It does bug me that MAB gets a pass. I first heard this rumor this past summer and now it's playing out just as I was told it would. TB has been loyal to not one but two Bell shows. And yet where there's smoke there's fire as far as some of these rumors go. I remember hearing Devon and Tyra were going to sleep together. It seemed like the stupidiest rumor ever but guess what? It happened. I don't for a single minute think she's got stories for Michelle and Michael, as a couple, up her sleeve. She's just not into any of these characters. Notice how Adam is getting a redemption story now so that Maria can write the hell out of the his story because he (this actor) is HERS.

She wanted to kill off CK because she could not stand her but the network would not let that happen so Maria pitched the cancer story in hopes of, at some point, being allowed to kill Lily.

I don't give MAB a free pass for anything. Yes, Sony wants to save money but it's MAB that's coming up with stupid storylines as away to put the vets in the positon to leave the show or have fans turn against them so that when they do leave there won't be as many angry people. This is exactly what she did with EB and I'm so glad he called her on it.

Her storylines border on the lines of Passions because they're so dark and unbelievable. Fans have been saying for the last year that she's been with the show what they want and many of those requests have been for Likey and Phick to have storylines without them being centered around Sharon or the Fishers and yet she continues to sholve Nick and Sharon along with Gloria/Kevin/Jeff down our throats whenever either of these couples are on. In the case of Nick & Sharon you would think that the writers didn't have them together that long with the amount of Shick pimping that MAB does with them but in reality they were together for 10 straight years. I guess she feels that Nick and Sharon fans should have more then that which is unreal!

I think it's sad that this is what she is planning to do with Likey & Phick along with Lauren there is so much that could be written for them and the character Lauren, Reintroduce Scotty back into the canvas and let Lauren deal with an issue with him. I hope that before she goes this route she takes a look at the ratings for the day of the Harvest Festival and see's that the show did extremely well and how everyone loved seeing them together and away from Sharon/Fisher's.

Edited November 1, 200916 yr by Rosey

i would be sad if this is true.

i love lauren, and tracey is fantastic.

however, if they chose to kill her off i would be ok with it if they gave her a good arc and killed her via cancer or something like that.

killing her to prop michael/phyliss? no.

Bergman's next.

Watch.

Don't you just see it coming? I'm paying careful attentionto the way they write Jack now. I already noticed that his time has been reduced then his confession to Victor (though I loved the scene and PB in it) just gives me this eery feeling of we are headed towards some open ended exit. I wonder if they are skipping JC......

Bergman's next.

Watch.

I'm sure they're ready to give his dressing room to Billy Miller and putting Billy's name on his parking spot.

They try to do what they can to undercut Sony to support their vets like hiring Eileen, Lauralee, Jenn Gareis, Heather & Don.

Sony even ordered Latham to kill Dru to keep Victoria from making the jump so The Bells are at least trying to reciprocate some of the loyalty their cast has shown them over the years.

But there's only so much they can do with Sony being so cheap.

She wrote out Eric, Mel & Kristoff when she didn't want to so it's not like she's specifically targeting CLB or Tracey.

I don't give Maria a pass on her crap writing but the reality is she's dealing with a show overloaded with vets with huge salaries & given Sony's interference plus Daytime's current climate cuts have to be made.

Oh, I don't think she is specifically targeting just CLB and TEB either, although along with the Winters (minus Lily) they have been the most neglected. I do think she is targeting certain vets. I guess the most shocking for me would be the way she has written for MTS. For the last year, she has really been a target, and this is Nikki Newman for goodness sakes.

I guess what I find classless is that I had people e-mailing me with information about them writing off Lauren last June and July to warn me about the shows plans. And this is exactly what they told me would happen, minus the Phyllis-Michael rumor. I posted one thread on SONY which lasted one day and all my posts were pulled on the subject with no reason why. I got the message, so did not continue posting them hoping they were false rumors.

If they want to write off Lauren, why not personally talk to TEB about their plans and their reasoning. This happened to her in the past on B&B in the late 90s and she still stayed loyal to the Bells and their shows. She is not going to bolt and will play out the story because she is a professional. I just think after 25 years she deserves to be told by the Bells what they are planning and not have to deal with rumors for months.

As for the budget. Yes, cuts have to be made, but Tracey Bregman is not costing them much and in addition to cutting costs why is MAB continuing to write in more new characters who are not needed. It does not seem to fit in with the argument that all this is happening because they have to cut the budget. They seem to have carte blanche for cutting vets because of the budget issue but what about all her other hires this year?

Maybe I am being idealistic, but I just think a supposedly classy family like the Bells could be handling these tough times in a better way.

Edited November 1, 200916 yr by lmfan

Don't you just see it coming? I'm paying careful attentionto the way they write Jack now. I already noticed that his time has been reduced then his confession to Victor (though I loved the scene and PB in it) just gives me this eery feeling of we are headed towards some open ended exit. I wonder if they are skipping JC......

Of course they are skipping JC. She is 81, a personal favorite of Maria Bell, and nearly one of the original cast members. They are using and will continue to use Jeanne Cooper to support all their new hires.

i would be sad if this is true.

i love lauren, and tracey is fantastic.

however, if they chose to kill her off i would be ok with it if they gave her a good arc and killed her via cancer or something like that.

killing her to prop michael/phyliss? no.

They had the chance to do that. I thought that they could have given the ovarian cancer story to Lauren and make it a Lauren and Michael story. Ovarian cancer is more prevalent in women Lauren's age and would have played better. Not only are they good actors, but the audience feels such a connection to them, as a couple, that watching them fight this cancer would have pulled at the heart strings. And unlike with Lily, we would have not known if Lauren would survive.

But this is where we see the failing of this regime. They wrote this cancer story for Lily and Cane just so they could absolve him of his lies and set up a surrogate story and probably another triangle, likely with Mac. It was a fail because MAB gave it to an actress who could not handle it and now they are going to try to miraculous heal Lily.

Just like with the Phillip return from the dead, there is little foresight into how these stories will play out and who is best to play them. When even Jeanne Cooper doesn't understand why the Phillip story was written, MAB has a problem.

And none of these poor writing choices have anything to do with budget issues.

Edited November 1, 200916 yr by lmfan

Her storylines border on the lines of Passions because they're so dark and unbelievable. Fans have been saying for the last year that she's been with the show what they want and many of those requests have been for Likey and Phick to have storylines without them being centered around Sharon or the Fishers and yet she continues to sholve Nick and Sharon along with Gloria/Kevin/Jeff down our throats whenever either of these couples are on. In the case of Nick & Sharon you would think that the writers didn't have them together that long with the amount of Shick pimping that MAB does with them but in reality they were together for 10 straight years. I guess she feels that Nick and Sharon fans should have more then that which is unreal!

She doesn't even know how to write for the characters she favors. The writing for Nick made him look like a world class douchebag and manwhore, and Sharon has lost any personality beyond being degraded for the men in her life, or her bed, at the time. They think they can just say, "Oh, Cassie is dead," or now, "Oh, Cassie replacement is dead," and that's all the justification they need. Now we even have the grief over a dead child being sped by so we can have her get it on with the man who took her baby in the first place.

And then Katherine, the patron saint of Genoa City, with a photo shoot to tell us as much.

It's one thing to continually diminish and dump longtime actors and characters, but the writing for basically everyone is rotgut.

That's the mark of bad writers and producers.

Edited November 1, 200916 yr by CarlD2

It was a fail because MAB gave it to an actress who could not handle it and now they are going to try to miraculous heal Lily.

You mean by Cane magic stick.

Wow I have been reading all the opinions and I have to agree that something is a foot, unfortunately I don't think Maria knows how to finish a story, they are all plots with no ending in sight, she has managed to damage all the long time vets in some way or the other. For the last year we have had basically all the vets involved in the Sharon drama, Nick is indeed seeing as a douche bag, I think the biggest damage to a long time character than I have seen in quite a long time. I would be sick to see Lauren killed off in an attempt to put Michael and Phyllis together, they work so well as friends and confidant, I love their friendship.

As for EB he had gotten so dark that I am glad he is gone for a while. I hate that KSJ has been backburned, an Emmy award winning actor, who could be paired with anyone on the canvas, while Maria might be trying to live up to the Bell legacy, she is failing, one thing Bill Bell loved was chemistry, he believed in it, it was one of the key elements in his bible when approached to write the "Innocent Years".

They try to do what they can to undercut Sony to support their vets like hiring Eileen, Lauralee, Jenn Gareis, Heather & Don.

Sony even ordered Latham to kill Dru to keep Victoria from making the jump so The Bells are at least trying to reciprocate some of the loyalty their cast has shown them over the years.

But there's only so much they can do with Sony being so cheap.

She wrote out Eric, Mel & Kristoff when she didn't want to so it's not like she's specifically targeting CLB or Tracey.

I don't give Maria a pass on her crap writing but the reality is she's dealing with a show overloaded with vets with huge salaries & given Sony's interference plus Daytime's current climate cuts have to be made.

Thank you for this cogent, clear explanation.

Anyone watching the current "farewell" to Victor--where he's going out with a bang not a whimper--can clearly see MAB's trying to save the character and position for his return. She also wrote out Stafford, but brought her back asap.

I still think that dialogue I quoted a few weeks ago--Kay telling Jack that the glory days of John Abbott and Jabot being a family-run business are over--was a message to EVERYONE. MAB may say in NB's interviews "my show, my vision", but we're clearly seeing that is not the case.

I also agree that there is some plain crappy plotting going on, and some major issues of continuity, and even some poor planning. That falls on MAB and her team. But this contract stuff...not so much.

Look at the Thom Bierdz situation. Do you really feel MAB is such a sh!tty storyteller she would have brought him back from the dead...only to instantly backburner him and then write him out??? Uh uh. Anyone can see that either negative audience reaction, or negative reaction from CBS/Sony, is at the root of this. Even INCOMPETENT writers don't do it this badly. This feels so fully like a "too many cooks" solution.

Where is bellcurve?

Thank you for this cogent, clear explanation.

Anyone watching the current "farewell" to Victor--where he's going out with a bang not a whimper--can clearly see MAB's trying to save the character and position for his return. She also wrote out Stafford, but brought her back asap.

I still think that dialogue I quoted a few weeks ago--Kay telling Jack that the glory days of John Abbott and Jabot being a family-run business are over--was a message to EVERYONE. MAB may say in NB's interviews "my show, my vision", but we're clearly seeing that is not the case.

Oh, please. Not again... Maria apologetics again...

Look at the Thom Bierdz situation. Do you really feel MAB is such a sh!tty storyteller she would have brought him back from the dead...only to instantly backburner him and then write him out??? Uh uh. Anyone can see that either negative audience reaction, or negative reaction from CBS/Sony, is at the root of this. Even INCOMPETENT writers don't do it this badly. This feels so fully like a "too many cooks" solution.

Don't tell... She is fully to blame for crap she wrote. A better writer would have known how to get the best out of this labyrinthine, complicated situation and write something with some sense in it.

Look at the Thom Bierdz situation. Do you really feel MAB is such a sh!tty storyteller she would have brought him back from the dead...only to instantly backburner him and then write him out??? Uh uh. Anyone can see that either negative audience reaction, or negative reaction from CBS/Sony, is at the root of this. Even INCOMPETENT writers don't do it this badly. This feels so fully like a "too many cooks" solution.

The thing with that storyline is it fulfilled the show's goal. The show wanted to wrap up the mystery over Cane's background. They wanted to finally settle the people who felt like Cane was a fraud. They wanted to make sure Cane still came across as a good guy. Then, they wanted to bring in Chance.

They did all of that. The rest was filler, a way to get press and to make Thom Bierdz more likely to return.

The timing of that story was way too fast to have negative audience reaction make an impact. Every major beat of the story - Phillip's return, Cane's exposure, Phillip coming out, the Chancellors accepting him and forgiving Cane - all happened before the show would have really known how viewers felt. There was nothing left hanging. Everything else was just fan speculation -- nothing on the show ever suggested in any way that Phillip would get a love life, or a storyline of his own, or even that he would share significant airtime with his loved ones.

Do I believe they ever had any plans for Phillip beyond this? No, I don't. We have expectations they don't.

It's the same as Adam/Rafe. That story came and went in no time at all. The main goal was accomplished -- to show us that Adam was so sick in the head, he would pretend to be gay in order to get away with his crimes.

MAB is writing for fans only in the most surface way. She gives what people say they want, with nothing underneath. So the people who wanted Jill and Katherine unrelated got what they wanted. The people who wanted Cane unrelated got what they wanted. And after that, MAB moved on. The show had many other priorities.

Edited November 1, 200916 yr by CarlD2

Further more, the Thom idea must have originated from her. So if you're going to bring back a character, you must think up a reason for doing so. And something that looks like a "story".

And if the audience was mad, it is because it was awfully written. Among other things. Don't turn this the other way around.

The thing with that storyline is it fulfilled the show's goal. The show wanted to wrap up the mystery over Cane's background. They wanted to finally settle the people who felt like Cane was a fraud. They wanted to make sure Cane still came across as a good guy. Then, they wanted to bring in Chance.

They did all of that. The rest was filler, a way to get press and to make Thom Bierdz more likely to return.

The timing of that story was way too fast to have negative audience reaction make an impact. Every major beat of the story - Phillip's return, Cane's exposure, Phillip coming out, the Chancellors accepting him and forgiving Cane - all happened before the show would have really known how viewers felt. There was nothing left hanging. Everything else was just fan speculation -- nothing on the show ever suggested in any way that Phillip would get a love life, or a storyline of his own, or even that he would share significant airtime with his loved ones.

That makes a lot of sense. But it just is appalling to me that they would undo this major history for a short-term thing.

Do I believe they ever had any plans for Phillip beyond this? No, I don't. We have expectations they don't.

It's the same as Adam/Rafe. That story came and went in no time at all. The main goal was accomplished -- to show us that Adam was so sick in the head, he would pretend to be gay in order to get away with his crimes.

MAB is writing for fans only in the most surface way. She gives what people say they want, with nothing underneath. So the people who wanted Jill and Katherine unrelated got what they wanted. The people who wanted Cane unrelated got what they wanted. And after that, MAB moved on. The show had many other priorities.

So, I buy what you are saying, up to a point.

Thom Bierdz has basically confirmed in the press that there is no story for him. I'm guessing he and Nina disappear, and do Beau Kazer/Brock style reappearances. Which is, again to quote Jeanne, so "unnecessary".

But it does seem to me not-random that both of these dropped storylines are the much-heralded "gay" storylines.

Also, it seems interesting to me that Scott Hamner (brought in by Sony-beloved LML) seemed to understand that there would be no "gay storylines" months earlier...even while MAB was still in the press saying a rainbow coalition was still coming to Y&R.

Left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing? Or Sony-plant knows the real scoop...MAB is a Bell figurehead but (contrary to her own press pronouncements) she does not get the last word??