Great Women of Soaps

[Leia]

Nothing is better than this Dominique versus Alexis catfight. I used to think fer sure daytime would produce this.

I've grown up now so here are my votes. But long live memories as I don't think I've ever seen anything like this in daytime.

Y&R

Diane Jenkins

Lauren Fenmore

Drucilla Winters (The potential in this clip of Dru versus Nikki Newman and a touch of Phyllis and Dru "I'm here to do a J O B I'm here to do a j-o-b which rivals Dominque v Alexis

B&B

Stephanie Forrester

Brooke Logan

ATWT

Lucinda Walsh

GL

Vanessa Lewis

Alexandra Spaulding

Carmen Santos

OLTL

Viktoria Lord Banks

[EricMontreal22]

It's amazing how tv went from Sat being the biggest night to the least--but people just don't watch tv on Sats like they used to. I guess cuz tv used to be more appointment viewing? You couldn't depend on DVDs or even repeats, you could wathc with your friends, etc. I'm out nearly every Friday and baiscally every Sat so that suits me fine but it is too bad the networks have just given up on these days.

I actually (I hope Chuck Pratt doesn't hear this) liked Titans, or at least felt it had potential to be a new Dynasty. I think the boy you're talking about was Kevin Zegers (from Transamerica, etc, who back then I felt a bit creepy finding cute cuz he was 16 and I was 19). Not sure if I'd care for it at all now, especially since I've actually SEEN Dynasty since then thanks to DVD but I was disappointed it was canceled so quickly (CBS really trumped it up too--the irony is at the time, 1999 or whatever, the zeitgeist was NOT into the idea of that kinda show--big glamour etc-0-whereas only a few years later it probably would have done at the least a bit better)

[EricMontreal22]

Glad to hear that--she was beyond outstanding and perfect for Sunset Blvd. I later saw the MUCH scaled down American tour with petula Clark who was surprisingly *awful*

[EricMontreal22]

You read Wharton? I'm impressed--for a while she was my fave author, basically an easier to read Henry James thematically. I also think Scorsese's movie of Age is oine of the finest "costume dramas" ever (it's interesting he calls it one of his most violent movies--not cuz of gore but emotional violence).

I agree. I thought DSM had potential but I agree it was too tongue in cheek (and never could find the right tone)--certainly the cast was largely there (Jill Clayburgh as a matriarch? heaven). I think it's because networks think that audiences now are too self aware for something liek Dynasty, not realizing that the campa ctually works better when it's played straight. It's a little like how every new soap has to have some sort of almost post modern gimmick shoved onto it. Then again the fact that shows like Titans (which I felt was trying to be a new Dynasty) and Pacific Palisades (which I thought was trying to be a new Knots Landing) even Pasadena were all big flops probably makes the safe network heads seek shows that are more knowingly campy, or whatever. Of course they never think about other reasons they coulda been flops

It'd be fun if one of the cable networks tried a big old 80s style soap opera again--I know HBo and Showtime etc get off on being "cool" but they could almost be even more cool by going back to something like that.

[EricMontreal22]

If you cried at Mirth, don't read Ethan Fromme lol (though ti's much less focused on high society).

You're right. Another irony is I think they don't realize that a lot of teens LIKE to watch adult characters. Sure the original 90210 etc were popular cuz of young teen audiences, but I bet a lot of teens watched Melrose Place as well. When you're that age you wanna see and fantasize about what ones a bit older than you (I mean it's like Archie comics--they're mainly read by kids fantasizing in a way about being teenagers, when you're actually Archie's age you prob have grown past ther comics, or Saved by the Bell). That's one reason when they refocus soaps on very young characters it doesn't really make the younger generation watch more--they watched for teen stories sure but I think they also watch for the adults.

[EricMontreal22]

I think they had worn out their welcome (just as Melrose did) by the end of the 90s and as you say they prob weren't that good, but things swing around.

On the other hand I think B&S is a different matter altogether, it feels liek they were trying for a mix of a rich person's show with the "real" and talky and less "soapy" probs of a Herskovitz/Zwick show (where of course Ken Olin who is an EP comes from) liek thirtysomething, My So Called Life, and Once and Again. While I watch B&S nd ave had times I really enjoy it, I think that's part fo the reason it doesn't work for me--i LOVED those Her/Zwick shows and was sad their new one wasn't picked up, but it's like B&S wants to have the best of both worlds and frankly I have a hard time sympathizing with their problems because I know just how much political power and money they have. That wasn't an issue for Dynasty or Dallas.

[EricMontreal22]

The promos definetely made it into the new Dynasty--I think they basically said "Dynasty for the new millenium (ie from the producer of Dynsty, not of Melrose) even if it was created/head written by Charles Pratt who was behind Melrose's highest rated years and Models Inc (I thought he did the Knots throwback Pacific Palisades, but I guess not). It was totally NBC mishandling it, people were really over these kinds of shows (even if they were diff) cuz of MP and 90210 ennui and I think ti was the wrong time in terms of what people wanted--the zeitgest was much more into these broad camp shows 2 or so years later (which is when the Footballers Wives remake was planned isn't it)?

Anyway I'm glad someone else liked Titans--I thought by the end of its short run it was on the right path and I actually thought the cast was a good mix of the typical 80s soap cast--strong older actors, some less strong pretty ex soap stars, and people in between

Speaking of--I love Footballers, well the first three or so seasons and love Tanya Tucker but I'm not sure she's quite an Alexis. She's MUCH more willing to slum it and seems to even come from a rougher background than those 80s OTT characters.

[EricMontreal22]

Jessica is also in the 90210 reboot isn't she? Or is she already gone--when I watched the early eps her and her drunken ex star grandma character were by far the best parts of the show. But yes she woulda made a GREAT choice for the role back then.

Berrenger's is one of several prime time soaps I've always been curious about--not even credits seem to exist on youtube. The others are the 1975 Upstairs Downstairs ( afave of mine) remake set in 1920's boston, Beacon Hill, the others are Emerald Point NAS, Berrenger's, Secrets of Midland Heights (a title that doesn't exactly role of the tongue) and Four Corners from the late 90s.

[EricMontreal22]

What the heck is GLOW? LOL Wiki turns up nothing.

So many of those sitcoms when I was growing up (think Blossom) are now unwatchable but a few are gems IMHO--and I agree that 2 and a Half Men is a VERY mean spirited show--I really don't get its appeal--and it's advertised as a family sitcom?? Wha?. (Funny as Chuck Lorre's other shows liek Dharma and Greg and even now Big Bnag Theory are a lot less so).

[DRW50]

GLOW is Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling.

They're all champions in the ring. (and Spanish Red is a goddess!!)

[EricMontreal22]

All things considered I think Liz still looks kinda decent... lol

But I agree with you. Certainly I could never see Joan having played Desiree in the Sondheim musical A Little Night Music like Liz did (granted the movie isn't the best but the casting was spot on--Joan doesn't have the underlying vulnerability) or in her younger days a character like Angela Vickers in Place in the Sun (Actually I always have wondered why a soap, to my knowledge, hasn't stolen the storyline of A Place in the Sun/or Dreisser's original novel American Tragedy. But without the best direction and Monty Clift and Liz to make you care and get the characters I guess it would be hard to have a hero you both sympathize with an find heinous for murdering his pregnant lover to have a life with the rich pretty girl LOL--on a soap nowadays it'd prob completely backfire).

HAHA~ I don't know what to say

[EricMontreal22]

You can always find good and bad examples--recently we've had things like Buffy and Sydney on Alias (funny though both of those are action heroes) which are IMHO a long way from Cahrlie's Angels or even the 70s Bionic Woman.

But it is true that's it's kinda scary thinking that young girls who maybe would idoliza Princess Di in the 80s and see her humanitarian work in this generation would maybe be idolizing Paris or the Kardashians

[EricMontreal22]

LOL and prob why I'm far more drawn to her than Collins (who, don't get me wrong is *great*)

[DRW50]

You haven't even seen Divine's Russian twin, Matilda the Hun, and of course, who can beat Jackie Stallone the rap star?

[EricMontreal22]

Spot on (I forgot she was marrited to Newley--wow that musta had its ups and downs). Funny that The Bitch and its sequel prob helped her get the role on Dynasty in a way...

I hate this argument and often it's directed at female creations created by gay men. The girls from Sex and the City (even if I'm not a big fan) come to mind, but so do the classic leading ladies from Tennessee Williams, or (tieing this back to Liz and the comments on Virginia Woolfe) Albee.

I find the statement that these women were written as men (or campy gay drag queens) offensive in *so* many ways.