Thanks @Vee for the confirmation about Heather/Edward. I have some vague memory of the lights being out at the mansion and her claiming to be possessed (by Lila...?), but maybe I'm reaching even further.

Based on the coarse tone of Pratt's AMC run I'm happy to blame him for this period.

The odd thing with Sandra Ferguson is she never even worked with JFP, IIRC, and she had a rough history (allegedly) with an FOJ, so she must have just been known to some casting person and was easy to hire. I remember wanting to give her a chance and tuning in to see her at a time when Kristina should have been there (I think when Maxie's heart was going out again or something). I'm not surprised she didn't last long.

This "comedy" episode is all Frons, right? I think AMC had one around the same time.

 

Edited January 18Jan 18 by DRW50

Just now, DRW50 said:

This "comedy" episode is all Frons, right? I think AMC had one around the same time.

 

It is right after Frons took over the network and shifted the show hard to focus on Courtney, yes. The Guza team had her with A.J. up to that point and had just promoted a Jason/Liz/Zander triangle. That went away with the advent of Frons, who was Alicia Leigh Willis' biggest booster. Once Kelly Monaco, a bigger fish, came to GH and drew Frons' attention, Guza was able to marginalize the character he disliked (pairing her in a B/C story with Jax, then a deliberately degrading affair with Nikolas which does have shades of Willow/Drew though I think the current story is less overtly malicious) before finally killing her off.

And yes, Heather did claim to be possessed by Lila lol. So bad.

1 minute ago, Vee said:

It is right after Frons took over the network and shifted the show hard to focus on Courtney, yes. The Guza team had her with A.J. up to that point and had just promoted a Jason/Liz/Zander triangle. That went away with the advent of Frons, who was Alicia Leigh Willis' biggest booster. Once Kelly Monaco, a bigger fish, came to GH and drew Frons' attention, Guza was able to marginalize the character he disliked (pairing her in a B/C story with Jax, then a deliberately degrading affair with Nikolas which does have shades of Willow/Drew though I think the current story is less overtly malicious) before finally killing her off.

And yes, Heather did claim to be possessed by Lila lol. So bad.

Thanks.

Jason/Liz/Zander would have made much more sense, even if it would have been very one-sided.

4 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The odd thing with Sandra Ferguson is she never even worked with JFP, IIRC, and she had a rough history (allegedly) with an FOJ, so she must have just been known to some casting person and was easy to hire. I remember wanting to give her a chance and tuning in to see her at a time when Kristina should have been there (I think when Maxie's heart was going out again or something). I'm not surprised she didn't last long.

My mistake! I just see AW and see red when it comes to JFP after my OLTL years with half that cast, lol.

Interesting that Sandra had a rough history with RKK (right?) as Jill was the only person left in town who would hire him post-DAYS, both at AW and again at GH in 2001. I was shocked she got away with it then.

Kristina did return briefly for the Georgie's death period, as I said. I think that's when Felicia claimed she'd actually been off doing WSB missions with Frisco. She was supposedly determined to find the killer (Diego) but in true GH form re: these vets at that time I think she was gone again before that even happened. Then Kristina didn't come back again (for good) til Frank, Ron and 2012. The writing for her return and reconciliation with Maxie and Mac in '12 was very superficial and expository and had much less depth than any of the drama before, in part because they'd cut almost the entire longtime dialogue stuff except Korte. But I got to a point where I was just so happy to have her back and redeemed that I let it go. Plus Kristina gave her scenes with JJY everything, especially in 2013 when they brought Jack Wagner back for the anniversary, teased re-pairing them and it was very, very visibly difficult for her onscreen and hard to watch.

4 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Jason/Liz/Zander would have made much more sense, even if it would have been very one-sided.

It was part of one of those Enrique Iglesias promos that were so good from the summer in '02 (the best is still the OLTL one with Cristian and Natalie).

I didn't get putting Liz with Zander at all then or now, as he was written as basically the Jason substitute in that period and then became a spare part once Steve was back that spring. It was also about putting them both with available people when they were at loose ends, when it didn't make sense to me that they'd ever take an interest in each other. (Almost as random was the very minor subplot of Zander and the recast Gia then briefly having a fling.)

Guza and his team almost immediately set about tearing him down as a character when they returned in '02, even though they'd had a large hand in making him viable as a major young lead I liked a lot in 2000 before exiting - probably because with Steve back on contract they felt the need to tear him down. A triangle with Liz, Zander and Jason didn't make sense to me because it was Liz caught between two iterations of basically the same type of man. But she did have chemistry with both and hey, I liked the promo.

I'd still bring Zander back from the dead today if I could if only to briefly cause drama - Chad Brannon looked very, very good in his 'ghost' appearance to Cam a few years ago.

5 minutes ago, Vee said:

My mistake! I just see AW and see red when it comes to JFP after my OLTL years with half that cast, lol.

Interesting that Sandra had a rough history with RKK (right?) as Jill was the only person left in town who would hire him post-DAYS, both at AW and again at GH in 2001. I was shocked she got away with it then.

Kristina did return briefly for the Georgie's death period, as I said. I think that's when Felicia claimed she'd actually been off doing WSB missions with Frisco. She was supposedly determined to find the killer (Diego) but in true GH form re: these vets at that time I think she was gone again before that even happened. Then Kristina didn't come back again (for good) til Frank, Ron and 2012. The writing for her return and reconciliation with Maxie and Mac in '12 was very superficial and expository and had much less depth than any of the drama before, in part because they'd cut almost the entire longtime dialogue stuff except Korte. But I got to a point where I was just so happy to have her back and redeemed that I let it go. Plus Kristina gave her scenes with JJY everything, especially in 2013 when they brought Jack Wagner back for the anniversary, teased re-pairing them and it was very, very visibly difficult for her onscreen and hard to watch.

It was RKK, yes. 

I really loathed the funeral scenes back in the day. Watching them now I can appreciate the performances and visceral anger more, given the dead zone you often get with soap deaths in recent decades. I am glad they were able to turn things around for her. As you said the writing has generally been superficial, but Kristina is so likeable and direct in her work, she makes you care. Without that directness and her chemistry with JJY I'd have a hard time with Mac/Felicia after the Fluke disaster.

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

I really loathed the funeral scenes back in the day. Watching them now I can appreciate the performances and visceral anger more, given the dead zone you often get with soap deaths in recent decades. I am glad they were able to turn things around for her. As you said the writing has generally been superficial, but Kristina is so likeable and direct in her work, she makes you care. Without that directness and her chemistry with JJY I'd have a hard time with Mac/Felicia after the Fluke disaster.

I never thought I could root for her again after those years, and I didn't blame Maxie for being furious - I was, and I think most fans had been with Felicia for a long time. I think the scene at the funeral was also very well-written. But it was sad because you look at her in the early '90s with Mac and Robin, etc. and it was just so warm and Kristina was so good at all that slice of life stuff, and I think people wanted her back and rehabilitated and wanted it resolved. So by 2012 enough time had gone by that I was willing to just roll with it, even if the day to day writing had really degraded with the longtime staff (including MVJ) recently gone.

14 minutes ago, Vee said:

Guza and his team almost immediately set about tearing him down as a character when they returned in '02, even though they'd had a large hand in making him viable as a major young lead I liked a lot in 2000 before exiting - probably because with Steve back on contract they felt the need to tear him down. A triangle with Liz, Zander and Jason didn't make sense to me because it was Liz caught between two iterations of basically the same type of man. But she did have chemistry with both and hey, I liked the promo.

It's a good promo. I'm also reminded of how many times Liz has been in triangles that really weren't as something inevitably doesn't shake out (most recently Lucky and Ric being hung up on her but you know they aren't going for Liz/Ric again).

I wonder if Frons or others thought Brannon wasn't conventionally attractive enough. Either that or they were worried he might have fans and might take attention away from their important characters, similar to what happened with Alcazar. It's a shame as Zander is one of those characters who could have become much more vital to the canvas later on thanks to Cam, and with so many 'stars' leaving or becoming burnt out.

8 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I wonder if Frons or others thought Brannon wasn't conventionally attractive enough. Either that or they were worried he might have fans and might take attention away from their important characters, similar to what happened with Alcazar. It's a shame as Zander is one of those characters who could have become much more vital to the canvas later on thanks to Cam, and with so many 'stars' leaving or becoming burnt out.

I think he was just redundant of Jason. Zander had risen to a major role on the show while Steve was off in Hollywood, and in the much less restrained Guza II worldview in that era, with both influences like Frons and I think also less balance from Wendy Riche or others to keep Guza in check, that meant he had to be exterminated. We saw Jax and Alexis, characters Guza had previously loved and cared for, also being driven into the dust in the same period, among others. He bored of Tyler's Nikolas quickly too after bringing him back with great fanfare in '03.

I am spitballing as always and going on old gossip, but I don't think Frons is responsible for what happened with Zander or those others, or with Alcazar. I think putting down Alcazar was all Guza's team because Sonny and Jason still came first, and Carly and Lorenzo taking off was an organic audience response which they had not counted on going the distance. The hatred and contempt towards Carly from Jason, Michael, etc. onscreen in that period was visceral, abusive and hard to watch; it felt personal from Steve at that time, though I may be projecting. (They were rumored to have clashed with Tamara in late '03/'04, and I think she may have left under a cloud the following year.) For all I know Tamara, Steve, etc. get along great. But there were a lot of stories that they didn't in that period.

Of course, who knows. MVJ among others always maintained on social media that Guza wasn't at fault for certain key choices in those years (specifically killing Alan, and probably others). I just know I'm glad he's only her co-head and not the central creator on her show. He's a gifted plotter when he's not lazy but he needs a lot of checks.

Edited January 18Jan 18 by Vee

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

It was RKK, yes. 

I'm not sure why he has come up here & now. But, I saw mention of JFP "hiring" him at AW. Oddly, he was one actor who had a "Pay or Play" contract with NBC when he was playing Bo at DAYS. They let him go. NBC told Jill that she had to take him because they were not willing to pay him to sit at home. Allegedly Jill didn't want him. However, they sorta became friends. (You know how she is.) 

Edited January 18Jan 18 by Contessa Donatella
typo

4 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I'm not sure why he has come up here & now. But, I saw mention of JFP "hiring" him at AW. Oddly, he was one actor who had a "Pay or Play" contract with NBC when he was playing Bo at DAYS. They let him go. NBC told Jill that she had to take him because they were not willing to pay him to sit at home. Allegedly Jill didn't want him. However, they sorta became friends. (You know how she is.) 

Has this been confirmed? I ask because it's the production company who contracts and pays the actors, not the network. Sony/Corday would've had a contract with RKK for DAYS, and his AW contract would have been with P&G. The network licenses the shows to air them but doesn't pay for production. 

9 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I was so impressed with the clip @BetterForgotten posted in the GH thread for Tracy's 1993 exit. It may be the best exit I can remember from GH. I ended up going around and watching this scene from Tracy's 2003 return. It's fitting that Lila was key to both scenes, and that this was one of Anna Lee's last appearances. 

GH 04.17-18.03 - Tracy asks Lila to let her stay

On the one hand, at least the Quartermaines all have defined personalities here, unlike now, but you can feel how lacking in nuance and turn-based the writing has become by this point, as each person just walks up to hurl invective. I'm also reminded of how much less interesting a character John Ingle's Edward was compared to David Lewis, even if he did have some good moments - it's just that he wasn't suited to parts like this where you are reminded of the complex history Edward and Tracy shared.

I was watching some clips of Lila's death and memorial - a lot is not here (including one very memorable Tracy scene), but there are still some strong moments, like the eulogies from Tracy and Alan.

It's amazing how Jason-centered this is. Sometimes I forget how much the point of view did start to shift from him after Guza left. And I'd forgotten Steve still had more of the youthful looks when he first came back, before he began getting too big.

I had also forgotten just how many Quartermaines were around at this point (in spite of AJ being gone and "honorary" Q Skye not being there). Yet you can see in the big group moment in the living room how little use the show has for them - very sour writing and half-hearted energy and performances, especially from some like Natalia Livingston (I guess I did at least buy that she cared about the Quartermaines, on some level, unlike Amber's Emily) and whichever Justus this was.  

One consistency from then to now is Brook Lyn seemed more mature than Lois, but at least Brook Lyn still had some semblance of screen presence (no comment on the Vanessa Carlton songalike in the third clip I didn't link). I don't think Lesli Kay is bad, but she is so blatantly just imitating Rena Sofer. Even when I was never a big Lois fan, her return has reminded me how much more natural she is onscreen than anything Lois has going on here. In contrast, Jed Allan is better than I remembered, it's just hard to buy him in the material as he had just arrived. I think the worst with him started when Heather started pursuing him - was that a story or did I just make it up?

Something else I'd totally forgotten was how much they were trying to have Felicia repairing her relationship with her daughters and with Mac. What was it that led to this being dropped? Did JFP or Frons lowball Kristina Wagner?

Mac's nasty digs at the Quartermaines in their time of grief are startling. He doesn't even bother to give praise to people he was once closer to, like Alan and Monica (in spite of Alan being a rock for Robin). Another case of TPTB at the time letting their anger course through the characters.

 

My favourite scene is Jane Elliot (as Tracy) just crying out: "I WANT MY MOMMY!"

I had never heard of the actress Sandra Ferguson who was mentioned on previous page and above, so I had to google her.  I never watched Another World, ever, so the name was unfamiliar to me.  I see that she was a temporary Felicia on GH?  Interesting!  I don't think I ever saw anyone play Felicia except for Kristina W.

Edited January 18Jan 18 by janea4old

47 minutes ago, Michael said:

Has this been confirmed? I ask because it's the production company who contracts and pays the actors, not the network. Sony/Corday would've had a contract with RKK for DAYS, and his AW contract would have been with P&G. The network licenses the shows to air them but doesn't pay for production. 

Admittedly I do not know exactly how this came about, since I like you, would think that DAYS was first his employer and then later AW would have become his employer. What I have, and will post, is a copy of the article where RKK talked about this. So you will be able to see all that I am aware of being known about it. There is another article that at this moment, I cannot find. But this will at least establish the basics. However, I will say in advance that our curiosity may not be satisfied & I intend to continue looking for this other article.

1 hour ago, janea4old said:

I had never heard of the actress Sandra Ferguson who was mentioned on previous page and above, so I had to google her.  I never watched Another World, ever, so the name was unfamiliar to me.  I see that she was a temporary Felicia on GH?  Interesting!  I don't think I ever saw anyone play Felicia except for Kristina W.

Just for your reference, she also was called, at different times, Sandy & at one point at least the surname she used was Robinson. I am personally only aware of her playing Amanda Cory on AW at two different times,  in the 80s and then near the end of the show, so late 90s.

4 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Admittedly I do not know exactly how this came about, since I like you, would think that DAYS was first his employer and then later AW would have become his employer. What I have, and will post, is a copy of the article where RKK talked about this. So you will be able to see all that I am aware of being known about it. There is another article that at this moment, I cannot find. But this will at least establish the basics. However, I will say in advance that our curiosity may not be satisfied & I intend to continue looking for this other article.

Just for your reference, she also was called, at different times, Sandy & at one point at least the surname she used was Robinson. I am personally only aware of her playing Amanda Cory on AW at two different times,  in the 80s and then near the end of the show, so late 90s.

Thanks for finding that! From the way it's worded, it sounds like NBC might've "just" put pressure on JFP to bring him over to AW, rather than being contractually obligated to do so.

Sandra Ferguson/Robinson also did a stint on Sunset Beach as Jade (kind of a fun role), subbed for KKL as Brooke on B&B briefly, and had a deeply stupid role on Days in 2008-09 as a psychiatrist obsessed with John when he was regaining his memory after returning from the dead as "RoboJohn."

20 minutes ago, Michael said:

Thanks for finding that! From the way it's worded, it sounds like NBC might've "just" put pressure on JFP to bring him over to AW, rather than being contractually obligated to do so.

I thought about that as a possibility! We know, or I think we do, what kind of pressure can be applied. And we also know that Jill would always like to keep the suits happy if she could. You know that NBC and P&G took turns making decisions on EPs? Well, whether you did know or not, they did. I believe that Jill was an NBC hire. So that would make her even more vulnerable to pressure. At any rate, thanks for looking over the article & giving your impression!

20 minutes ago, Michael said:

Sandra Ferguson/Robinson also did a stint on Sunset Beach as Jade (kind of a fun role), subbed for KKL as Brooke on B&B briefly, and had a deeply stupid role on Days in 2008-09 as a psychiatrist obsessed with John when he was regaining his memory after returning from the dead as "RoboJohn."

Thanks for all of this info on Sandra.

I have never understood the nomenclature RoboJohn. When & why was he called this? I mean I get RoJohn from the time when he mistakenly thought he was Roman. But where does "bo" come in?