Linda Gottlieb article 1992

[EricMontreal22]

That was just pre Rauch. Holly hd big issues with Rauch...

[DeliaIrisFan]

I admittedly never watched OLTL during the Gottlieb years, but I've seen plenty of clips on YouTube. Based on that, I have to agree with what Connie Passalacqua/Marlena de la Croix wrote in a column from the early 90s that she reposted when GL went off the air: It's too bad that GL at the time did not have the PR engine that ABC Daytime was putting behind Gottlieb, because GL under Nancy Curlee's writing team actually was the real deal in terms of being the kind of intelligent, groundbreaking show that OLTL claimed to be.

I can see why Gottlieb would have rubbed Slezak the wrong way. All of that hype about Gottlieb being from the film industry, with the implication that she was somehow superior to everyone in daytime, may have had a particular sting for Slezak, since she was as and is the creme de la creme of daytime, with her own classical stage training and credentials. Slezak probably thought all of the fanfare was absurd.

What's weird is that there were actually several things about Gottlieb's biggest claim to fame, Dirty Dancing, that would have really worked well on a soap opera. Possibly Gottlieb started enjoying her own hype and trying to do the kinds of "high-brow" work that I hardly think movie critics really considered that movie to be.

One thing I will give credit to Dirty Dancing for - the way that movie used music still holds up today, whereas whenever I see a clip of one of DOOL's supercouple music montages from the '80s, it usually looks very cheesy and dated. Gottlieb really could have used music and production values to enhance stories about young love to drive OLTL forward. Instead, she hired a string quartet to score the multi-week-long death of a young heroine, which was interspersed with old clips primarily of long-gone characters that the dying heroine had never even known. Huh? I've seen all of those Megan episodes, and I still don't know what the point was supposed to be. Why on earth didn't Gottlieb use her great taste in music to commission the best love theme any soap couple has ever had for young Joey and his *really good friend* Billy Douglas, and just play that out as a B-story with uber subtext and nuance, and see how far she could get away with taking it without actually spelling out that Joey was gay and had a boyfriend?

ABC still probably would have killed the story when they caught on that this kid was more than Joey's little friend who always seemed to be over at Llanfair doing homework. But it could have gone far enough for young gay viewers to see themselves in the story and think, "maybe how I'm feeling is ok" - and for mothers whose own kids might have been in the process of coming out to see Viki, the perfect mother, make it clear that little Billy was welcome in their home and that she did not love her son any less. Like Megan's death, it seems to me the homophobia story was mainly a backwards-looking narrative in which characters were talking about things that happened in the past (in this case, primarily about someone who was long dead by that point and who had never been on-screen). Since none of the living characters had HIV/AIDS, there was no opportunity to show an established character realizing that they should not be afraid of people with AIDS and show some compassion; and, since ABC wouldn't allow any same-sex intimacy or relationships on-screen, there was no real payoff with the Ryan Phillipe character, either. Unless the fact that everyone - including the Washington Post - knew that OLTL did a gay story and gave them a pat on the back for it was supposed to be the pay-off.

Which brings me to another thing about Gottlieb's OLTL that seems so different than Dirty Dancing - when I first saw that movie as a young child, I had absolutely no idea that there was a back alley abortion in the plot (they never said the word), or that pretty much every character except Patrick Swayze's was Jewish and that that was the real source of conflict between him and Jennifer Grey's family. That kind of subtle interjection of unexpected social issues in an otherwise formulaic movie might have been more successful in the long run on OLTL than some of her and Malone's attempts at social relevance. It sounds like OLTL cultivated all kinds of press coverage in outlets that didn't even usually notice soaps about how they were doing this edgy, envelope-pushing gay story the likes of which daytime had never seen. And, lo and behold, ABC wouldn't let them have a major legacy character be the one to come out, and once the GLAAD awards ceremony was over and the reporters had tired of the novelty of reporting on homosexuality on soaps, the network wasted no time in telling her to get rid of the Ryan Phillipe character. I'm not really sure what OLTL did with the AIDS story that ATWT had not already accomplished years earlier, with much less attention, except that Gottlieb was able to get the rights to use the AIDS quilt. But I kind of think that if Robert Calhoun had wanted to use the AIDS quilt on ATWT, he probably had the wherewithal to make it happen. He was, after all, a gay man who'd been partnered with a once-famous star of old Hollywood for decades. Maybe it's not that he and Doug Marland didn't think of the idea first because they weren't as sophisticated as Malone and Gottlieb. Maybe they just opted to not go out of their way to attract mainstream attention from people who most likely wouldn't actually watch the show, anyway, and in the process were able to do as much or more to enlighten their audience.

[LoyaltoAMC]

Found a short review of Holly's book. About Rauch, the reviewer writes "Holly has much to say about producer Paul Rauch (currently of The Young and The Restless') but none of it is good. According to Holly, Rauch took pleasure in humiliating her in front of the other actors, and in finally firing her from the show after seventeen years at 'OLTL' during an early morning impromptu meeting, informing her: "When your contract's up I'm dropping you! You're just not worth it to me!" Why did Rauch seem to have such contempt for Holly? I highly doubt he is racist, despite what a lot of people think.

http://timeaftertimeonlinedrama.webs.com/apps/blog/show/1447470-daytime-history-paul-rauch-racist-erika-slezak-borderlining-on-racism-strasser-and-nixon-loved-

[CSF]

I think that was Clint Ritche.

[EricMontreal22]

I do think, and I feel bad saying this, that Holly is a diva in at least one sense of the word, and I think people like that in general turned Rauch off. Still I do think he saw OLTL as the embodiment in daytime of what he saw doing so well in primetime as Dynasty, etc. Rich people, camp, outrageous turns. Under the skills of Peggy, who was able to base a lot of her plotsin history (Vicki/Nicki being the big one obviously) and not in random BIG events that worked. But the fact the show fell from, what, second to TENTH place within pretty much 2 years after she left, says a lot IMHO. That said I think the man has impecabletaste when it comes to production on his shows--I don'teven mind howhe brightens upthe shows, as much as I prefered Gottlieb'sLlanview I do think the East Coast soaps shouldn't be quite as dark (literally) as the west coast shows have become under Bell (and I include his time and influence on DAYS here)

[CSF]

The dropping to tenth place really throws me off. Did OLTL really fall to 10th place or is that just a mistake on the author's behalf. If you look at the yearly ratings archive, it was in 7th place in the 1991-1992 season and 6th place the following year.

[Pine Charles]

It probably dropped that low (10th) for a week or two.... I think that's what they mean (not for the yearly ratings).

[SFK]

He also found her voice to be annoying and told her to get voice lessons. A woman who had been in the theatre for damn near twenty years. Whether you like her voice or not, that's just insulting. I remember from the book that he'd often drop little bombs like that on her, then turn on his heel and disappear. She described his face as owl-like and devoid of features.

[Paul Raven]

In 1972 Ellen Holly wrote an article The New York Times about actor Anthony Quinn's plans to play black Haitian Emperor Henri Christophe entitled 'Black History Does Not Need Anthony Quinn'

Quinn wrote a letter in response arguing his right to play a black character.

[Vee]

Ellen Holly was wrong about Slezak, but right about most other things as far as I can tell. According to Erika, she'd fought to give EH more on the show in prior years. Holly's book came from a place of (mostly righteous) bitterness and at times people got caught in the crossfire. Strasser and Holly are also apparently still friends; a few years ago, the soap rags claimed Holly was writing a screenplay featuring Strasser. Holly is a talented writer but good luck shopping that.

As to Gottlieb, I think she was brilliant but, like Wendy Riche, difficult. John Loprieno was rumored to have left the show over her, and of course there is the infamous James DePaiva chair-throwing incident (pre-Greg Evans). Grace Phillips (Sarah) and Gottlieb also did not click, despite her being an LG hire; when Phillips was fired, it was apparently RSW who stepped in and told them not to recast her role again, which led to Nora. Incidentally, the story goes that as OLTL was first casting about to recast Sarah in '91, Jensen Buchanan stopped by the set for a visit; Gottlieb's crew did not know who she was, which left her snubbed and uninterested in returning to the role. From what I've seen, I liked Grace Phillips better.

There's a lot to love about the Rauch era of OLTL - Tina, Cord, Gabrielle, Max, Eterna, Mitch, Niki, etc. - but also a lot to dislike, mostly in retrospect in terms of what was done long-term to the fabric of the show and the original families. That's why I think Gottlieb was necessary. His black characters were never more than tokens. Rauch worked in the glitzy '80s but it was clear to me he had no idea what to do in the '90s.

I wasn't aware of Phil Carey having a problem with RS. He gave her as much praise as he gave anyone in his taciturn way in an interview a couple years back.

[EastMA2]

There's no 'alleged' about it. Phil definitely marched into Ms. Gottlieb's office. As someone else alluded to, Strasser was not popular with costars and crew, she could be very nasty to them, and they loved Elaine Princi, so Phil and many others were upset that Elaine was fired to bring Robin back. Even Michael Logan wrote about this in TV Guide at the time how cast and crew were not looking forward to Strasser's return.

[DeliaIrisFan]

ITA Ellen Holly was treated abominably, and I think she was completely justified in calling Rauch, OLTL, and the entertainment industry in general out on their pervasive racism.

To me, what stands out most is not what actually happened to Ellen Holly and Lillian Hayman, which itself wasn't so different from what was happening to other actresses of a certain age who'd been original cast members of these shows at that time. In some ways, a black core family had become like the Hughes family on ATWT, right down to being swept aside in the '80s. The details of what happened at OLTL were definitely uglier - the parking lot incident, etc. - because women of color were no doubt seen as even more expendable. Racism and sexism and ageism are linked. But what came next really showed how little regard the industry had for the contribution of black performers and characters. ATWT eventually rebuilt the Hughes family, but when ABC finally made the break from the Rauch era in a way that could not have been more obvious, there was still no mandate to rectify what was done to this family. Ellen Holly was alive and well and working on soaps at the time, but nobody ever seemed to attempt to invite her back to the show, even in some half-assed way like Jacqueline Courtney on AW. I guess it's no surprise that characters like Rachel and Leila with so much potential are barely hanging by a thread to this day - if Carla and Sadie Gray's existence could be completely whitewashed from the show, the message is clear that no black characters or actors will ever really be allowed their due. It's so shameful.

[Vee]

Apparently Gottlieb asked Holly to appear during the anniversary in the '90s, but she refused. In a sad note in her book, she said she wouldn't know what to say at the celebration gala to former colleagues who were now all quite well-off, while she toiled as a NY librarian.

I think that even if Holly won't appear (she last worked in a 2002 HBO film with Charles S. Dutton and aside from white hair didn't look that different) they have to at least acknowledge the Hall family before the show goes. I have always maintained that trotting the story out in press pieces is not enough; what was done to those characters is a stain on the show a la Tarty.

OLTL now has more of a black canvas than it's had in ages, even if not all the pieces are ones I'd prefer. I'd like to see just one Hall.

[SFK]

Earlier in the book, she talks about an incident where she discovered that pictures of the cast had been taken in celebration of the show's anniversary (5th? 8th? 10th? this was in the '70s) and she and Ms. Hayman weren't even informed/invited up to be in them. I believe at this point they were already the only two remaining original cast members. She remarked on how with every other show in daytime, they ALWAYS managed to snap at least one shot of the original cast members, and no one took the care to make sure that they were even in the group shots. I've seen old black and white shots of the cast assembled, sharing a laugh on set, and there's no Holly or Hayman, I wonder if those were the pics in question. But I imagine all of that would come flooding back had she returned for the 25th, perhaps caught a glimpse of Slezak, Ritchie, Carey, Strasser, Storm, Chris, et al sharing a laugh or two, steadily employed, financially comfortable.

[SFK]

We're still struggling with race on soaps, so saying something like, "Who knows what things could have been like in a different time" seems futile, but it's really too bad that OLTL's satellite family/mother-daughter duo of Sadie and Carla Gray didn't take off like AMC's satellite family/mother-daughter duo of Mona and Erica Kane. Those exotic, dark brunettes putting their sweet, salt of the earth, world-weary mamas through emotions. They weren't ready for it back in 1968, Carla would have been demonized or ridiculed like the tragic mulatto archetype in fiction often is. But imagine if Carla had been given permission to be more of a vixen, or more of a "don't hate the player, hate the game" type of character who used her situation to her advantage, not purely for self-serving reasons, but to also challenge the racism of others. If they just played more with that. I'm not saying that her race and physicality should have dictated and her character's each and every storyline, but it seems like all of that fascinating and juicy backstory/character study got abandoned along the way.

I wouldn't trade Viki as our heroine by any means, that's been her spot since day one, but I just wish that Carla could have shared more of that spotlight over the years. She and Ed should be right there beside Viki and Clint with a brood of their own... children, grandchildren, even great-grandchildren by now, the whole bit.