Members YRBB Posted April 15, 2015 Members Share Posted April 15, 2015 You are more brutal with your killings, Carl, than the show is itself! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted April 15, 2015 Members Share Posted April 15, 2015 I just don't see Brienne as a character with no development at all. She is one of my all-time favorites. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted April 15, 2015 Members Share Posted April 15, 2015 She spent all of season 3 on the road arguing with Jaime. She spent most of season 4 berating Podrick, and it was the same in the premiere. They mix in some occasional comments about her appearance and some talk about her honor and duty, but for the most part it has all blurred together. I didn't mind it until the premiere, where 2-3 minutes were taken up with nothing more than the 50th sour rant in Podrick's direction. I have the same reaction to this I had to the 3 straight seasons of Arya making sour faces and snapping - I got it the first time, and the second, and the third... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRBB Posted April 15, 2015 Members Share Posted April 15, 2015 +1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted April 15, 2015 Members Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) I hate to go "the books" because I know that upsets people, but in the books, her time on the road is spent meeting locals who have been affected by the horrors of the Boltons taking over the North. GRRM writes the tragedy through her eyes. On the show, there is no particular horror, because most of what we see of the North is Ramsay's pectorals. On the show, it's just - why are we seeing her? She's looking for the Stark girls, but nothing happens during this until the climactic moment. The rest is pointless. It's the same scene over and over and over, and it's not even an interesting scene - it's just her verbally abusing a dumbass. That's Cersei's role, not Brienne's. Edited April 15, 2015 by DRW50 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted April 15, 2015 Members Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) To me Brienne's story last season was really a sideline at best - she'd had a lot more going on, IMO, in Season 3 and so they gave her a bit of a rest in Season 4. I expect it to get somewhere real this year, frankly, especially now that they've finally apparently dispensed with her chasing Arya's tail. She seems to be questioning her entire identity, which is about right for her at this point, I feel. You see it as the same scene over and over, I see it as running down the throughlines for each character until they reach a turning point - I think we can make that argument for most of the main characters on the show being on that trajectory, whether they're Cersei or Brienne or Daenerys, or Jon or Arya or Stannis or Theon. They all do what they do, or endure what they endure, until something galvanizes them and upends their world and worldview. That's why I don't hold with the opinion I see sometimes that, say, Daenerys' or Jon or Stannis' scenes are repetitive and boring because they're either in the same place or (in the case of Stannis) stuck in the same mindset, and it's the same for me with someone like Brienne. Arya's been the same way. She was going nowhere fast with the Hound, much like Brienne, but her character ultimately evolved and moved beyond him. Edited April 15, 2015 by Vee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted April 15, 2015 Members Share Posted April 15, 2015 I get what you're saying, but I just don't think it's working onscreen. Some of these stories work best with more character involvement. Jon is one of my favorites and I don't agree with the nonstop bashing of how worthless he is, but even then, I thought the show hit a slog with him in seasons 2 and 3. It's even worse with Brienne because she is isolated from everything but Podrick, and their relationship is increasingly tiresome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ThePrinceOfSunspear Posted April 16, 2015 Members Share Posted April 16, 2015 Why I don't understand considering the show is supposed to be based upon the books or so the hack writers claim. Your take down of their work is absolutely brilliant to the point where there's nothing more I can add except to say the show is just floundering. All the storylines feel like they've stalled and even its not until episode 4 that I felt anything major had happened. What they've done to Loras and Brienne is very frustrating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted April 16, 2015 Members Share Posted April 16, 2015 I realize it sounds like a lot of bitching on my part, and maybe it is, but I do feel like the show can do better than this - some of it's fine, it's just an overall lack of focus and energy, even though the whole point of changing from the books was supposedly to have more focus. I do realize it's a chore to read through and I apologize. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ThePrinceOfSunspear Posted April 16, 2015 Members Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) It's your opinion I don't think you owe anyone an apology for respectfully stating your thoughts on a show. Edited April 16, 2015 by ThePrinceOfSunspear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members quartermainefan Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 For once the best part of the episode featured Mhysa Khalisee Dany. Tactical error there, Mhysa. You needed to have a law for justifiable homicide or temporary insanity. This will come back to bite you. Loved Sam's speech. Strong episode all around and nice to see Bronn again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRBB Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 Very good episode. Excited to finally see Dorne. Very interested to see what they will do with Jamie going there. When he said he wasn't going alone, I hoped he meant Bronn. It was very nice seeing him again. I bet he's excited to be getting away from that nitwit fiance/wife of his. Sam's speech in support of Jon was wonderful. The kind of thing you definitely couldn't see Sam doing even a season or two ago. He's grown so much and become so much more courageous. I am excited for Jon as Lord Commander. KH's reaction to winning was very well played. Thrilled to see Arya reach her destination, and definitely thrilled to see Jaqen again. I was wondering if that would happen. I haven't gotten that far into book 4 yet, so I wonder what all this will entail. For those complaining about Brienne, well, there you have it! I thought for sure she'd never see Sansa for another 25 seasons, so it was a big surprise to have her talk to her (not so much a surprise that Sansa turned her down). For a second there I thought Podrick was a goner. I'm glad we finally see the plan. Now that things are aligning, we get a sense of where everything is going. That's why I can't find the energy to complain because, in most cases, they are moving around the pieces in a big board, even if we don't see it, even if it takes a lot of time. Always fun watching the small council drama of King's Landing. It's like those Jabot board meetings of yesteryear on Y&R (with more decapitations, of course). LH did some greatly fun and subtle work during a lot of it. I laughed and laughed at "will she kill every dwarf?" and then plop! the dwarf's head on the table. I know I shouldn't have, but I did. The Dany stuff was, once again, fascinating. I'm here for the journey and, while each season's resonance has varied for me, I am still very much loving it. The moment she had to decide whether to execute the man or not was an absolutely breathtaking part and I thought it was expertly directed, especially that shot of the hands remaining up for a second following the decapitation. And Drogon's back! I don't know what it is about those dragons, but what's happened between Dany and them is heartbreaking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) That just left me wondering even more why Brienne is on the show. They treated what should have been a complex meeting with all the energy of Brienne asking Sansa why she never gave back her hot rollers. Sansa's story should be a strong point of the show and instead it feels lackadaisical, like something made in Canada that aired on UPN at 6 in the afternoon 20 years ago. And Littlefinger is so completely stupid, as is this "let's dye Sansa's hair and have her parade around in a public inn" plan - he reminds me of a Disney villain, and not the good kind. There's such a huge disparity between what is and isn't working on the show. The Dany and Jon stories finally feel like they're going somewhere, Cersei's sort of works (although the introduction to Dorne mostly amounted to Ellaria being Suzy Costello and Doran smacking her down - I've already seen this with Tywin and Cersei, why are we seeing it again?) and then you have Brienne wandering the backwoods for all eternity and Arya making more of her Queen Christina faces and reciting her list for the 545th time and coming across more and more like a poser. I am glad we're finally seeing Dany tested - even if she's failing, at least we're finally getting to see depth to her character. And the election was very exciting, especially Sam exposing Slynt, and Aemon getting to break the tie. I love Aemon. And the ending with Drogon was wonderful too. Edited April 20, 2015 by DRW50 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I think Brienne's time will come, I think the point they are making is that her journey will come full circle later, but they need to build her up to being the girls salvation. Right now both of the Stark girls have denied her, and refused her help, her honor, journey and her ability to keep her promise to Cately. But there will probably come a time when Brienne will save them and justify her existence on the show and her capabilities as an honorable knight with each girl will come to fruition. Right now Brienne has nothing to offer them, what can she really keep them safe from? The Hound has a huge point last season, Arya doesn't need her and neither really does Sansa. But maybe there will come a time when they both will. I think they are leading up to this. It's nice to have traction on Dany and Jon's story. Couldn't care less about Cersei and her issues. Edited April 20, 2015 by Skin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted April 20, 2015 Members Share Posted April 20, 2015 I hope you're right. At this point I just see her and Podrick as huge black holes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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