Actor and Actress to leave Y&R?

[DRW50]

None of this ever went anywhere. Jack caused problems for years. Billy's magazine caused a few people to get upset for about a week. Billy's mixing usually amounts to baring his teeth at random male characters -- remember when he did this with Phillip, Cane, Chance, Adam, Nick...did any of that amount to any storyline?

Remember the story where Jack slept with Jill while she was married to John? The ramifications went on for over a year.

When Billy slept with Jack's wife, the story was over within about two months, and there was zero fallout, other than Billy Miller making faces in an unconvincing scene with Jack.

Billy can't be like Jill because Billy has zero motivation. Billy can't be like Jack because Billy has no drive and has no believable connection to any family members. Billy's entire history on the show was rewritten when Miller arrived, with the show now claiming that Billy barely has any ties to the Abbotts and barely knew John. That seriously limits any storylines. So does Sheffer's inability to write friendships, romances, or family relationships. That means Miller has zero connection with any love interest or anyone in the Abbott family, and his scenes with them come across as shallow and pointless.

That's another gimmick. The show claimed he developed because their other ideas for him failed. Lily was supposed to make him more mature. Chloe was supposed to make him more mature. Mac was supposed to make him more mature. Now it's Victoria.

The character still comes across as a deadbeat who barely cares about anyone and sees everything in the most shallow terms. They just try to say oh, isn't it adorable, look, he's chasing Victoria out of a room. This is just another variation of the same stories they have always given Billy Miller. Isn't it cute when he gets drunk. Isn't it cute when he sleeps with random women. Now that is being phased out because they want to see him bare his teeth at Victor. As soon as they get bored with that, he will go back to another great love of his life while nailing extras in a back alley.

I think Kevin is judgmental and sour. Like most on Sheffer shows.

[Saving ATWT]

You and I like a different styles of sopa writing and see characterization differently. I hate idealism in writing, the My Fair Lady treatment. In the 1980's, Bell pulled it off with Nikki because she was young and under Victor's spell. Minus her love of Victor, I see her as the same stripper she always was. Billy is a fairly realistic character in that most people never really change and fairly small improvments are great. Jack and Jill/Billy and Sharron are very different types of stories and can't be compared. Firstly, there is something creapy about sleeping with your father's wife. The action is taboo. It strikes unique cord in Westen Literature. While taking your brother's wife isn't kind, there are historial examples (granted, the brother is usually dead), plus Sharron had some serious mental issues. Maybe the experience with Jill tempered Jack's reaction? He would have been a hyprcrite if it had not.

Also, Billy is the youngest Abbot--the only child who is not the product of John and Dena's marriage. It would be somewhat natural for him to have a lesser attachment to the Abbot family, him being the byproduct of John's second family. Furthermore, I hate the idealize notion of family ties being so close. Would it be so unrealistic or wrong for him not to feel overly close to Ash, Tracy or Jack? The writers have given Abby the same treatment in regards to NMick and Victoria and I do not see this as a mistake or lazy writing. In both cases, there are large age differences between the siblings and neven reasons for anger and rancor. It is rare for half-siblings who are part of 'merged' families to be overly close.

Is there anything wrong with a shallow character if the writers want the character to be/or become shallow? Anti-heros foget lessons learned and are doomed to repeat them. Whiel Billy isn't overly ambitious, it is a streach to call him lazy. He runs a mag, parents a child and maintains a marriage.

As for Kevin, I like his sardonic and jaded viewpoint. Considering the characters history, anything less would come off as fake and sentimental. Please, having Gloria for a mother is enough to make any son sour. In real life, few people are as kind as Tracy. We will all meet many more people like Jack, Gloria, Kevin, Cloe, Jill, Dena, Ryder, Billy and even Adam. I like that Y&R is no longer a fairy tale. I give Hogan credit for developing realistic characters. People often complain that today's soaps degrade women, are violent, lack justice, and fail to depict positive role models. I do not dispute any of these claims. I agree and am sort of glad that soaps today have become realistic, are like mirrors in which we see larger than life examples of the ills that ravage our society.

[DeeeDee]

+1.

[DeeeDee]

No it wouldn't.

But it doesn't matter "idealism" is the new buzzword for conveniently ignoring Y&R's existing history & anything remotely character driven for the sake of propping inane agendas & plots.

[lovely_m]

Let me get this straight,

Micheal who covers up his families' crimes and acts like he has the higher ground in morality is a nice guy.

Kevin who just last year or 2 ago gaslight Kay is a nice guy.

Cane who took advantage of 2 women's grief so he can have a family is a nice guy.

But JT is not a nice guy because of something he did 8 years ago?

[Dr Neil Curtis]

Y&R has made many mistakes along the way. Eden Rigel should have been Mac instead of Heather, an actress like Christie Clark or Melissa Reeves should have been Heather. Thad shouldn't be leaving and Adrienne Leon should have been brought back as Colleen and Traci should be on full-time. Heather Tom, Gina T., Wendy Moniz should be Victoria.

Where are the writers from the 80's & 90's of Y&R. I try to watch, but I haven't been full time since Arthur Hendricks was in town.

[DeeeDee]

Eden Riegel is, was & always will be totally wrong for Mackenzie.

If Maria HAD to shoehorn her onto the show it should've been as a new character.

+1.

[DRW50]

Billy radically changed from anything he ever was before Billy Miller arrived.

There was no second family for the Abbotts in the way that you mean. I don't ever remember any of John's children resenting Billy. They were all close to him and he was close to them. Even if he hadn't been, he was very close to John, who raised him from birth to his late teens. Yet in the new Y&R history, Billy barely knows who John was. He has such contempt for him that he berates him in some stupid dream sequence and calls him by his first name, not by "Dad."

As for it being great to create shallow characters, the problem is Hogan does not see this as shallow. He sees it as how a real man behaves.

I think we are more likely to meet the Easter Bunny than these people. Being a sociopath doesn't make you realistic.

[Saving ATWT]

I think the Abbot family 'embrace' of Billy was pretty unrealistic. Jill was a gold digger back in the day and most siblings would never have been so kind. Billy's birth did cheat them out of money. Also, I don't think the writers are trying to distance John and Billy considering how often he comes to Billy in drunken dreams. John is used to represent Billy's conscience, his better instict; thus, it is only logical that Billy would get snarky and snotty. Don't see why it is a big deal that Billy calls him John as opposed to dad.

Billy, Gloria, Kevin nd all the rest are exaggerated/ over the top shades of gray. Tv wouldn't be very interesting with 'normal' people living average life so soap writers magnify character and situation. I call these characters realistic because most people are shades of gray as opposed to the standard good/bad breakdown. Few of us have friends as kind as Tracy or as evil as Shiela Carter. The vast majority fall somewhere in the middle.

I remember kid Billy but never take teenage characters all that seriously. Soaps tend to tinker with personality during recast. You're comments remind of of a parent who says to a son 'You were such a good child, what happened?' Well, parents may be biased but we all know people, as well as characters, evolve and change--not always for the best. I was never a real Y&R fan until LML and now the current regime. I always watched but saw Y&R as too slow moving and often too much the byproduct of top/ down institutional thinking.

[DRW50]

The reason it is a big deal to me is that John raised Billy. There was never any doubt that Billy saw John as his primary parent or loved John dearly until Miller was hired. Then we started getting the rewrites which implied that the only parent Billy had ever really had was a neglectful Jill, and we started getting stuff like him spitting venom at John in that NYE episode.

I'm not saying that it was realistic for the Abbotts to accept Billy. I'm just saying that so casually ending these relationships meant that Billy was left with no foundation. Billy has nothing and is nothing. No friends. No family. No purpose. As a result, they just have to latch him on to one woman after another, and try to hope that Billy Miller making silly faces at the Newmans will make people attach him to that family.

[lovely_m]

Saving ATWT, I know that you asked CarlD2 why he thought JT was an interesting character but I thought that I may answer that.

In today's soap and primetime world playing a hero is much harder than playing the anti-hero. Heroes are usually conflicted with doing what is right and given in to their vices. Last year Colleen told JT that she wanted him and despite his feelings for her he rejected her. He told her that the ring around his finger meant something to him and he wanted to work things out with Victoria. He also told her the being a family with Victoria and Reed was the most important thing to him. It would have been easy for JT to sleep with Colleen and break his marriage vows like the other men around this time were doing, but he didn't. What made his refusal even more impressive was the fact that he has a history with Colleen and she is arguably the love of his life and soulmate. Most soap males would have used that as an excuse to cheat.

He's not just a knight in shining armor, he's a good father, and he's very supportive to his lovers.

[DRW50]

Well said.

I would say that heroes are far more interesting than anti-heroes. JT could have gone anywhere. Meanwhile, Y&R's leading men are just going straight down the toilet, where they belong.

[Cheap21]

Im surprised JT lasted as long as he did. I expected him to leave years ago. He never really did anything for me.

[Saving ATWT]

Billy spent most of his time off canvus and in boarding school. I hate when soaps do this with characters (Nick, Victoria) and then expect viewers to believe that there has been a loving parent/child relationship. Billy ended up living with John in his teens but I've always viewed Jack as his father figure. I don't see the NYE episode as Billy spitting venom at John. The writings are using John's 'ghost' to represent Billy's conscience, the higher self the character could be. The message is that Billy could be a better man. Billy has a sort of internal rebellion going on, a fight between who he should be and who he wants to be (higher and base nature). Also, just because a child fights against a parent doesn't imply a lack of love. Are you implying that Billy is disrespectful or fails to honor his father? I watched that episode and got the feeling that Billy fought so hard because he knew John was correct. Also, I loved how John did not get angry. He just smiled and loved his son as Billy trashed around. Parents and kids have fights--I've called my parents far worse than anything Billy said--but that does not suggest a lack of love. There have also been many scenes in which Billy has spoken fondly about 'dad' during interactions with his siblings. No, Billy doesn't always 'honor thy mother and father' but he in now way hates John.

I felt the NYC episode was rather well-written. It was based on 'honor thy mother and father that thy days shall be long,' and the writing demonstrated the wisdom of such an injunction. Basically, you John is showing Billy that his behavior--his failure to be a good man--will lead to death. John was asserting that the best form of 'honor' is self-respect and good living. That 'honoring his father' meant utilizing the good life lessons John set by example. Billy acted like a character out of the Exorcist because change, self-respect and human decency is hard. Victoria, a woman who Billy had recently harmed, finding him and acting with kindness was intended to demonstrate that Billy can be forgiven and have a good future. I feel as if this episode might have come off better as a short story. I did not think the direction was very good and, therefore, possibly the moral of the story was not overly clear. This is what happens when soaps try at getting 'deep'. Y&R can and does put out some ver good stand alone episodes and is good at working with themes. The current 'Father Knows Best' motif is cleaver when you toss Victor into the mix. This is probably another Maria effort to be 'ironic' but they have done a great job at playing with cliche without being chiche. Taking on the idealized 1950's notion of family like this is actually pretty daring because all soaps more or less uphold family as the highest value. I'm sure John will show up again, how could TPTB resist.

[DeeeDee]

+1.

+1.