Guiding Light Killed The Bauers

Young and The Restless let The Fosters and Brooks disappear

Days of Our Lives Had The Hortons but they nearly disappeared, The Andersons The Same

So Let's discuss how soaps commit suicide by Losing their own base losing they're core families

 

 

23 hours ago, robbwolff said:

The Another World Homepage shows a lot of this is urban legend. Irna was the one who got rid of Granny Matthews and the one who created Ernest Gregory. Lipton later introduced other members of the Gregory family. Alex Gregory stopped appearing while Lipton was head writer. A month later, Agnes killed off the character. She killed off one Gregory, not the whole family as has been claimed for decades. She dropped Karen Gregory days into her run and a month later wrote out Ernest.

I'm glad you referenced this as it has often been quoted as fact that Lipton put the Matthews on the backburner and focused on the Gregorys. And that Agnes Nixon killed off all the Gregorys.

As stated Irna dropped Granny Matthews and Susan Matthews. Alice was a supporting character, Russ was hardly seen.

The original focus was on Pat, Bill and Janet with Jim, Pat and Liz heavily involved.

Lipton kept those characters frontburner. He took the character of Ernest and got him involved with Janet in a triangle with Ken Baxter. His parents were introduced but they were supporting. Ernest's backstory was that he had been in love with Karen who married her brother Alex. Alex and Karen returned and that situation was played out.

Ken and Laura reconciled, leaving Janet to agree to marry Ernest. But when Alex was killed in a car accident,Janet worried Alex would turn again to Karen, so she refused to marry him. Ernest left town.

So it was hardly a takeover by the Gregory family.

In fact Agnes dropped the character of Janet Matthews who had been a main character since the beginning.

Edited June 15, 20223 yr by Paul Raven

14 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

I'm glad you referenced this as it has often been quoted as fact that Lipton put the Matthews on the backburner and focused on the Gregorys. And that Agnes Nixon killed off all the Gregorys.

I'm grateful for sites like the Another World Home Page because they shed clarity on the actual history of soaps and disprove much of this misinformation. I have seen that line about Agnes Nixon killing off all the Gregorys for years. I think it even made its way into books about soaps. Didn't she supposedly kill the whole family off in a car or plane crash?

As you pointed out, Bert and Cora Gregory were minor supporting characters. From what I read, Bert lasted all of three months and Cora lasted for about four months. They were both dropped while James Lipton was writing. I didn't know that House Jameson and Florence Williams portrayed Bert and Cora. A few years later, they were both cast on The Doctors in the roles of journalist Nathan Bunker and Edna Hamilton (Althea's mother).

1 hour ago, robbwolff said:

I I didn't know that House Jameson and Florence Williams portrayed Bert and Cora. A few years later, they were both cast on The Doctors in the roles of journalist Nathan Bunker and Edna Hamilton (Althea's mother).

And both were fantastic in their roles!

I'd say with Y&R there is more to the story. In 80-81 most or all the core characters were onscreen, definitely by 1981 all the Brooks sisters, Stu, Liz and the Foster kids were on canvas and had story.

In late 81 both Pamela Solow (Peggy) and Wings Hauser (Greg#3) left the show and Greg was recast and Peggy was supposed to be recast but wasn't. Howard McGillan (Greg #4) just didn't work, I'd say in large part because Howard seemed slightly more like Jim Houghton's Greg and Wings had a method actor vibe to him, though he mostly seemed a little over wrought all the time. You can't turn back the clock and it seems Howard barely appeared except as a supporting character to Jill and sometimes Chris. He probably stopped appearing by July 1982.

In spring 1982, David Hasselhoff (Snapper#2) left for good and recasting Snapper wasn't going to be easy and I don't blame the show for not trying. Next Jaime-Lyn Bauer (Lorie) left, another one who couldn't really be replaced. Next Lynn Topping (Chris#2) was let go, it made little sense for Chris to stick around when Snapper was gone, though Bell tried. Although considering they let Lynn go in 1980 without a recast, I don't think he tried too hard. I liked Lynn, not sure Bell was as invested.

That left Deborah Adair (Jill#3) and Victoria Mallory (Leslie#2). Bell tried to link them to new families, for Jill this was dynamite as she worked in the newly formed and already popular Abbott family. The Laurence family didn't gel and he let them loose and then dropped the axe on Leslie. I honestly don't think Bell was as inspired by Victoria Mallory as he had been Janice Lynde and I think it was harder to make Leslie work without Lorie with Victoria in the role. He tied the two together too much. I found Lynde seemed to hold as much onscreen power as Jaime-Lyn and I think Bell would have had her and Lorie sharing the spotlight more. I feel under Victoria, Leslie was a supporting player to Lorie. 

Stu would go six months later and Liz a few years later. 

I think Bell would have kept his core families, but it was getting harder and harder for him to maintain interest as original actors left and recasts left or didn't work out. I also think he created the Abbotts because JLB was going and he had a very fractured set of original core characters and needed a stronger foundation. Bell always said the show was more important than anything else, no actor, character or writer was above it. I think he did what he had to do to help the show survive. 

 

13 hours ago, robbwolff said:

Didn't she supposedly kill the whole family off in a car or plane crash?

Eddie Drueding finally debunked that. Only the one son, Alex was killed in a car accident. Janet then freed Ernest to marry Karen, who he was still in love with. I'm curious how that theory came to be though lol

On 6/13/2022 at 3:10 PM, AMCOLTLLover said:

Lucas Horton? Allie? There are still a lot Hortons. Don’t know why people pretend like the Hortons don’t exist anymore

Yeah, I'm not sure why this is becoming a narrative. Obviously they've made some mistakes, but we have Lucas, Allie, and Sarah all with the last name Horton onscreen and in story right now. Will is recurring. Ciara's around for the time being. Shawn is in the middle of a story. Abigail just died, but you know they'll undo that at some point (which is a whole other issue). Eli has been minimized because of the actor's availability, but he's in story, as is Julie, an original character. The family tree is spread out more than it used to be, and there are branches missing that could be filled in, but it's not like the family has been wiped out. 

Do those Horton characters interact much? Would a newer viewer get a sense of a strong family unit?

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Do those Horton characters interact much? Would a newer viewer get a sense of a strong family unit?

Lucas has a strong sense of Horton-hood as he proudly chose it as his name once he learned he was entitled to it & through his alcoholicism he is close to Maggie who is a Horton by prior marriage & she was very close to Alice. Lucas & Allie are close as she was was in his care growing up as much as Sami's. He & Jenn are close. Jenn was very close to Laura & to Abby. I think the Hortons & the Bradys hold up well as core families. The annual Horton ornament-hanging is still a big thing.

9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Do those Horton characters interact much? Would a newer viewer get a sense of a strong family unit?

Sometimes they actually force it a little TOO much. They had Abigail talking about needing to save "my cousin Sarah" even though we'd hardly ever seen the two interact. At this point, it's more that there are several different branches of the family, all grown out from Tom and Alice. I'm not super-close with my third cousins, but they're still family. And they still feature the Horton house prominently, with Julie and Doug living there now that Jennifer and Jack are only around part-time (which is an actor issue for Jennifer, not the show's choice). There were significant scenes in that living room on Tuesday's episode in which Julie learned about the history of Juneteenth, which is important because she has a Black grandson and Black great-grandchildren. It's more an evolved version of the family, but I really do not feel like the Hortons have been purposely minimized in the last few decades.

On 6/16/2022 at 6:58 AM, will81 said:

I'd say with Y&R there is more to the story. In 80-81 most or all the core characters were onscreen, definitely by 1981 all the Brooks sisters, Stu, Liz and the Foster kids were on canvas and had story.

In late 81 both Pamela Solow (Peggy) and Wings Hauser (Greg#3) left the show and Greg was recast and Peggy was supposed to be recast but wasn't. Howard McGillan (Greg #4) just didn't work, I'd say in large part because Howard seemed slightly more like Jim Houghton's Greg and Wings had a method actor vibe to him, though he mostly seemed a little over wrought all the time. You can't turn back the clock and it seems Howard barely appeared except as a supporting character to Jill and sometimes Chris. He probably stopped appearing by July 1982.

In spring 1982, David Hasselhoff (Snapper#2) left for good and recasting Snapper wasn't going to be easy and I don't blame the show for not trying. Next Jaime-Lyn Bauer (Lorie) left, another one who couldn't really be replaced. Next Lynn Topping (Chris#2) was let go, it made little sense for Chris to stick around when Snapper was gone, though Bell tried. Although considering they let Lynn go in 1980 without a recast, I don't think he tried too hard. I liked Lynn, not sure Bell was as invested.

That left Deborah Adair (Jill#3) and Victoria Mallory (Leslie#2). Bell tried to link them to new families, for Jill this was dynamite as she worked in the newly formed and already popular Abbott family. The Laurence family didn't gel and he let them loose and then dropped the axe on Leslie. I honestly don't think Bell was as inspired by Victoria Mallory as he had been Janice Lynde and I think it was harder to make Leslie work without Lorie with Victoria in the role. He tied the two together too much. I found Lynde seemed to hold as much onscreen power as Jaime-Lyn and I think Bell would have had her and Lorie sharing the spotlight more. I feel under Victoria, Leslie was a supporting player to Lorie. 

Stu would go six months later and Liz a few years later. 

I think Bell would have kept his core families, but it was getting harder and harder for him to maintain interest as original actors left and recasts left or didn't work out. I also think he created the Abbotts because JLB was going and he had a very fractured set of original core characters and needed a stronger foundation. Bell always said the show was more important than anything else, no actor, character or writer was above it. I think he did what he had to do to help the show survive. 

 

I want the Brooks and Fosters back! The next generation of them would be refreshing. And the writers looking back at how masterful Bill Bell was when writing those characters back then. The way he wrote them and integrated them amongst other characters, families, and storylines. I like YR but right now, they are just not as entertaining. And the thing is there are characters and elements there that could definitely give it that fire. But I would love to see both of these families (Brooks and Fosters) revived!

On 6/13/2022 at 8:46 AM, Paul Raven said:

One important factor for core families is the generational aspect. New younger family members are needed as the years go by. 

But on the flipside, writers don't want to saddle characters with too many children.

Some examples

AW The Matthews

Pat was given twins, who were rapidly SORASED born in 1970 teens by 75 and dropped, never seen again.

Russ had no children despite 4 marriages (later retconned)

Alice adopted Sally (who was killed off)

Susan had no children (later retconned with adopted daughter Julia who was killed off)

Bill had no children (a stepson Ricky, who was never used0

So not really much there to build upon.

The characters they might have used (the Randolph twins, Ricky were never used ,despite potential)

When there was a a renewed interest in the late 80's, Russ returned and given a daughter Josie, but he was dropped and her lineage as a Matthews was pretty much ignored.

I loved AW! How I wish that they would have revived the Matthews family when it was on. It needed to happen. The Matthews family was a very integral part to the show and they had so much history. Writers should have been weaving them back into the fabric of the show. Josie as a Matthews should have been more prevalent.

Y&r had the opportunity to revive the past by making the Ashland character Brooks Prentiss.

Obviously the story points would have to differ but Brooks would have been the new dynamic businessman in town who romances Victoria.

Lorie and Leslie could make appearances and their history come into play. Lots of possibilities there.

2 hours ago, LoveMyDaytimeSoaps said:

I want the Brooks and Fosters back! The next generation of them would be refreshing. And the writers looking back at how masterful Bill Bell was when writing those characters back then. The way he wrote them and integrated them amongst other characters, families, and storylines. I like YR but right now, they are just not as entertaining. And the thing is there are characters and elements there that could definitely give it that fire. But I would love to see both of these families (Brooks and Fosters) revived!

I loved AW! How I wish that they would have revived the Matthews family when it was on. It needed to happen. The Matthews family was a very integral part to the show and they had so much history. Writers should have been weaving them back into the fabric of the show. Josie as a Matthews should have been more prevalent.

I loved so many shows but AW was my first and foremost, my number 1 & still occupies that special spot in my heart & brain & we needed core family members back like crazy!

On 6/15/2022 at 5:07 PM, robbwolff said:

I'm grateful for sites like the Another World Home Page because they shed clarity on the actual history of soaps and disprove much of this misinformation. I have seen that line about Agnes Nixon killing off all the Gregorys for years. I think it even made its way into books about soaps. Didn't she supposedly kill the whole family off in a car or plane crash?

 

The document entitled AW CREATION by Eddie Drueding & Lynn Liccardo & Elana Levine (2018) debunks more about the show than I've ever imagined could or would be ferreted out! http://www.anotherworldhomepage.com/creation.htm  And, it's a very interesting read, too!

re aw creation: i believe that eddie drueding wrote that piece; liccardo and levine are quoted as sources.

1 hour ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

re aw creation: i believe that eddie drueding wrote that piece; liccardo and levine are quoted as sources.

Oh, thnx for correcting that then. I misunderstood & thought it was a jointly done piece. Appreciate the 411. I still recommend it as an important read!

1 hour ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

re aw creation: i believe that eddie drueding wrote that piece; liccardo and levine are quoted as sources.

Thank you for the correction. I mistook that.