going to happen to Sonny as far as real repercussions. 

This writing about the “real” mother of the child Kristina was carrying has moved well beyond being appropriate. They could get the same idea across without harping on that point. Is someone on the show pushing a conservative agenda in regards to surrogacy? That coupled with the fallout of the Blaze storyline with her mother is making me uncomfortable watching. It’s subtle, but it’s there.

1 minute ago, titan1978 said:

I can’t be up in arms about Jagger- this guy was not Jagger to me. And all that talk about Stone. Stone chose to stay with Sonny over Jagger. And Gina rejected both of them. And he hasn’t been with Karen for decades. He was unhinged, even if Sonny deserved it.

Same. He was this random blond stranger. I never found Harrington too impressive either. It was the writing that elevated him.

1 minute ago, titan1978 said:

This writing about the “real” mother of the child Kristina was carrying has moved well beyond being appropriate. They could get the same idea across without harping on that point. Is someone on the show pushing a conservative agenda in regards to surrogacy? That coupled with the fallout of the Blaze storyline with her mother is making me uncomfortable watching. It’s subtle, but it’s there.

Had they approached the storyline as Kristina feeling this motherly instinct towards Irene due to carrying her, all while acknowledging she were truly Molly & TJ's baby, then that would have been an understandable and compelling storyline. Instead, Kristina is fully engaged in being the MOTHER of Irene. It's insulting on so many levels.

2 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

This writing about the “real” mother of the child Kristina was carrying has moved well beyond being appropriate. They could get the same idea across without harping on that point. Is someone on the show pushing a conservative agenda in regards to surrogacy? That coupled with the fallout of the Blaze storyline with her mother is making me uncomfortable watching. It’s subtle, but it’s there.

Not for the first time in the post-RC, post-Trump years.

16 minutes ago, Vee said:

I can see an argument being made for PM needing someone with him that would still juice the show up a bit on adrenaline too. But the fact is we don't know what he would've done in that area without serious constraints, which there were clearly from the beginning (starting with cutting the cast). There was just never a window in which he was given a free enough hand IMO, at least from what I saw. What I did see of what seemed to be his vision I very much enjoyed. But that's the past. I think Frank, Chris, etc. are here to stay again.

Agreed! Korte wasn’t the right partner, and we will never know where anything was really going because by the end of March/mid April the troubles were showing onscreen.9

Just now, Vee said:

Not for the first time in the post-RC, post-Trump years.

It hasn’t hit me as strongly as these back to back stories have. But I also skipped almost all of Passanante.

Squeaking by on topicality, if any of you are planning to watch the latest "State of Mind" with Sarah Joy Brown be forewarned that it is extremely difficult to hear. Sarah was roofied & raped & she tells the whole story & it makes you want to scream, cry, hug Sarah, etc. It also makes you realize it's no longer possible to let someone you don't know, buy you a drink. 

45 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

As others have stated, Riche had been working towards the tone, Labine and her team really focused on character helping story along. It was pretty seamless, and truthfully the last time the show had that kind of depth was when Marland was HW. PFS and Monty kind of created the GH format as we came to know it. It helped that show was at a high point in terms of casting and characters.

Tying the discussion to now, Labine’s first week IIRC she ended Karen stripping and she had a confrontation with Sonny about him manipulating her fragile state.

I can’t be up in arms about Jagger- this guy was not Jagger to me. And all that talk about Stone. Stone chose to stay with Sonny over Jagger. And Gina rejected both of them. And he hasn’t been with Karen for decades. He was unhinged, even if Sonny deserved it.

 

You said what I was trying to say about Labine much better.  The tone of the show was right for her to come in and she tweaked and expanded characters that were lacking depth or purpose.  It always felt seamless to me.  I know Bill Levinson wasn't great and no one liked his work on GH, but I thought the show had improved a lot with the Levinson/Riche combo.

Agree about Jagger.  He's just another random FBI guy trying to take down Sonny.  I don't know what the draw or plan was here.  Karen and Stone were long dead.  Perhaps if Robin, Brenda, and his son were on canvas it may have worked.  But if Robin/Brenda were on canvas you wouldn't need Jagger anyway.  The audience isn't super familiar with Jagger anymore and neither is anyone on canvas besides Sonny and maybe Scott.  It was a bizarre choice, especially the casting.

1 hour ago, Vee said:

I'll say this too: I think there is a universe where they recast Spencer immediately in February, Mulcahey comes in, you have story with Spencer and Trina and the spring and summer for GH look considerably different as a result. Spencer and that couple were that integral for the last year or two. Just saying.

I don't think that NAC was getting along well with the producers behind the scenes. Because this the decision was made to not recast Spencer and kill the Sprina relationship.

 

Yesterday we had the first appearance of Ace since April. Tracy is the first character on the show to express hatred of Ace. Before now the characters around him believed that Ace was an angel.

3 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I don't know what the draw or plan was here.  Karen and Stone were long dead.  Perhaps if Robin, Brenda, and his son were on canvas it may have worked.  But if Robin/Brenda were on canvas you wouldn't need Jagger anyway.  The audience isn't super familiar with Jagger anymore and neither is anyone on canvas besides Sonny and maybe Scott.  It was a bizarre choice, especially the casting.

There wasn't one. There never is with these Frank memberberries returns. It's trying to get Twitter points from people easily pleased by random past callbacks. PM tried to make the best of it as a catalyst for change.

3 minutes ago, Aragorn said:

Because this the decision was made to not recast Spencer and kill the Sprina relationship.

No, that's not why those decisions were made. They were made, in order, because he was very popular and because they have no investment in a young Black female lead without him.

Edited September 4, 20241 yr by Vee

1 minute ago, Vee said:

There wasn't one. There never is with these Frank memberberries returns. It's trying to get Twitter points. PM tried to make the best of it as a catalyst for change.

I swear Frank just picked a name out of hat and went with it lol.   Even if Jagger was more about upholding the law and justice it would have made sense.  Bringing up a 30 year vendetta is so dumb.  Just hate Sonny because he's a criminal.  That's fine.

6 minutes ago, Aragorn said:

Yesterday we had the first appearance of Ace since April. Tracy is the first character on the show to express hatred of Ace. Before now the characters around him believed that Ace was an angel.

I usually ignore, but Ace is a baby.  WTF?  Is he plotting to freeze the world with the Ice Princess between naps?

9 minutes ago, Vee said:

No, that's not why those decisions were made. They were made, in order, because he was very popular and because they have no investment in a young Black female lead without him.

Yup!

Robert sounds terrible. He should not be on the show anymore.