Prime: LOTR: The Rings of Power

[I Am A Swede]

The more I read (and see) about this I become more and more convinced that it will be a disaster. It might look good, but storywise it will be a complete disaster....

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[Noel]

I get that weird feeling too. I tried watching their series A League of Their Own, and woof! That's usually how I feel when I attempt to stream anything that's on Prime Video.

[I Am A Swede]

O sweet Jesus, this is going to be much, much worse than I could ever imagine.  

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This was supposed to be an official part of Amazon's marketing to entice viewers to see their show....but they had to unlist it on Youtube, because they were getting slaughtered in the comments. Something that is completely understandable.

These are, according to Amazon, Tolkien "superfans" () that were invited to a private screening of a teaser trailer, and their reactions afterwards. This video should come with a warning label though. It made me want to wash my eyes with bleach.....

 

[I Am A Swede]

The people behind this travesty are hacks, and I really have no words to describe how I (and seemingly many, many others) feel, so I'll just let Professor Tolkien's own words do it for me.

"But I would ask them to make an effort of imagination sufficient to understand the irritation (and on occasion the resentment) of an author, who finds, increasingly as he proceeds, his work treated as it would seem carelessly in general, in places recklessly, and with no evident signs of any appreciation of what it is all about...."

"The canons of narrative in any medium cannot be wholly different; and the failure of poor films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not perceiving where the core of the original lies"

"I do earnestly hope that in the assignment of actual speeches to the characters they will be represented as I have presented them: in style and sentiment. I should resent perversion of the characters"

J.R.R. Tolkien

 

[Vee]

I mean, I'm no big LOTR fan and I am very skeptical about Amazon and this show which I probably won't watch, but it seems like you're almost the only one posting in here about how much you hate it. I haven't seen that much negative commentary on it online so far. I even went looking for it after you kept posting through it and have found almost none except for right wing nutjobs. Why not reserve judgment?

Edited August 18, 2022 by Vee

[I Am A Swede]

 

Unlike you I am a very big fan of Tolkien, not just The Lord of the Rings, which is only a part of his creation. I had issues already with Peter Jackson's films, both LOTR and The Hobbit. They looked beautiful (for the most part) and had moments of greatness, but they also took liberties with Tolkien's stories. This new show will also, from what I've seen, have some beautiful sets and scenery, but they have twisted and altered Tolkien's stories and characters almost beyond recognition. I realize that you must expect some alterations when it comes to adapting stories for a visual medium, but this goes way beyond mere alterations. I have also seen what you've seen, and I can't say I'm entirely comfortable sharing opinions with some of them, since I'm usually on the absolute opposite side, but it is what it is. The showrunners, and even the actors, have shown very little respect for Tolkien and his work, that has been very clear in every interview I've seen or read. 

When you have the executive producer (Lindsey Weber) stating: “It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like,”  then alarm bells went ringing. Why should that be natural? Tolkien's world is a fantasy world in a long-distant mythological past. Why would it have to reflect today's world? So that they can cram in today's political views is the obvious answer. But this was something that Tolkien himself was vehemently opposed to. I think it is highly disrespectful to go against an author's wishes, when they are so well-known, I don't care if the author in question has been dead almost 50 years. He wrote these characters the way they are because that's how he wanted them, and as I quoted in my previous post:  "I do earnestly hope that in the assignment of actual speeches to the characters they will be represented as I have presented them: in style and sentiment. I should resent perversion of the characters" (J.R.R. Tolkien)

And, no I'm not just talking about skin colour now. I'm talking about turning Galadriel into Xena, Warrior Princess for instance, when this is not how Tolkien described her. Tolkien was from another era, and his stories are set in a very, very, very distant past. To alter his works, which he spent more than 50 years writing and perfecting, to please our modern sensitivities is not ok. Call me old-fashioned if you will, or maybe even other things. The showrunners and actors themselves have already started doing just that.

I would have loved it if this show had been good and done justice to Tolkien's world. But it won't. And if they had done this show without attaching it to Tolkien in any way I would probably have felt differently about it than I do. But they haven't. They have done exactly what Tolkien absolutely didn't want. They have taken his stories, his characters, and his world and changed it into something else, something that is his in name only. Other people may have other reasons for critizing this show, that's up to them. But this is why I can't, and won't support this in any way. I gave them the benefit of the doubt when I first heard Amazon was gonna do this, but not anymore. I can honestly say that I have heard or read nothing, absolutely nothing about this show that I feel even remotely positive about.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by I Am A Swede

[Vee]

What is perverted about Galadriel being a warrior as a younger woman, hundreds of years before?

[I Am A Swede]

The simple fact that she's never referred to anything remotely like that in Tolkien's own writings. That's not who she is. Her strength is in wisdom, knowledge and counsel, in reading people's minds. Not brute force. Of course they've also eliminated her husband Celeborn and daughter Celebrian (later Elrond's wife and Arwen's mother), so that she can be portrayed as a strong, independent woman for a modern audience. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a little non-canonical romance planned for her as well....

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And she's hardly a young woman either. She was born in Valinor during the Ages of the Trees (the Ages of Starlight in Middle-Earth), long before the sun had ever risen. By the Second Age of the Sun she's already thousands of years old.

Edited August 18, 2022 by I Am A Swede

[Vee]

A younger woman, sure. I just don't see why she couldn't have been more physically oriented however many hundreds or thousands of years before LOTR happened.

[I Am A Swede]

You're absolutely right. She could have been that. If Tolkien had ever written her like that.

But he didn't...not in any published writings, and not in any unpublished writings. During the Second Age of the Sun, the timeperiod depicted in this show, Galadriel lives with her husband and daughter in different Elvish kingdoms in Middle-Earth. She spends some time in Eregion, but when Sauron, in his fair disguise, infiltrates the kingdom and helps the Elven-smiths forge the Rings of Power, Galadriel leaves for Lothlórien and so plays no active fighting part in the war between Sauron and the Elves after his betrayal is revealed. That is done by Elrond (characterized for this show as a canny young elven architect and politician) and Gil-galad.

In this upcoming show, she is apparently traveling around Middle-Earth hunting Orcs for revenge. She travels to Númenor, which she never did in Tolkien's writings, and meets Queen Tar-Míriel, before the Rings of Power are forged, when in reality Tar-Míriel lived around 1500 years after that, during a time when the Elves were no longer even welcome to Númenor, and she was never queen either. She was heir to the throne, but her cousin forced her to marry him and usurped her place as ruler.

I don't think one has to guess why these changes were made. We must have strong female queens and warriors if we are to attract today's audiences! Not women who wield their power in a more discreet way, away from the battlefields, or weak women who are cast aside by force and replaced by a man. Not after Game of Thrones! Who cares that it isn't true to the characters and stories that Tolkien created.

[janea4old]

Galadriel was a great elven being. She was not a goddess (Vala) nor a near-goddess (Maia); but she was trained by them. And within her elven power she eventually became almost as powerful as a Maia.

She was a knowledge warrior, not a battle warrior. (I've read the main books many times and also the Silmarillion etc).

Even way back when Tolkien wrote it all, he tried to introduce what feminism he could.  Certainly Eowyn was the Xena of her time.
I'm an elderly woman and I remember 50 (yes 50) years ago I dressed up as Eowyn for Halloween, as she was my favorite character. 
(Just as 1980s kick-ass spy Anna Devane was my favorite soap character).

Tolkien did write the Vala as balanced in power with male and female. That being said, I think that if Tolkien were writing today, he would have written Númenor to be more evenly balanced with women of power, or at least indicated that the women deserved to be in power at times.

Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were writing buddies and used to have coffee and discuss what they were writing.  CS Lewis wrote that "Númenor is Atlantis" but Lewis misspelled it as "Numinor".

I don't really know what the role of women was in Númenor, but it's interesting that it was destroyed by the ambitions of power-hungry men.
I think the High-Elves (Eldar who once lived in the Undying Lands) were more evolved about women's roles.

Galadriel in her youth had craved power, but then renounced all attachment to power by the time of the Lord of the Rings.

This is a very short summary of a very long life:
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Galadriel

Edited August 18, 2022 by janea4old

[I Am A Swede]

They were. The sixth king, Tar-Aldarion, only had a daughter, and he changed the law so that she could inherit the throne. Which she did, and she became the first ruling queen of Númenor, Tar-Ancalimë. Before that, if the king had no son, the nearest male kinsman of male descent from Elros Tar-Minyatur (Elrond's brother, and the first king of Númenor) would inherit the throne. There were two more ruling queens later, Tar-Telperien and Tar-Vanimeldë, and as stated earlier Tar-Míriel should have been the 4th ruling queen. But her throne was usurped by her cousin, who under the name Ar-Pharazôn, became the last king before Númenor's destruction.

Aragorn was also a descendant of the Númenorean royal family. His line, and that of Elendil, Isildur and Anárion, descended from Silmarien, who was the daughter and eldest child of Tar-Elendil, the 4th king of Númenor. She didn't inherit the throne, since the old custom that only males could ascend to power was still in effect at that time.

[janea4old]

yup. the power-hungry man creating destruction in his wake.

Edited August 18, 2022 by janea4old

[I Am A Swede]

A new teaser trailer was released today.

I'm going to say something nice, and admit that some of the visuals look good. But at the same time, with the budget it has it should look good. If this was a new show, set in a newly invented fantasy world, with other names, then I could even get a little excited. But, alas, it isn't. This is supposed to be Middle-Earth and Númenor, and the characters created by J.R.R. Tolkien. But there is nothing, absolutely nothing in this trailer that has anything to do with anything he created, except for the names. Such a pity.....

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[Taoboi]

As someone who was and continue to be an uberfan of Narnia, I can completely understand what you are saying about this. I tend to lean toward if something can capture the essence of a creation, I tend to be good with it myself...to use an example the old drama of Keenu Reeves as Constantine and people disliking him and it on the fact that he was not blond and the trenchcoat was not yellow, the setting isn't London, etc....but imo the movie (and he) captured the essence. 

 

And you at least have the writer's own words on your side so I can imagine. And yet...I feel you are still being more open minded to it than you are being given credit for. So...you do you. Hopefully, it will not greatly disappoint you.