Dallas went off the rails in the aftermath of Pamela disappearance. In the grand scheme of things, Victoria Principal was smart to walk away when she did. She clearly stacked her Dallas coins and then built her skincare brand.

8 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Dallas went off the rails in the aftermath of Pamela disappearance. In the grand scheme of things, Victoria Principal was smart to walk away when she did.

If anything, I think she stayed a year or two too long. DALLAS was going off the rails way before The Shower Heard 'Round the World, lol.

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

If anything, I think she stayed a year or two too long. DALLAS was going off the rails way before The Shower Heard 'Round the World, lol.

Yes, there was a ratings drop starting March 1985, but I think tanking started in the aftermath of Bobby car accident.

That March 1985 rating drop lead to Dallas losing #1 to Dynasty and we also saw Murder, She Wrote season 1 finale shock the world.

3 minutes ago, kalbir said:

That March 1985 rating drop lead to Dallas losing #1 to Dynasty and we also saw Murder, She Wrote season 1 finale shock the world.

I'm probably wrong, but I feel like the storyline with Jenna and Naldo had not a little bit to do with DALLAS' ceding ground to DYNASTY.

Edited yesterday at 01:55 AM1 day by Khan

48 minutes ago, Khan said:

I've always believed that VP never cared for the "boys' club" mentality that permeated the DALLAS set and allowed Larry Hagman, in particular, more power than he should've had. VP just wanted to come in, do the work and then go home.

Exactly. Larry and Patrick would screw up scenes trying to be funny. Imagine as an actor in the middle of a scene and nailing it then they have to cut because of all that juvenile crap and having to reshoot and work long hours. Patrick Duffy became insufferable when he returned. He, Larry, and Katzaman returned to the "Boys Club" mentality and threw the women under the bus. I think Katzman got rid of Phil Capice and was given immunity to do whatever he wanted to do. He overrode David Jacobs when he told Katzman that Bobby's death as a dream was a stupid plot.

I was going to lambaste Cidre for killing Pam until I saw that they had already given her a terminal illness near the end of the original show. What a stupid, pointless decision.

Given how dreary anything I saw of the Dallas revival was, I imagine even if Victoria had returned, Pam's return would have just been more of the same.

This is one of those occasions where I genuinely think cheesy fan films would have been better than the reboot.

Edited 23 hours ago23 hr by DRW50

I think the bigger issue is that by the 2010s, the pacing of most primetime dramas (or soaps if they dared to still be called them) had wildly changed.

You saw it first at both CW revivals of 90210 and Melrose Place. However fast the original MP moved through plot and character beats (and it could move real fast), the storylines on the new shows seemed powered by amphetamines. You'd get half a beat or two and then it would whiz on. Empire had the same problem which we all noted when that show hit - they would burn through guest characters and plot twists in an episode or two, tops. It caught up to these shows fast. But that was the mentality re: primetime soaps in that era in the late aughts/early '10s.

I couldn't say if it's changed since the streaming era, since I don't really watch any network dramas today. Streaming and premium cable shows are a different beast, and most don't seem as desperate to speed through plot and character as something in a 45-minute slot with commercials - even when their stories or characters are very bad on some of those shows, they have the time to spend or waste on them. By contrast I have no idea if Grey's or the Taylor Sheridan shows, or whatever else passes for network or network-adjacent drama today do take the time. I just remember how breathless "primetime drama" had become, just before Netflix and HBO consumed everything.

I have been vocal about finding a lot of Dallas repetitious and plodding because the plots would generally default to J.R. vs. all these other fools in his life. But the actors all worked hard. I do think it would merit a strong revival, but I would make it short and smaller scale. The problem is whether or not it's a 1:1 match, Taylor Sheridan has kind of cornered that entire space with Yellowstone and its umpteenth spinoffs and clones (The Ranch, Landman, etc.) that all deal with family, the heartland, oil or ranching. And without Larry Hagman you have lost a major draw. Everyone would be wondering if it's another Sheridan show (and no, I haven't watched them).

2 hours ago, Khan said:

I'm probably wrong, but I feel like the storyline with Jenna and Naldo had not a little bit to do with DALLAS' ceding ground to DYNASTY.

Jenna trial was the main story in the March 1985 episodes.

So your timeline has tanking starting with Jenna trial and going off the rails sometime in Season 9? Season 9 saw Dallas venturing into international intrigue but that didn't work. Angelica Nero was straight out of a James Bond movie.

31 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think the bigger issue is that by the 2010s, the pacing of most primetime dramas (or soaps if they dared to still be called them) had wildly changed.

You saw it first at both CW revivals of 90210 and Melrose Place. However fast the original MP moved through plot and character beats (and it could move real fast), the storylines on the new shows seemed powered by amphetamines. You'd get half a beat or two and then it would whiz on. Empire had the same problem which we all noted when that show hit - they would burn through guest characters and plot twists in an episode or two, tops. It caught up to these shows fast. But that was the mentality re: primetime soaps in that era in the late aughts/early '10s.

I couldn't say if it's changed since the streaming era, since I don't really watch any network dramas today. Streaming and premium cable shows are a different beast, and most don't seem as desperate to speed through plot and character as something in a 45-minute slot with commercials - even when their stories or characters are very bad on some of those shows, they have the time to spend or waste on them. By contrast I have no idea if Grey's or the Taylor Sheridan shows, or whatever else passes for network or network-adjacent drama today do take the time. I just remember how breathless "primetime drama" had become, just before Netflix and HBO consumed everything.

I have been vocal about finding a lot of Dallas repetitious and plodding because the plots would generally default to J.R. vs. all these other fools in his life. But the actors all worked hard. I do think it would merit a strong revival, but I would make it short and smaller scale. The problem is whether or not it's a 1:1 match, Taylor Sheridan has kind of cornered that entire space with Yellowstone and its umpteenth spinoffs and clones (The Ranch, Landman, etc.) that all deal with family, the heartland, oil or ranching. And without Larry Hagman you have lost a major draw. Everyone would be wondering if it's another Sheridan show (and no, I haven't watched them).

From the bits I've watched (not a ton), Taylor Sheridan reminds me more of Falcon Crest, just because those shows obsess over the land, the land, the land, even if they are much more male-dominated. Characters take a backseat.

Dallas was all about the high-profile caricatures - that's what sold the show around the world. I was watching some Kenny Everett parodies of Dallas. They weren't very good, but they were a window into what the British audience saw the show as being. Evil JR, pathetic melodramatic Sue Ellen, Pamela and her bosom, etc.

I think that's what would hurt a revival most. Everything is so dreary now. Even shows we hear breathless hype about being current and today, like Euphoria, actually have a lineup that is deadly dull, underneath all the Sam Levinson preening.

Edited 22 hours ago22 hr by DRW50

Nashville was another show that dealt in super quick scenes. They went through too much story too soon. It was like the whole writing process was at the mercy of someone pressing the channel change on the remote.

Just now, Paul Raven said:

Nashville was another show that dealt in super quick scenes. They went through too much story too soon. It was like the whole writing process was at the mercy of someone pressing the channel change on the remote.

Same era too, IIRC. Not a coincidence.

17 hours ago, SoapDope78 said:

Imagine as an actor in the middle of a scene and nailing it then they have to cut because of all that juvenile crap and having to reshoot and work long hours.

I know it would drive me nuts, lol!

I'll never forget reading in Ann Marcus' memoir, "Whistling Girl," how the KL cast was already pulling similar antics by S3, goofing around during script readings, until Julie Harris showed up for work. Then, Marcus wrote, the rest of the cast would knock it off and start behaving more professionally.

15 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I was going to lambaste Cidre for killing Pam until I saw that they had already given her a terminal illness near the end of the original show. What a stupid, pointless decision.

How Leonard Katzman chose to handle VP's exit was just...sigh...I can't describe it, lol.

I mean, why go to the trouble of recasting Pam (with the explanation that she was disfigured in that accident) when you don't plan to bring her back permanently? And then you cover your ass there by revealing she has terminal cancer and doesn't want to be a burden on her loved ones? HUH?? Why didn't you just have her die instantly at the scene, or later at the hospital? Why put Bobby (and us) through all that other crap?

Like I said, I can't describe it, lol.

15 hours ago, Vee said:

I think the bigger issue is that by the 2010s, the pacing of most primetime dramas [...] had wildly changed.

I agree. TPTB got it in their heads that attention spans had shortened and that viewers were no longer as patient when it came to telling a story as they had been. (IDK whether their assessment was correct, though. I think viewers will always be patient with a story that rewards them for being smart and doesn't bore the crap out of them.)

15 hours ago, kalbir said:

So your timeline has tanking starting with Jenna trial

I would say so - if not shortly before then. Of course, like @Vee , I, too, found a lot of DALLAS "repetitious and plodding," but I'm also someone who thinks the show peaked with the Mickey Trotter storyline.

14 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Everything is so dreary now.

AMEN. That's why I keep watching KL: to remind myself when a TV show wasn't afraid to entertain its' audience.

Dallas made so many mistakes in their writing and handling of characters. Victoria was smart to leave a sinking ship. The show is pretty much unwatchable to me after her departure.

Unpopular opinion, but I actually thought the Pam departure was in character for Pam. One the surface, Pam was a fiesty individual... but she also had a tendency to bolt when things got too tough.

And it was irony that Pam did the same thing to Christopher that her mother did to her, it just happened during a time where character studies were at an all time low so we didn't get to see it shown on screen.

I think had Patrick Duffy not opted to quit at the end of the 1984 to 1985 season, I think the ratings would have continued to slide at a gradual rate. The show had utilized everything it could from the dynamics already presented, and that killing Bobby off at the end of the season was pretty gutsy and could have truly reset the dynamics of the show and renewed interest in the show.

Problem was that the show inherited new show-runners that tried to make Dallas into a weird Knots Landing/Dynasty hybrid instead of continuing to show how the Ewings coped with the death of Bobby. Jock's death set up some interesting dynamics with Miss Ellie contesting the will, JR unleashing his true nature out in the open now that his daddy was died, and Bobby becoming even more enmeshed into the war.. which caused further issues with his marriage to Pam.

With Bobby died, we could have seen Pam grieving, learning the oil business, and truly becoming an adversary for JR while Sue Ellen's glow up after her hitting rock bottom could have resulted in Sue Ellen possibly getting divorced from JR a 2nd time and getting some shares of Ewing Oil with her possibly being a tie breaker for conflicts between Pam/JR... while Ray/Donna would have sides they would be forced to take as well as Miss Ellie... while this season would have been a good time to write off Jenna after she comes to grips with the fact that she was the fallback girl for Bobby.

4 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I think had Patrick Duffy not opted to quit at the end of the 1984 to 1985 season, I think the ratings would have continued to slide at a gradual rate. The show had utilized everything it could from the dynamics already presented, and that killing Bobby off at the end of the season was pretty gutsy and could have truly reset the dynamics of the show and renewed interest in the show.

I agree. Even gutsier, of course, would have been to kill off J.R., but we know that was never gonna happen, lol.