Do you think it was a mistake to have Paul's siblings gone for so many years, or was the mistake in giving him siblings at all?

Definitely a mistake.

But between Don getting insanely popular (in addition to Lester & Braeden) & the original Tori Spelling (LLB) the Williams never stood a chance.

Susan Seaforth only had a year or two of story on Y&R, Patty Weaver was mostly a supporting player after her first few years, and Margaret Mason only had story for a few brief strong periods. Or did he have more planned for Margaret but her health problems were an issue?

He never really had plans for them (except Mason). Susan was mainly used to make Lauren sympathetic (beginning her long redemption) & Patty was there to cause angst (initially) for Danny. She (Patty) a fair bit of story (as a supporting character) but was basically thrown under the bus for Giggly Heffa.

Were the plans for Mason/Eve fulfilled or did they have to cut it short? I don't know how long she was on the show up to the time she was written out after she tried to kill Victor and Nikki (did she just vanish or was there an exit) or if they had other plans which didn't happen, until her brief return for the Cole story.

Were the plans for Mason/Eve fulfilled or did they have to cut it short?

Neither.

Eve was originally supposed to cause problems in Stuart/Liz's marriage but Bill dropped that & used her (in a wise move) to cause angst for Victor/Julia/Nikki. It all worked out cause N/V/J got several years of healthy story from it & when Bill brought her (Eve) back for Cole it helped humanize him & semi redeem her.

Thanks. I wonder if he was going to have her with Stuart in a story like Linda and Bob Anderson had on DAYS.

I guess this was around the time they began writing Liz and Stuart out.

I wish more early 80's Y&R was available...there's a certain level of purity and beauty in everything and big emotions. The show is still very well-written and decently acted as the decade goes on but it also loses some of that luster, to me, under all the big hair and Dynasty-era gloss.

Like this early 80's scene:

video gone

Edited September 1, 201411 yr by DRW50

I guess this was around the time they began writing Liz and Stuart out.

Yep.

Mason's Eve was a better enemy for Bennett & MTS.

Julianna was way too nice (and Liz too realistic) to catfight & engage in camp.

there's a certain level of purity and beauty in everything and big emotions.

Pretty much. Y&R was like a mix of Ryan's Hope & Edge Of Night for a long time. Once the rest of Daytime became intent on being just like primetime soaps a lot of Y&R's interesting raw darkness was lost.

There's also a lot of earnestness - I think that's what I miss the most on soaps. Soaps are so ashamed of themselves. So it's all sneering, sick camp. You can see some of the old earnesntness in Brad Bell when he tries to do "issue" stories, but unfortunately the rest of B&B is just derivative and unfocused trash.

I also love this too - this has been posted a few times but I might as well again.

Do you think it was a mistake to have Paul's siblings gone for so many years, or was the mistake in giving him siblings at all?

I also wonder about some of the plans Bell had for actors he used on DAYS. Susan Seaforth only had a year or two of story on Y&R, Patty Weaver was mostly a supporting player after her first few years, and Margaret Mason only had story for a few brief strong periods. Or did he have more planned for Margaret but her health problems were an issue?

I always wondered about those things too. The Williams never really became a core family the way the Abbotts did. Steve was written out in 1981 and Patty in 1984, besides the mature age pregnancy story in 1980, Carl and Mary weren't front burner.

Does anyone know how much interaction the Williams had the with the Abbotts during the Patty/Jack marriage? considering all the drama with Patty and Jack. I have never really heard of any confrontations between Paul and Jack, which seems odd considering how protective Paul was of Patty.

With Margaret Mason, what health problems did she have? She was on the show on and off it seems, Sep 1980 - Jul 1981 then Oct 1982 to Jun 1983, then her short stints in 1984 and 1993. I know when she first came on she wanted money from Victor for her son, whom she claimed was Victor's. Then she got a job at the GC Chronicle and caused a bit of worry for Liz (I believe she lived with Jill at that time) Then she had a story with Derek Thurston, something about Victor's vasectomy and Julia's pregnancy. I don't think she brought the crazy until her second stint, when she poisoned and attempted to kill Victor and was eventually carted away to a mental institution. There are some great scenes on youtube of Nikki and Eve fighting after Victor's "death" and another of her final scene in 1983. Then she returned for the wedding in 1984 and her short stay in 1993.

What year did she have the eating disorder? I caught a glimpse of that at my grandmother's and I feel like it was around 1989. Victoria was still a little girl and Nikki excused herself during dinner and ran up to her room and scarfed down a sandwich she had kept in a drawer. I think this was around the time baby Nicholas choked on something in his crib but I tend to confuse that memory with The Boy in the Plastic Bubble.

Wow, I don't remember Nikki having an eating disorder, does anyone know about this. I do remember in 1987 when she was dying, but went into remission only to pretend to still be dying, there was an incident with a sandwich, that landed her in hospital with food poisoning or something like that.

Nikki never had an eating disorder.

The Williams were very much a core family & had quite a bit of interaction with The Abbotts. It wasn't until Patty left that they became total supporting characters.

Eve was a schemer, then psycho, then semi redeemed. She was an older version of General Hospital's Heather Webber.

Edited June 4, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

With Margaret Mason, what health problems did she have? She was on the show on and off it seems, Sep 1980 - Jul 1981 then Oct 1982 to Jun 1983, then her short stints in 1984 and 1993. I know when she first came on she wanted money from Victor for her son, whom she claimed was Victor's. Then she got a job at the GC Chronicle and caused a bit of worry for Liz (I believe she lived with Jill at that time) Then she had a story with Derek Thurston, something about Victor's vasectomy and Julia's pregnancy. I don't think she brought the crazy until her second stint, when she poisoned and attempted to kill Victor and was eventually carted away to a mental institution. There are some great scenes on youtube of Nikki and Eve fighting after Victor's "death" and another of her final scene in 1983. Then she returned for the wedding in 1984 and her short stay in 1993.

Margaret had a lot of heart problems. I'm not sure if she had them during her time at Y&R but before that she'd had open-heart surgery twice, I think. I think she also had had cancer in the 60's or 70's. She talked quite a bit about this in SOD in 1982. Very brave woman.

I was reading some of the best/worst of 1991 in SOD, and David Kimble was named Worst Villain. Basically this was for the plastic surgery storyline. They said it was ridiculous no one recognized him and that he worked out of his old office, and that aside from the ending, the story lacked punch.

Do you think that's true?

Other awards that year were for most overexposed heroine (Nikki), most underused character (Paul, Y&R), best constructed show, and probably a few I forgot.

I was reading some of the best/worst of 1991 in SOD, and David Kimble was named Worst Villain. Basically this was for the plastic surgery storyline. They said it was ridiculous no one recognized him and that he worked out of his old office, and that aside from the ending, the story lacked punch.

Do you think that's true?

Other awards that year were for most overexposed heroine (Nikki), most underused character (Paul, Y&R), best constructed show, and probably a few I forgot.

I was only 10 around the time David tried to kill Nina and Co. It was pretty scary at the time, though some elements I found laughable, even as a 10 year old. Some of the ways David dreamed of killing people were a bit cartoonish. Being more critical now, I would say that his return didn't live up to the climax of his story with Nina when she found out about everything and shot him. There wasn't as much tension, it was more action than suspense. Even the costume ball where everyone got "shot" was a bit of a let down. David was a bit over the top as far as villains go, but he still scared the crap out of me 20 years ago.

Bill Bell's 'suspense' stories were often not very well structured .He was no Henry Slesar in that regard.

Shawn/Lauren

Who Shot Victor?

Joshua/Veronica

George Rawlins/Cassie mystery

I wonder what the reaction was to Who Shot Jill?

I wonder what the reaction was to Who Shot Jill?

Not having seen that when it aired, I can't say personally, but from what I understand the lead up and shooting were applauded, but the ending was a complete let down, an anti-climax. I will look through some SOD issues from 1986 and see if I can find something about it.

It seems Bill Bell was more interested in character development and a lot of these mysteries were more focused on the characters, most of the stories Paul Raven mentioned were by the numbers or just very simple whodunnit mysteries. I will say the Cassandra Rawlins story had its moments of tension and suspense. Bell's forte was relationships and issues oriented stories, ones that developed a character.

Most of the stories mentioned, including Jill's shooting, had ramifications for a number of characters, some that went on for years after the original story ended. Bell was very good at having one story affect many others.