GH: Classic Thread

[Vee]

Stefan was still there. He was one of the dozens of characters wandering the underground corridors mumbling about the danger during Endgame. He left almost immediately after in late '01 (I think) with a reasonably happy ending to find a new life for himself away from all the Cassadine games, and had a happy goodbye with Nikolas, Alexis, etc.

The show changes creative hands in spring-summer '02 as McTavish is fired, JFP is taken out of creative control and Guza returns with Pratt sporting an EP credit (which, as Megan herself said, ensured JFP could not control him after his wars with Riche). Guza then brought SN back opposite the also-returning Tyler Christopher in spring '03 to renew the Cassadine intrigues and sort of reinvigorate that sphere - a good idea I thought, but it quickly fell apart as Stefan became a cartoon villain and was dead before the end of the year. (I blame Pratt plotting on some of that - it got very primetime.)

I don't remember Tony ever claiming Luke was sleeping around during the marriage until after the unfortunate '05 'reunion' none of us liked (nor apparently did Tony and Genie). Even that year he held LNL very sacred in press.

I put it on Brian Frons much more than JFP (though JFP supporting that position would be no surprise). JFP had been largely disempowered at that point and if Frons had felt Vanessa was worth it she'd have stayed. He was that involved at ABCD at that time, based on all stories especially what has come out about AMC since. He didn't (IMO) because she wasn't a man.

Edited March 19 by Vee

[titan1978]

At one point he actually did get Laura. His first year was pretty much her more in character to what she was before than Labine was. He loved her idea of having been gone long enough to have a child, and ran with that to reintroduce the Cassadines. And Stefan and Laura had heat in that initial story. When he came back in ‘98, Michael Logan asked him about Laura and Guza said he was basically willing to beg her to return. And wrote a huge event around it when she finally did agree. When he and Pratt arrived the first thing they did was write a big story for Laura (awful as it was going to be and ended up being).

Now that we know more inside info about Stuart Damon’s firing and other bits from that time, I am not sure Guza was the problem when it came to wanting to write for Laura. I think we have Frons being youth obsessed and JFP being basically a horrible EP more to blame.

I think the show did them both a disservice by dragging out their separation for several years. I just think you don’t divorce the couple that had the highest ratings in daytime history for their wedding. There is marquee value there. Split them up, even affairs I could stomach. But you just don’t divorce characters like Luke and Laura.

Everything kind of falls apart after Lucky died as far as writing for both of them. They didn’t want to reunite them yet, so we got the Felicia affair, etc. The perfect reset would have been when they went to find Lucky they should have reunited then, and then you add in the conflict again with Lucky being not quite right when they get home. When Laura learns Lucky was alive, and slapped Stefan, that was the moment, and they didn’t take it. We had like another year of Laura just existing without a point. There was a moment when I thought they might make her an alcoholic after the affair is revealed in court but that didn’t happen either.

[carolineg]

It's been so long but I think Vanessa just calls out ABC daytime in general for not meeting her needs with a young child so that could be the case.  I think JFP was really the one making most of the public statements about it and it came off canned and cold so she might just get the de facto blame.  I don't specifically remember Vanessa ever saying Jill's name and just using broader terms for her departure.   History leads me to believe Jill didn't fight for her at the very least lol.

Amber is the only one I can recall making it obvious JFP was the issue.  I think Sarah even said there was no problem with her and Jill when she left although we learned later that wasn't the case.

[Vee]

The story about Jill and Sarah having a screaming match came out when she first left, so I never bought her claiming otherwise. I thought she was just being politically savvy at the time.

I don't think the divorce itself finally went through until JFP and Megan were there. I remember the soppy montage over it IIRC, which was amateur night by GH's prior Guza/Labine/Riche standards at that time. I think Jill went so far as to tease Laura with poor jilted Mac briefly which, give me a break. I always thought actually signing the papers was a terrible mistake too.

I have to assume the reason they didn't pull the trigger on putting LNL back together in 2000 - the obvious point, as you said - is either because Tony and Genie were dragging their feet, because of the BTS turmoil with Riche and Guza or both. I fully expected the reunion then. By the time Megan and Jill hastily did it, scurrying to keep their jobs in early '02, it was cartoonish and comical (Sally Struthers, etc.) with none of a fraction of the depth of the Riche regime. I wanted them back together but didn't buy the material.

Edited March 19 by Vee

[titan1978]

IIRC, their credit was Associate Producers or Producers and Head Writers. It was both so Pratt and Guza were equals (Pratt wasn’t going to just be a HW), and it gave them more control over the writing after what happened with Riche. But they were not Executive Producers. When Pratt came to Y&R they were both interviewed about his EP credit, and they danced around it not diminishing Jill, even though it did. I have no doubt JFP lost power at GH, it shows. But I don’t think she was completely powerless as stated.

I know Guza was gone for a period of time due to a family loss and was still credited as though he was still there. Like gone for months. Maybe that was when the Stefan cartoon villain stuff started, which did feel 100% Pratt.

With her track record with women and their family desires I have a hard time not thinking she was involved somewhere.

[Vee]

I did not know that. '03 got pretty ridiculous.

I think Jill had power as a line producer and in terms of getting her hand in re: certain elements of production or even advocating for people (like Vanessa), but creatively I saw zero evidence of her major hand again on story or any serious casting until the strike in '08, when suddenly the show turned into mid-90s GL starring Rick Hearst. That's just me though.

Edited March 19 by Vee

[DRW50]

Thanks. I remember some fans saying they thought Tyler Christopher kind of checked out after the awful treatment of Stefan/Stephen.

I have vague memories of Luke in the late '90s suggesting he'd been with other women (and maybe Tammy [not counting the sex they had when he and Laura were separated]), but maybe I am mixing that up with later rewrites.

[titan1978]

The Mac/Laura teases started getting serious during MVJ’s short HW stint, when Laura and Carly owned Deception. I think they were even trapped together on the roof by Carly at some kind of reception? My memory is fuzzy about the show around then. But yes, the actual papers being signed were JFP/Megan.

 

[Vee]

Fair enough, that whole period is a bit of a fog for me. Regardless, they did play it under JFP a bit too and I always found it embarrassing. (Not dissimilar to Mac and Alexis, and I say that as someone who loves Mac but there is a tier he can play in - now Labine leading man Mac, I might've bought it.)

[titan1978]

I believe he had a child that passed away. I just don’t know exactly when it happened as he is very private and it wasn’t widely known. I read it after he was fired and it lined up with how that Pratt era seemed balanced between their styles at the beginning and the end, but there was a section there where the show felt very much Pratt only. And I think that was when Guza was gone.

[carolineg]

You have so much good insight about Luke/Laura.  I tend to feel like she was more sidelined than she was during the early Guza years because my strongest memories are more Luke based due to the fact he was prominent in the Sonny/Brenda story.  

Absolutely.  I remember SOD reporting and Sarah was like lol everyone loves everyone here.  Which was the right move at the time.

2003 was awful-fell apart by March.  I always chalked it up to Guza having an entire Brenda/Jason/Sonny saga planned out.  I had no idea he left for personal reasons.  

[titan1978]

One thing about Tony and Genie both- they often generate chemistry with their scene partners. Not just romantic chemistry. Both of them had great scenes with Tony Jones often. Genie had some sparks with Mac, Roy, and serious heat with Stefan in the early part of the story. Tony was possibly NLG’s best scene partner, and he had real chemistry with Helena. They both worked really well with JJ, Tyler, and JMB. Jackie. Sonny. The list goes on.

[Vee]

All true. I badly wanted Luke and Alexis together for a bit in the late '90s.

[carolineg]

I remember them being trapped on a roof for what seemed like days arguing over Gia vs. Liz as the Face of Deception.  Which both Carly/Laura were above.  I don't remember Mac/Laura teases but I think Mac got shopped around to everyone.  I think we all recall the years we were supposed to pretend Mac and Alexis could be a thing.

[titan1978]

IIRC, they had some clear chemistry testing going on then, including the cliche of Mac giving a freezing Laura his jacket and trying to warm her when they were stuck on the roof. Then he was just standing there when Laura lights into Carly, and even asks Sonny to control her and he sides with Carly, which causes Laura to basically erupt on them both. It was a terrible idea to put those two characters against each other that way, especially with Gia and Liz in that silly storyline.

Genie did too. In her exit interview in 2002 she said they should pair him with Alexis because that would make Tony happy and she was fantastic and they worked well together.

I am not certain if that was when the leave happened. It just fits what was happening onscreen as being so unlike Guza. But it may have been at another time period. When I learned this it was alluded to that it happened during the Pratt period of time, not when he was solo again.

That makes sense. I don’t remember Brenda ever having real scenes with Laura, and Vanessa loved both of them. She and Maurice were both intimidated to work with them because they were fans from back in the day. Vanessa even has a photo with her and Tony at a fan event when she was  a preteen.

I am not quite as big a Genie fan as you are a Vanessa fan. But I think Tony and Genie are important to the genre, and Luke and Laura are very important characters to the show. So I invest in them. Especially when they came back and the entire show was just excellent. I think they fit in any era after their debut. I can’t imagine Robert working as well in Riche’s grounded era for example. I don’t think Anna (who was my all time favorite GH character for a long time) works as seamlessly either. But Luke and Laura work because they have both grounded foundations and then the larger than life quality. They can save the world from freezing by the Cassadines or break your heart in a grounded human story about loss.

Edited March 19 by titan1978