1 minute ago, Khan said:

As a character, Brenda is too savvy and resourceful to be a heroine, and not cruel enough to be a bitch or vixen.  In these days, when characters on soaps tend to be one-note, that makes her a difficult character to write for.  So, I wouldn't want VM to return under the present circumstances, because I don't believe the current regime would know how to write her in a manner that wouldn't make us hate her in the end.  (Look at how they've reduced Tracy to little more than Tallulah Bankhead without the dry martini.)

You're back!!😍

It's a really hard call to say if I would want her back now.  Of course I do, but I don't want her to be the heavy for Nina/Sonny.  That's not worth my time.  In the last return Brenda was very much a heroine who needed everyone to save her and if she did try to save herself it was a big disaster.   I think she is complex, but I imagine her becoming more of a vixen under FV trying to steal Sonny from poor Nina. 

Only Frank would shy away from bringing back VM to re-pair with Maurice while the audience gets to watch Cynthia Watros do what she does best for an extended arc (go apeshit).

We have already strategized on exactly how best to utilize Vanessa long-term as the prime mover in future coupledom/story while relegating MB/Sonny to playing white collar patriarch on her arm approximately 50 times over the last few years on this forum, so I'll skip that paragraph this time.

1 minute ago, Vee said:

Only Frank would shy away from bringing back VM to re-pair with Maurice while the audience gets to watch Cynthia Watros do what she does best for an extended arc (go apeshit).

I think Josh Griffith attempted to do just that at Y&R with the Jack/Diane/Phyllis triangle, but it's all gone kablooey now that Phyllis has gone to the trouble of faking her own death, which feels in character for Phyllis, but also feels awfully excessive and cruel.  But, you're right, Frank Valentini wouldn't go that route, even if it played to Cynthia Watros' strengths, because he sees her and Nina as worth saving, for some reason.  (I like Watros, but I've never liked Nina, and I never will.)

Just now, Khan said:

I think Josh Griffith attempted to do just that at Y&R with the Jack/Diane/Phyllis triangle, but it's all gone kablooey now that Phyllis has gone to the trouble of faking her own death, which feels in character for Phyllis, but also feels awfully excessive and cruel.  But, you're right, Frank Valentini wouldn't go that route, even if it played to Cynthia Watros' strengths, because he sees her and Nina as worth saving, for some reason.  (I like Watros, but I've never liked Nina, and I never will.)

I think that's how most of the board feels. I have never gotten over the gruesome shít Stafford's Nina did to Ava when she gave birth (despite Ava being a largely remorseless killer from the jump) - something Carly actually brought up the other week onscreen - and I can sort of buy Ava/Nina's weird friendship now after that discussion, and the fact that they are perversely bonded by their twisted past with Silas Clay in NYC, but I still don't need Nina around. Yes, she and Maurice have chemistry and she seems to push him to deliver more, but if you bring Vanessa into the equation there's no comparison.

The Y&R thing with Phyllis is still insane to me. That should be the exit ramp for the character for years to come, especially since Susan Walters has really worked out.

1 minute ago, Vee said:

The Y&R thing with Phyllis is still insane to me. That should be the exit ramp for the character for years to come, especially since Susan Walters has really worked out.

For me, it all boils down to this: Jack Abbott, as portrayed by Peter Bergman, is not worth faking your own death for.  He just isn't.

At this point, I'd be okay with Nina dying and Watros returning as her twin; and if you want to pair her again with MB/Sonny, that's fine, although I think it'd be more interesting to see her possibly in a triangle with MEK/Martin and KS/Scotty.

Nah. It's as easy as a long arc where Brenda comes back with her gay-ass kid, makes Nina more and more insecure as she cozies up to Sonny and Lucy, they co-run Deception, somehow split it from Nina (who I think currently has a stake in it?) and they push her out or cross her in some way, she's getting close to Sonny again and the rest writes itself for like 12-18 months. There's plenty of mileage to get out of CW in a good role before exiting her naturally.

(It's not too late for them to have it turn out that St. Willow is faking, though. That would be so good.)

Edited May 6, 20232 yr by Vee

I hate Nina and always will.  She's not good enough with Mo to even attempt a twin.  I would like her going full Annie of course.  It's a good story.  Brenda in that story would be awesome.  Willow faking would have been awesome.  Perfect catalysts for Nina to lose it, but we will be subjected to Nina the heroine forever because Vanessa "turned Frank down" lol.

1 minute ago, carolineg said:

Perfect catalysts for Nina to lose it, but we will be subjected to Nina the heroine forever because Vanessa "turned Frank down" lol.

Until she asks for a bump above her current salary!

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

(It's not too late for them to have it turn out that St. Willow is faking, though. That would be so good.)

Are you talking about her cancer?  Yes, that would be good, lol.  But what would be even better, I think, would be that she THINKS that she's pulling a fast one but learns later on that, no, she really is dying -- but this time, because she's been outed, absolutely no one believes her!

1 minute ago, Khan said:

Are you talking about her cancer?  Yes, that would be good, lol.  But what would be even better, I think, would be that she THINKS that she's pulling a fast one but learns later on that, no, she really is dying -- but this time, because she's been outed, absolutely no one believes her!

We have populated the recent GH threads with way too many crazy ideas, lol. We discussed Fakin' Willow at length in the last monthly one, I think. Both that and this would be genius.

(There is also some solid discussion of the GH next generation issue in the SORAS thread, if I do say so myself. And I apologize for what I have done to the Knots Landing thread for the last 30+ pages.)

Edited May 6, 20232 yr by Vee

2 minutes ago, Vee said:

We have populated the recent GH threads with way too many crazy ideas, lol. We discussed Fakin' Willow at length in the last monthly one, I think. Both that and this would be genius.

Another idea or approach would be to say that Willow has cancer but goes into remission rather quickly, only no one, especially Michael, knows she's in remission because she's still pretending to be sick in order to continue receiving all the attention from everyone.

I mean, the BEST idea is that Willow dies.  But I would take anything slightly clever and/or manipulative from her.   ANYTHING that's not her being the most long suffering woman in the world.

As headwriters, Chris Van Etten and Dan O'Connor have trouble knowing when to cut their losses.  They finally offed Peter August, but only after everybody else in the known universe begged for him to be gone.  The same thing's happening now with Valentin and Willow.  Their take on these characters and others is clearly not connecting with audiences, yet they show no signs of course-correcting or just getting rid of them altogether.

I like what little I've seen or read of both those guys in interviews - they seem creative and funny. I don't blame them for a lot of the current mess of GH tbqh. I think ever since Ron got fired it's been Frank's Playhouse and all his worst instincts as he micromanages the storytelling and character focus (including Wes Ramsey and JPS - those actors don't get heavily featured unless Frank asks for it). That's why they had to rerun the Mayor Laura story twice, IIRC - once right before Genie quit because Frank wouldn't give her a contract, and they had to hastily slot NLG/Alexis into it, and then again when Genie came back.

Both Frank and Ron inherited that mindset of apres moi, le deluge for soaps. Because who's checking him these days with ABC barely taking note of the show? The only time we know for certain the network stepped in was with Franco a few years ago and refusing to allow him to bring back Todd post-#MeToo. Nonetheless, despite huge problems the show is a lot better now (or has a lot more potential) than it was/did for most of the Passanante, etc. interregnum. Which I suppose explains why more and more of us are watching again.

That being said, I'd demote both guys for longtime returning writers.

Edited May 6, 20232 yr by Vee

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

That being said, I'd demote both guys for longtime returning writers.

Or just someone who can't be bullied by Frank.  (Pete Lemay, wherefore art thou?)