As many on here know, some of my favorite shows are the Herskovitz/Zwick domestic dramas. I really think they stand head and shoulders above nearly everything else in a similar style, despite in hindsight maybe having a few too cutesy or sentimental moments -- but even here those moments were usually handled more realistically than any similar scenes on network tv. It's true that the first handful of episodes of thirtysomething live up to the negative reviews it got complaining it was about a bunch of whining hippies, but it soon found its voice, and that voice was carried over to My So-Called Life and the underrated Once & Again (which perhaps started off a bit too much as a rom/com before breaking into something much more layered.) I'll add Jason Katims' Relativity to that list even if it's mostly forgotten and never was quite as good as the others. (There's a terrific AVClub article about My So-Called Life which gets into some of this, and how in the late 80s ABC was desperate for programming and so tried things, like Twin Peaks and thirtysomething other networks wouldn't touch which in their way led to the rise of cable programming ten years later http://www.avclub.com/article/my-socalled-life-set-the-path-all-teen-shows-would-107274 )

(It's too bad Relativity and especially season 3 of Once & Again seem unlikely to EVER get a DVD release -- where's Shout Factory--they picked up MSCL and thirtysomething which both sell very well for them, and while neither made the cultural impact of those shows, I think they would sell better than some of the obscure TV Shout has...)

Hell, I even liked 1/4 Life, their webseries which was plagued with a gimmicky format and infamously aired one episode on NBC -- it's too bad that the original TV pilot, whose script has leaked and was MUCH better, never aired, and that it came before quality online programming was a real option. (Incidentally I realized why Austine's cute boyfriend on Looking seemed so familiar--he was on 1/4 Life.) I wish their pilot from a few eyars back had been picked up, or at least leaked. Katims' carries over some of the feel of their shows on Parenthood, but I don't think it's quite as good.

ANYWAY, excuse that preamble... Herskovitz/Zwick met and got their start working on Family, coming in during the second season. The show had a LOT of writers, some who would become well known--Thom Racina wrote an episode as did some other soap writers, and Cowen and Lipman wrote one too--who went on to create Sisters and of course my much loathed US Queer as Folk. Richard Kramer also wrote several, he went on to create the groundbreaking gay storyline on thirtysomething and be a writer and consultant on MSCL and O&A as well as being personally chosen by Armistad Maupin to script the first, and best, Tales of the City off the strength of his thirtysomething work -- he also wrote for QAF, something he has since said he hated.

So, I've always been really curious to see Family (Kirstie McNicholl's "Buddy" was also an influence on Angela on MSCL, Winnie Holzman has said.) The DVDs for the first two seasons have been out of print, and are expensive, but a few weeks back I found a new copy in a store for $10.

It's fascinating to see, and I'm mostly really impressed. It's not nearly as subtle as Herskovitz/Zwick got, and is a bit more self contained (though it is lightly serialized) but considering Aaron Spelling was one of the EPs, and it's from 1976, it's pretty amazing. Granted Mike Nicholls was also an EP, it had great writers (I wonder if writing rooms worked differently then--with so may writers it's a miracle they kept the tone yet there doesn't seem to have been a headwriter, Jay Allen left after the first episode) and was created by Jay Presson Allen, a great screenwriter (though there's some controversy about its creation.)

It suffers from the "issues" often being self contained "Very Special Episodes," something Herskovitz/Zwick later were able to integrate more subtly, but the dialogue is often surprisingly intelligent, and the chore actors are all *great.* (Whatever happened to the guy who played Willie?) The directing too. It holds up better than most shows I can think of from that era, and must have really been a strange show on the TV schedules at the time. I mean there was the Waltons, but Family is far less pedantic and while I assume it's aimed at families, what with all the generations on screen, they talk realistically about affairs, the grown parents having sex, abortion, etc. I was also surprised that Meredith Baxter was not there in the first 6 episode season... Nancy was played by a different actress. I wonder what caused the change (the first Nancy was fine but Meredith made the role, anyway.)

Are there fans here? I've gone through all 28 episodes very quickly, and am annoyed that it seems impossible to find anything from the three later seasons online (and a DVD release seems unlikely...) I would love to see this rerun on a station like MeTV instead of Love Boat...

One thing I find appealing, I admit, is a nostalgia factor. I wasn't born until 1980, when the show ended, and I get the feeling it wasn't rerun much, so I never saw it, but still the way people dressed, the way their houses looked inside, etc, all reminds me of my childhood. Which made me think that the show ALSO reminds me a lot of the early seasons of Knotts Landing. And go figure, David Jacobs was one of the most prominent writers on the show until he left to make Knotts. I think it's better than early Knotts (and I admit, while I like early Knotts, I really get into the show when it becomes more soapy in season 3) but they definitely have a very similar feel.

Anyway, since this is a long thread I thought I'd add the other 70s drama I've finally tracked down and found, which is James at 15 (midway through changed to James at 16.) I first heard about this show when, in an interview, Kevin Williamson said that it was a big influence on Dawson's Creek, and I knew it was considered one of the few smart teen shows at the time, and for a long time, and was controversial for its subject matter. And then of course I found out it was created and headwritten by Dan Wakefield. Dan, of course, wrote my bible, All Her Children about his love of the soap He also initially was co-creator of Loving before he decided the writing pace was too much for him, and wrote the *great* novels Going All The Way and Starting Over which were both made into very good movies (particularly Starting Over, James L Brooks' first movie.)

Anyway, I hadn't looked online in a while, and apparently a DVD release for a cult show with huge music rights issues isn't going to happen, but someone in the past year uploaded to youtube all 20 episodes plus the two hour pilot movie. So I've been making my way through it. I don't like it as much as Family, but is really strong, again, especially considering when it was made. Apparently due to network issues, Dan Wakefield left a few months before it was canceled, as did a producer, but I'm not there yet. Anyone remember or watch this show?

And the guy who uploaded James at 15 also has all of the Family episodes from the DVD for anyone curious (unfortunately none of the later ones...)

Here's James:

And the first legit episode:

And here's the pilot of Family:

And an interesting season 2 episode with Willie's best friend being found in a gay bar. For a 1976 network show, the way they handle homosexuality seems awfully progressive -- even compared to more famous examples like All In the Family, etc, which usually amounted just to some random character being revealed to be gay at the end and a lesson is learned. Of course this gay character (the "best friend") is, I don't think, ever seen again which is typical, but even so... There is some weird shoe-horned in philosophy ("Sure dad I read the books you gave us, i know that teen boys get crushes on each other, but most outgrow it," etc) but still pretty interesting.

Thanks for sharing those. I will have to watch soon.

Did you ever watch Twin Peaks?

A few things about "Family". The show was absolutely beautiful, including the theme music. And the cast, led by Sada Thompson, was stellar. The cast was truly perfection after Meredith Baxter Birney joined. Elayne Heilveil (who is now a playwright) was the original Nancy. From what I read, Cheryl Ladd was the first choice to play Nancy after Heilveil was axed.

And no, it was not a strange show on the TV schedules at the time. This was a period when the networks, in many ways led by ABC, featured outstanding, well-written series and mini-series -- Roots, Rich Man, Poor Man, Barney Miller, Little House, The Waltons, Gibbsville, How the West was Won, Lou Grant, among them. And, yes, the series was rerun in syndication after it ended. Back then, things were a bit different with syndication. Shows only aired in syndication for a few years after a series went off the air.

As for James at 15/16, I watched it a few times but didn't care for it, mainly because I didn't care for Lance Kerwin. There was much ado back then because of the episode where James lost his virginity. And while shows like Family and James at 15/16 did do "very special episodes," I don't recall them being billed as such...that came along in the late 70s/early 80s, I believe. And don't recall them being that frequent. Episodic series back then would often feature stories about characters who would pop up in one episode and then disappear, never to be seen again. Little House and The Waltons did that all the time and it worked quite well.

Thanks for sharing those. I will have to watch soon.

Did you ever watch Twin Peaks?

You should, I'd be interested in your take, Carl.

Of course I watched TP Haven't we discussed it? I actually watched it when it aired and I was 10 (my dad was a big fan so I'd watch with him, though my mom had a hard time and really thought I shouldn't be watching it.) I watched it later when it re-aired on Canadian Bravo's TV Too Good For TV (which in the late 90s reran a lot of great shows) and then again recently when the Gold Box came out. Why do you ask?

Mostly because I couldn't remember - I talked about it quite a bit in status updates that had a dozen people but wasn't sure who was who, because we don't post in a lot of the same threads in recent times.

Anyway, if I ever start a thread on the show I hope we can talk more about it there. I have a few articles I wanted to post anyway.

The weirdest part of the 70s dramas is how some were just pure escapist trash and others were straight up social issues and political statements. The two started to blur together in the 80s.

A few things about "Family". The show was absolutely beautiful, including the theme music. And the cast, led by Sada Thompson, was stellar. The cast was truly perfection after Meredith Baxter Birney joined. Elayne Heilveil (who is now a playwright) was the original Nancy. From what I read, Cheryl Ladd was the first choice to play Nancy after Heilveil was axed.

And no, it was not a strange show on the TV schedules at the time. This was a period when the networks, in many ways led by ABC, featured outstanding, well-written series and mini-series -- Roots, Rich Man, Poor Man, Barney Miller, Little House, The Waltons, Gibbsville, How the West was Won, Lou Grant, among them. And, yes, the series was rerun in syndication after it ended. Back then, things were a bit different with syndication. Shows only aired in syndication for a few years after a series went off the air.

As for James at 15/16, I watched it a few times but didn't care for it, mainly because I didn't care for Lance Kerwin. There was much ado back then because of the episode where James lost his virginity. And while shows like Family and James at 15/16 did do "very special episodes," I don't recall them being billed as such...that came along in the late 70s/early 80s, I believe. And don't recall them being that frequent. Episodic series back then would often feature stories about characters who would pop up in one episode and then disappear, never to be seen again. Little House and The Waltons did that all the time and it worked quite well.

Hey thanks for your thoughts.

I admit, I don't particularly like Lance, either. And no, you're right of course. I just meant that they feel a *bit* like Very Special Episodes, but they were never advertised like that until the mid 80s really, I don't think. (I can remember later with Blossom and a rape themed episode, the commercials even specifically said "A very special episode.")

You're right that dramas back then *always* had characters who would pop up and never be heard from again, I know the phenomenon well. I guess I just meant that later on with shows like thirtysomething they did, what to me is more interesting, and had such characters usually mesh more with the overall fabric.

I forgot about many of the shows you mentioned, and you're right. Still, Family seems to be one of the few such series that was based around a domestic situation (ie a family, lol) and wasn't a period piece.

And then of course I found out it was created and headwritten by Dan Wakefield. Dan, of course, wrote my bible, All Her Children about his love of the soap He also initially was co-creator of Loving before he decided the writing pace was too much for him, and wrote the *great* novels Going All The Way and Starting Over which were both made into very good movies (particularly Starting Over, James L Brooks' first movie.)

I read this thread for the sole purpose of seeing if you would mention him.