Not saying "plot engine" is a good thing. But tossing out new sh!t every week keeps the sausage factory running.

And indeed, it leads to a "plot driven" show that can often sacrifice development and slow buildup because the plot keeps churning.

There are two types of plot-driven. Heavy plot which goes fast and furious and relies on production values, which might be able to hide the flaws from viewers at least for a while (this is the type of JFP and Guza style plotting), or pointless plotting where they basically give up on much of anything other than clinging to the same few scenes over and over. That's more Sheffer's style. Billy has been reduced to nothing more than Miller mugging -- they obviously have no idea what to do with him or even who to put him in a scene with. Or this Tucker mess, which almost overnight turned into yet another showcase for the Newman chest-thumping. Or the psychos gone wild, stories that go nowhere and take up long stretches of time with absolutely nothing of value (Daisy, Patty, etc.) And the rotgut stories for the "Scoobies", which are among some of the worst ever on the show and seem made up as they go along.

I can't even imagine how he pitches any of this. I would guess he just plays a tape recording of previous comments he's made, and MAB is too busy patting herself on the back to notice.

There are two types of plot-driven. Heavy plot which goes fast and furious and relies on production values, which might be able to hide the flaws from viewers at least for a while (this is the type of JFP and Guza style plotting), or pointless plotting where they basically give up on much of anything other than clinging to the same few scenes over and over. That's more Sheffer's style. Billy has been reduced to nothing more than Miller mugging -- they obviously have no idea what to do with him or even who to put him in a scene with. Or this Tucker mess, which almost overnight turned into yet another showcase for the Newman chest-thumping. Or the psychos gone wild, stories that go nowhere and take up long stretches of time with absolutely nothing of value (Daisy, Patty, etc.) And the rotgut stories for the "Scoobies", which are among some of the worst ever on the show and seem made up as they go along.

I can't even imagine how he pitches any of this. I would guess he just plays a tape recording of previous comments he's made, and MAB is too busy patting herself on the back to notice.

There is really no point in talking with Mark about this. He will say: I understand that, but I luv Maria and Hogan. They're great, they will stay with Y&R forever. Mark does not care about quality storytelling, Mark only cares about there being a show on air with a name: Y&R. Other than that - nothing.

Hamner will stay because he is a sycophant and Sheffer will stay because he covers Maria's laziness. Simple.

Yes. There will not be change. I really don't believe it. Thus, I think "stumping" for it is an act of futility...really I do. If we're right, and this show is "done" in this decade...I can't shake the feeling that THIS is the team that will take it into that good night.

I can't even imagine how he pitches any of this. I would guess he just plays a tape recording of previous comments he's made, and MAB is too busy patting herself on the back to notice.

To be a fly on the wall of these sessions -- JUST ONCE -- is like a dying wish of mine .

There is really no point in talking with Mark about this. He will say: I understand that, but I luv Maria and Hogan. They're great, they will stay with Y&R forever. Mark does not care about quality storytelling, Mark only cares about there being a show on air with a name: Y&R. Other than that - nothing.

I'm providing a few edits for accuracy,

"I understand that, but I luv Maria and Hogan. They're great, t[T]hey will stay with Y&R forever[until cancellation].

As for the second part:

Mark does not care about quality storytelling, Mark only cares about there being a show on air with a name: Y&R.

Mark does care about quality storytelling, and he finds it in many places (books, primetime, films). Mark often enjoys -- even now -- what happens on Y&R, but he shares the reservations of many. However (and here is the germ of truth in your second part), Mark is a lifelong Y&R viewer and has a "relationship" with the show/characters that transcends the storytelling. Translation: Mark will put up with a GREAT DEAL of sh!tty storytelling before he calls it quits. He would, however, call it quits (at least temporarily) when it exceeds a certain threshold. This is why he is not currently watching B&B.

OMG--Sylvia Browne was mentioned in this thread, and here is what WLS has to say this morning!

Psychic Sylvia Browne to appear on Y&R again Per the Yuma Sun, "She's going to be playing herself for the second time on THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS."

The LML era continues!!

OMG--Sylvia Browne was mentioned in this thread, and here is what WLS has to say this morning!

I hope you didn't think I was making that up. I read the news on WLS, that's why I put it in spoiler tags. Damnit, I should have put a link.

http://www.welovesoaps.net/

http://www.yumasun.com/news/browne-55774-gift-psychic.html

Edited January 27, 201015 yr by lovely_m

I'm providing a few edits for accuracy,

"I understand that, but I luv Maria and Hogan. They're great, t[T]hey will stay with Y&R forever[until cancellation].

As for the second part:

Mark does care about quality storytelling, and he finds it in many places (books, primetime, films). Mark often enjoys -- even now -- what happens on Y&R, but he shares the reservations of many. However (and here is the germ of truth in your second part), Mark is a lifelong Y&R viewer and has a "relationship" with the show/characters that transcends the storytelling. Translation: Mark will put up with a GREAT DEAL of sh!tty storytelling before he calls it quits. He would, however, call it quits (at least temporarily) when it exceeds a certain threshold. This is why he is not currently watching B&B.

Therein lies the contradiction. B&B is not good at all at the moment, but Y&R is worse, more offensive and psychotic. Which brings us to a conclusion that you will never quit. And you shouldn't, it's fine. But then you need to change your stance from I will tolerate some sh!t to I will tolerate all sh!t.

Therein lies the contradiction. B&B is not good at all at the moment, but Y&R is worse, more offensive and psychotic. Which brings us to a conclusion that you will never quit. And you shouldn't, it's fine. But then you need to change your stance from I will tolerate some sh!t to I will tolerate all sh!t.

LMAO! Y&R is worse than B&B?? Really? Well, I don't see it. I haven't watched B&B regularly in about a month, but I still record it daily, and I have to confess that about once or twice a week I break down and watch. And in those episodes I'd personally say B&B is more offensive and schizophrenic (word change intentional). But taste is subjective....

I'd really, really like viewers of BOTH SHOWS to weigh in on this. Is B&B really better than Y&R? That's like a life-altering cognition for me,

I hope you didn't think I was making that up. I read the news on WLS, that's why I put it in spoiler tags. Damnit, I should have put a link.

http://www.welovesoaps.net/

http://www.yumasun.c...ft-psychic.html

I thought you were calling ME Sylvia Browne, because I had just "predicted" that MAB etc wouldn't be fired. I read your post egocentrically.

Sylvia is an example of utter sh!t, and she moves the show closer to the "threshold" for me...but not too close, LOL.

LMAO! Y&R is worse than B&B?? Really? Well, I don't see it.

No blindness, no chipmanks, no doppelgängers, no psychos, no fetus-burning people...

Sure. It's worse.

Like I said: you are hopeless.

Which is great, Y&R needs people like you.

Edited January 27, 201015 yr by Sylph

Considering that Sylvia was about as reliable as a DNA test in that story, I'm not sure why they would bring her back.

Sylvia is an example of utter sh!t, and she moves the show closer to the "threshold" for me...but not too close, LOL.

Voilà.

No blindness, no chipmanks, no doppelgängers, no psychos, no fetus-burning people, no chipmunks.

You forgot hysterical pregnancies, plane crashes without injury following by house burnings a week later...

There is no denying the horribleness of this plotting.

But I don't see much better in Forrester having its 102nd set of owners, a high school student managing a marketing campaign (in competition with another 20-something who never went to college), iteration 962 of Ridge-Taylor-Brooke, iteration 426 of Eric-Stephanie-some other floozy, iteration 206 of Nick-two other women, etc.

Y&R at least manages to be ENTERTAINING and WELL ACTED (IMO--I realize others disagree). B&B takes these amazing, amazing actors and puts them in this ... boring sh!t. Like now suddenly "Whip" is in love with Taylor. After a few weeks? And the character has been insta-changed from devious to sappy/geeky. Really?? Ric Hearst deserves better. Sarah Brown remembers her rapist, and ON THAT VERY SAME EPISODE the rapist appears with designs on Hope. Really??

I will acknowledge that B&B is more reality based...but the insta-plot-turns and circularity of the stories make for a show that is far more tedious. Plus we have the burdens of Ronn Moss, Jennifer Gareis, Jaqueline Wood, Texas Battle, etc. And we have (again) the introduction of new characters suddenly to be backburnered (e.g., Justin Barber, Whip Hubble). This bespeaks financial mismanagement and a total lack of planning.

I'm not interested in a B&B vs. Y&R war. Both have a place in my heart. But B&B is just soooooooo bad, IMO.

Then again, SPACESHIPS could land in Genoa City, and I wouldn't mind if the characters reacted IN CHARACTER and with decent performances.

No comment really.

I may not be watching, but B&B sound way more realistic. It may be boring and have repetitive storylines without nothing much happening, but at least they don't insult their viewers day after day. The acting on Y&R no longer means anything (once it could have saved some of the writing) because it's all too horrible.

Edited January 27, 201015 yr by dmarex

I may not be watching, but B&B sound way more realistic. It may be boring and have repetitive storylines without nothing much happening, but at least they don't insult their viewers day after day. The acting on Y&R no longer means anything (once it could have saved some of the writing) because it's all too horrible.

Exactly.

The Y&R people serve dysfunctionality, craziness, psychoses, neuroses, crimes, vileness... And revel in it.

Sickening.