1 hour ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

 

while mitchell may have been in the closet, according to both arthur laurents’s and farley granger’s memoirs, he was extremely popular back in the day. 

 

I doubt Mitchell was in the closet. Same with most people mentioned in this thread. I am sure 90% were open about their live in their extended circle, they were not out with 2024 standards (they didn't post about it on Instagram).

26 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

I doubt Mitchell was in the closet. Same with most people mentioned in this thread. I am sure 90% were open about their live in their extended circle, they were not out with 2024 standards (they didn't post about it on Instagram).

Well, he like so many soap actors was in the closet to most of the fans. But he & his partner lived completely open lives in NYC.

19 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Well, he like so many soap actors was in the closet to most of the fans. But he & his partner lived completely open lives in NYC.

Who cares about the fans Contessa? These people lived their lives and they could and not should care less about the people reading the soap magazines. I don't consider being not "being out to the fans" being in the closet. 
Now getting married, having kids, lying to the wife and all, is another thing. 

48 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

Who cares about the fans Contessa? These people lived their lives and they could and not should care less about the people reading the soap magazines. I don't consider being not "being out to the fans" being in the closet. 
Now getting married, having kids, lying to the wife and all, is another thing. 

They cared. Tony Geary, Susan Flannery, Ian Buchanan, if they hadn't cared about the fans, or that it would impact their jobs they'd have come out. I absolutely consider it a closet. YMMV. 

9 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

They cared. Tony Geary, Susan Flannery, Ian Buchanan, if they hadn't cared about the fans, or that it would impact their jobs they'd have come out. I absolutely consider it a closet. YMMV. 

Sharing your personal life with random strangers who want to marry you is not being in the closet. If everybody in your life knows, who cares about the people who watch a soap opera (which was not the actor's real life btw)?

It is like visiting an aunt you don't really care about and she keeps asking you about your personal life. We are the annoying aunt. That's the reason I believe we are unfair to these people.

29 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

Sharing your personal life with random strangers who want to marry you is not being in the closet. If everybody in your life knows, who cares about the people who watch a soap opera (which was not the actor's real life btw)?

It is like visiting an aunt you don't really care about and she keeps asking you about your personal life. We are the annoying aunt. That's the reason I believe we are unfair to these people.

Are you familiar with the movie SOAPDISH? In it periodically the HW takes the star to a mall in a nearby town & lets on about who she is so she gets that adoration. To me we are the people at the mall. And, again YMMV. 

A whole 'nother subpoint could be made about the good that could accrue from having high profile people come out of the closet & while I believe that to be true I don't really think it is germane to this topic.

1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Are you familiar with the movie SOAPDISH? In it periodically the HW takes the star to a mall in a nearby town & lets on about who she is so she gets that adoration. To me we are the people at the mall. And, again YMMV. 

A whole 'nother subpoint could be made about the good that could accrue from having high profile people come out of the closet & while I believe that to be true I don't really think it is germane to this topic.

I just think that judging people from the past by today's standards and rules is one of our society's biggest problems. They did just fine. 

PS: Not all viewers are people at the mall. I know that I wouldn't run to a soap actor for any reason. And the HW knows who is gay and who is not. So what closet lol. Who cares about the mall closet. And trust me, gay kids got a lot of strength from the "closeted" people. They could smell them from far and adore them. 

That's ok, we have different opinions Contessa. Take care 🤩

18 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

I just think that judging people from the past by today's standards and rules is one of our society's biggest problems. They did just fine. 

I am not judging anyone! Every one has to choose their own path. The anecdote I shared about James Mitchell, in fact, someone who was in a closet to most of his fans, is in itself a compliment to him & to the leadership at AMC at the time. 

18 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

PS: Not all viewers are people at the mall. I know that I wouldn't run to a soap actor for any reason.

Not all anybody is always anything. People are different. Me, I become absurdly star struck & shy. 

18 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

And the HW knows who is gay and who is not.

Who cares what the HW knows or does not know. It really does not matter. 

18 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

So what closet lol.

I already said what closet. 

18 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

And trust me, gay kids got a lot of strength from the "closeted" people. They could smell them from far and adore them. 

Are you nuts? I WAS one of those gay kids, in a small town, when there was NO REPRESENTATION. Absolutely no one in society looked or seemed or acted like me. There was no smelling nobody from afar to adore!!!! When I was a depressed teen lesbian girl I would have given my first born child to have known that Connie Ford was gay. 

It is not a problem that we've had different experiences. It is a problem if someone diminishes someone else's. 

18 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

That's ok, we have different opinions Contessa. Take care 🤩

And, I say again YMMV. And, clearly this is an instance where you & I do have different mileage & it is okay that we do. 

Edited June 3, 20241 yr by Contessa Donatella
typo

6 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

 

Are you nuts? I WAS one of those gay kids, in a small town, when there was NO REPRESENTATION. Absolutely no one in society looked or seemed or acted like me. There was no smelling nobody from afar to adore!!!! When I was a depressed teen lesbian girl I would have given my first born child to have known that Connie Ford was gay. 

 

What is not ok you calling me nuts though. I would expect someone who has been called that word a lot around here, not to use it to a person who has always been supportive. 

Unless you were totally clueless, anyone interested in soaps and the actors soon worked out who was gay. 

2 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Unless you were totally clueless, anyone interested in soaps and the actors soon worked out who was gay. 

I know many many people for whom that was not true. Whether they were naive or Pollyannas or simply unaware of gay folk in any realistic sense of the word, people who would fight you that no, Tony Geary was not gay, that he was in love with thus & so woman. Etc. Just one example. 

35 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

What is not ok you calling me nuts though. I would expect someone who has been called that word a lot around here, not to use it to a person who has always been supportive. 

I apologize. Very strong emotions were provoked by what you said. To me what you said was not okay. But, it is true that I do not hold with name-calling, so I am sorry. 

5 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I know many many people for whom that was not true. Whether they were naive or Pollyannas or simply unaware of gay folk in any realistic sense of the word, people who would fight you that no, Tony Geary was not gay, that he was in love with thus & so woman. Etc. Just one example. 

Yep, like I said, clueless.

Just like the Ricky Martin fans and way back to Barry Manilow and Liberace.

3 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Yep, like I said, clueless.

Just like the Ricky Martin fans and way back to Barry Manilow and Liberace.

Okay, I see what you mean. I can agree with clueless in that sense. There was a time when I was that naive, that sheltered, and it wasn't because I was stupid or not thoughtful, it was entirely because my frame of references offered absolutely no examples of anything but plain jane straight people. It was hideously uncomfortable knowing I was different, so different, and always had been, but having NO CLUE what that meant. 

Another thread derailed by you know who. It’s always gotta be about ME. SMH.

James Mitchell was always out. Even in his responses to fan letters, he talked about his male partner. Susan Flannery never gave a (blank) about what people knew or talked about her. The list goes on and on. Too many to list and yes, it wasn’t hard to figure out even way back then. 

Perhaps in 2024 we need new idioms rather than closeted?

There has to be a difference between a public official like David Dreier or Jim McGreevy who were outed because they were elected based on a political platform which was antithetical to their private lives. And actors who lived openly, but whose love life was obscured by PR.

I feel as if I've made this point throughout this thread, but James Mitchell is a perfect example.  He lived openly as a gay man from his time as a dancer on Broadway in the 1960s.  It may not have been obvious to viewers of AMC, because in a world where every song, painting, and poem is about heterosexual love, it is not top of mind. 

Those “in the know” may have lamented that one of the few roles for LGBTQ actors in soaps were the twisted villains who were a barrier to young love (which, in hindsight, was an ironic projection on the part of writers and producers).  But, I think it is unfair to judge actors of that time who were not given the opportunity to talk about their lives.  Or, the fans who assumed the norm because few other examples were available.  And to continue to treat being gay as a gossipy datalounge-issue secret doesn't feel as if it fits the vibe of modern culture.

Edited June 3, 20241 yr by j swift