ATWT lack of diversity/balance

[Meldus]

I have always been curious to know who ATWT's targeted audience was? Every other soap seems to have a targeted audience or a very unique fan base but ATWT never really seems to have any particular fan base. And even though I have watched ATWT off and on for 20 years, I currently don't see myself in any of the show's current characters.

Just based on the current casting it appears that the show is definitely going for a more conservative, middle-age, non diverse viewership. Just look at the the latest departures Adam (young), Bonnie (minority), Vienna (non-american) and Mason (gay) and upcoming casting. * Sorry don't count Brad/AP because he was let go before DK came along.

It's amazing how the writers fail to write for the 20's somethings, the token gay couple is a mess, interracial couples are very short-lived, minority characters simply forgotten and most characters over the age of 60 are rarely seen. And now the new writer seems even more determined to write this show like it's Mayberry in Middle-America.

I would love to ask Chris Goutman and the writers why?? Are they really that blind to see that their viewership is suffering and that any type of diversity could increase the ratings. Why isn't the show bringing back Jessica, Ben, Bonnie, Jade, Derek, Dallas? Why did Vienna have to be sent off? Why did Adam have to leave just because Mick was coming to town? Why is Alison and Maddie (who are pretty interchangeable) the only 20's women on the show? Why couldn't a cute and sassy Latina, Asian or Arabic women come and sweep Casey off his feet instead of him hanging out with dreadful Alison and boring Maddie. If Dusty had to break up with Bonnie, why couldn't some sexy woman of color come on the show and get his attention, instead of him lurking around Teri, some Lucy look-alike or Janet? Yes these women might be pretty but dang, they all look alike. And I won't even start talking about the lack of diverse males on the show.

Maybe it's just me, but I love to see diversity in my life and unfortunately ATWT isn't living up to my expectations. It's really is sad because as much as I would like for ATWT to succeed, I fear that tiic narrow-mindedness is going to lead it straight to cancellation.

[R Sinclair]

When Sarah Brown was on ATWT, she said that the show has a HUGE following in Louisiana.

[Chris B]

ATWT has never had a diverse cast, but it has had several successful minority characters throughout the years. Right now with the large minority fanbase that the Bell soaps have, why hasn't ATWT tapped into the market? Characters like Lein, Jessica, Ben and Bonnie could easily be weaved into the canvas and it would help bring in another type of viewer. They don't need more younger viewers to stay on air, they need viewers. Period. By focusing just on midwestern conservative viewers, they're narrowing the market too much. Nuke only gets their token stories because the show is afraid of the backlash if they write that awful couple off.

[DRW50]

ATWT was once a show which presented a conservative mindset in the true sense of the word. Conservative in that everyone was together. They were a community. There were ruptures in that community, but in the end, they were still together.

There were no token blacks, or token gays, or token Asians. That did not happen until after Marland passed away. After he died, the show still made some effort at diversity, especially in the latter half of the decade, with Ben Harris, Camille, Denise (who had ties to the Hughes family). Once Goutman arrived, this changed, with Camille's inexplicable firing, Denise having little story until she was written out, and then Ben and Jessica given material for a year or two until they were also phased out. The main Jessica/Ben storylines which were around the same time as Isaac, Bonnie, Marshall, often had the feeling of, "Look, these are black characters, and they're in a story!" It was all something which the show seemed to have no long term investment in, and sure enough, most of them were gone within the space of about two years.

When Marland was headwriter, you had a much more low-key view of a diverse town, and diverse views. Like the Duncan/Jessica relationship. Lisa was not raised in a time where interracial relationships were acceptable. Duncan's daughter Beatrice struggled with her father marrying a black woman. Jessica's brother and parents were in disbelief that their strong, successful Jessica somehow felt she needed to marry a white man.

I'm sure that story was looked down on as a PSA, or as PC, or as being too cautious, or as taking the easy way out by not having a white woman and a black man, but what it did was carefully articulate why many people struggle with the idea of a relationship between a white man and a black woman, did nothing to condescend or label those with these views, and helped viewers accept Jessica and Duncan, who were, until awful writing killed them, an extremely popular couple. All of this on what was one of the most socially conservative soaps.

Comparing that to today, we have Dusty and Bonnie. A couple viewers barely saw, had no reason to care about, and who broke up because Dusty is still hung up on the somewhat annoying woman he briefly loved who died almost 4 years ago.

Someone at P&G, like someone at most other networks and corporations, got very, very scared of the idea of interracial relationships, especially those which are not presented in the most insulting, shameful terms, like Lily/Cane on Y&R. So that's where we are left at ATWT. A quaking fear or apathy towards any minorities, and a strong belief that if you DO have a minority, then the character(s) must be segregated.

[RomeAt50]

Primetime doesn't seem as scared of interracial relationships. Maybe I'm wrong but the fear of presenting interracial relationships seems to be bigger on daytime.

[soapfan770]

I really have to agree with Carl's assessment of ATWT of the past was very conservative. The small midwestern town setting doesn't seem to allow much for diversity does it? Heck Phillips was fired over numerous complaints of outrage over Kim not being punished for her adultery and being pregnant at the same time as her sister by the very same man. Her successors punished Kim to not only "lose" her baby but wind up married to the then villainous John. Funny thing is though I've heard ATWT maintained a big following amongst minority viewers because they could relate to large families living close together and all live in the same house together like the Hughes and the Stewarts.

Marland of course changed that with characters like Jessica, Lien, Amy Hughes, Hank, etc. Duncan and Jessica made a wonderful pairing together that was indeed popular with many viewers and Marland excellently explored the issues surrounding it. I do know that many took issue with the "Lisa is a bigot" plot point primarily because of her own colorful background which I might be inclined to agree with but I suppose it shows our own hypocrisy and inner flaws. Unfortunately as noted Duncan and Jessica were ripped apart by bad writing with the impossible back from the dead Shannon story(she was beheaded!!). That awful Jessica recast didn't help matters either.

2001-2004 was probably the last busy times for diversity on ATWT with characters like Ben, Jessica, Marshall, Isaac, Bonnie, Lien, Walker etc. again populating the canvas. Ben and Jessica were popular too but got ripped apart with the insipid Doc Reese story. Marshall was a promising character turned into a travesty. Walker had a wonderful interracial relationship with Barbara for a few months in 2004 but it was blown up too. Curtis came and gone within a blink of an eye.

Dusty and Bonnie didnt have much screentime, but they did seem to click in my opinion. Its a shame they sat on the way way backburner and then split. What a sorry state of affairs.

Most of ATWT's Hispanic characters have been major flops too(Diego, Pilar, Rafe, Ceclia(ICK!))

[DRW50]

Pilar, yikes. To think she went from some feisty race car driver to some feeble nothing.

Marland always knew how to make minority characters feel like integrated parts of families. He didn't have any minority families, aside from the Griffins, but he also treated characters like Jessica, Lien, Hank, with a great deal of respect. They were the same as everyone else.

Now when minorities are on ATWT it just doesn't seem to be the same. It's always a very noticeable difference. There's no way that Bonnie would not be having men chase after her, and working on cases like Jessica and Tom used to do. There's no way Jade wouldn't be mixing it up with the Walshes and the Snyders. It's the worst of both worlds. It's isolated black characters who should be part of already existing core families, yet instead are lucky to even show up oncamera.

As America has become more comfortable, not completely accepting, but at least more comfortable, with a rainbow, soaps seem to have lurched in the opposite direction.

Either the people who run most soaps truly have a hostility or ignorance towards those who aren't white, or they believe that viewers are all going to form a mob and storm the studio at any given moment.

I still wonder if they did that awful Doc Reese story just to have an excuse to phase Ben and Jessica out of the show.

[soapfan770]

I think these two promos showed off the diversity and generational storytelling of Marland. Even though both of these were post-Marland tales, he certainly had a lasting effect. First a Jessica promo. Then yes, a promo about John and Lisa!! It would never happen to today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8IbO45aMlo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TfUqN7hxcg

[All My Shadows]

OMG! That John/Lisa promo! I remember that! I remember that story!

[Meldus]

Thanks for the videos. I forgot just how wonderful ATWT use to be. Now it's a sad former shell of itself.

See that is what I don't understand, interracial relationships on primetime shows are increasing and "race" isn't even an issue. In daytime however interracial couples or minority couples are still some sort of taboo. And it just irks me when people say "oh what about Jessica and Duncan" in defense of ATWT current lack of diversity. Hello, Duncan and Jessica was over a decade ago. And Andy and Denise were not a real couple, because Denise was technically with Ben the whole time.

So in my opinion, ATWT does not get any cool points in this area anymore. Especially when the last two women of color relationships ended because the man was hung up on some other woman. Jade, first with Will, Adam and Casey and Bonnie with Dusty. Sorry it's hard for me to believe that in the real world, these men would dump a woman like Jade or Bonnie for Gwen, Alison or Jennifer's memory. The Dusty and Bonnie break up was the worst, because it's a known fact that Grayson McCouch requested the Dusty and Bonnie pairing. So for the writers to shelf the entire relationship and break them, so he can be forced into Janet and Teri's world is insulting to the actors and viewers.

As much as I hate to say it, I think the writers are protecting their own self interest or those of their wives and daughters when they shy away from diversity. Unfortunately, for daytime this way of thinking is the reason why viewers are tuning out by the thousands.

[DRW50]

I don't think any of us are trying to use Jessica and Duncan as a "defense" of what ATWT is today. We were just talking about the show's history. By and large ATWT is not a show which has been known for diversity, but they did manage, for a while, to have more balance, in a low-key, effective way which got past what is generally quite a conservative audience. For many years, the P&G and CBS soaps were known as the safe, cautious soaps compared to the more brash, bold ABC.

Of course now, aside from some parts of OLTL, ABC Daytime is far more socially conservative, in the worst use of the term, than I ever would have imagined.

[RomeAt50]

I'd say ABC is more liberal than P&G when it comes to diversity, interracial relationships and same-sex storylines but when it comes to the depiction of women ABC has really regressed.

Thats what puzzles me too. You'd think daytime would have come further by now but instead things have gotten worse.

[Meldus]

Oh sorry, I didn't mean people on this board. I meant viewers who generally use the Jessica/Duncan relationship as proof of ATWT former diversity as if once was enough. It's kinda like someone saying "I had a Black, Hispanic, Asian friend ONCE". Really doesn't prove one's open-mindedness at all.

[Quent]

I think ATWT had its best shot with the characters of Ben, Camille, Denise and Marshall. These were not token minorities the way Heather Dalton, Roy Franklin and Tucker (Steve Andropolous' friend) were earlier. Ben was a leading man type, Camille was a charming "heroine" type who matched wits with John Dixon, Denise not only gave birth to Kim's granchild, but had it out with Lily and Holden Snyder, and Marshall was a great flawed villain. Although Jessica was the most prominent black cast member (probably because of TT's stellar acting), her relationship with Duncan never caught fire with me. It was too contrived and NEVER had the chemistry of the Duncan/Shannon pairing.

[DRW50]

I wouldn't say ABC is more liberal on diversity or interracial relationships, at least not in daytime. AMC does have more black characters than any other soap, but they seem to just prop white characters. The only recent interracial relationship involved a ruthless DA and the prostitute he used to beat up. GH does not have minorities (I'm not counting bit players). OLTL has a diverse canvas, although we still see who the real favorites are in terms of importance and storyline, especially with the way Rachel has been written since her return.

Quent, I thought Jessica/Duncan had chemistry. I remember a scene where she walked in on him when he wasn't wearing a shirt, and there was some heat. Duncan and Shannon were more romance novel, and they were one of those couples who were helped because the actors were involved in real life, and they brought a lot of energy to their scenes. Jessica and Duncan were more sensible and down to earth, which was refreshing.

I agree they had their best chance with Camille, Denise, and Ben. After Goutman showed up they seemed to just fade away. I think the Denise character was poorly written at the start, as she sold her child and also made some bitter comments about Camille being biracial, and I think that was too much for a lot of viewers. But she did have a lot of potential, potential never realized.