Guiding Light discussion thread

[bboy875]

I don't know what year Long and Hammer divorced, but she did return to the show in 1987 as Pamela K. Long instead of Pamela Long-Hammer, which I think she may have still been credited as when she left in 86. I also vaguely remember a digest pic of Jay and Beverley, in I think 85, and it mentioned that he and Pam were expecting a child, so again, I'm not sure when they divorced.

[bboy875]

I was no longer an everyday viewer when Beth/Coop got together, I do remember Blake trying to get with him, just not sure if he was with Ashley or secretly seeing Beth at this point.

[soapfan770]

I had actually remember kind of hoping that GL would actually like to see its 75th back in 2007/2008 just for the fact of making three quarters of a century on the air after the nice little 70th anniversary even though the show was horrific. Alas here's a toast to GL on what would have been its 75th anniversary.

I was never quite sure how to categorize the late Margaret Gwenver on the show as a cast-member. I don't think she ever was on contract was she? I think she was last on in 2003/2004 or so but first appeared in 1979. Aside from getting caught up in the Rita/Roger mess, getting caught up delivering babies and stuck in paternity scandals I don't think she ever had storyline of her own except maybe for her affair with Mindy's evil ex Will Jeffries.

[DRW50]

Was she there when Reva had her baby in 2009?

IMDB credits her up to 2007.

I never knew she was with Will Jeffries.

[saynotoursoap]

Pam and Jay were partners but not actually married. She became pregnant by him on Texas, and partly because of P&G and partly because of their child, she was billed as Pamela Long Hammer, but she never married him in a legal service.

[soapfan770]

I don't think so. Dr. Sedwick was involved with Jeffries when he first came to town before getting involved with Mindy and going evil in the whole Sonni/Solita story.

[bboy875]

Wow I never knew this! Thanks for the clarification. Since joining this site a few months ago and reading current posts and archives, I've learned so much backstage info about this show I've treasured since childhood! Thanks!

[saynotoursoap]

P&G wanted to diminish the Bauers and had for some time. Even under Marland, the Bauers were more or less supporting characters. Mike stood around with Bert wringing their hands about Hope. Hope's story had less to do with her family than it did about her insistence that poor Alan was a lovely, misunderstood man. Ed was led astray yet again by seductress Vanessa before finding boring love with much too perky Maureen (as played by Ellen Dolan). P&G dumped Mart Hulswit, whom both the Dobsons and Marland thought too staid and bland. Unlike with the Dobsons, who pulled Hillary into the Roger Thorpe web with Holly and Ed, under Marland you hardly knew that Hillary was a Bauer.

I feel that Pam Long in particular, and to a degree Gail Kobe, are too often unfairly blamed as moving to GL with an agenda to ditch the Bauers and add their favorites. I know Pam, and I can tell you that with her, this was not the case. Don Stewart and Peter Simon both quit. Charita Bauer died. The only two who were written out sans a valid reason were Hope and Hillary, though Hope's departure was left open so that she could return. Through different writers and producers, it simply never happened. No one could reach a concensus about what to do with Hillary, hence her death. I agree that it was a mistake and unfortunate given the other departures As for Charita, if Long and Kobe truly wanted to dismantle the Bauers, they easily could have written Bert out entirely when Charita's diabetes forced her to have a leg amputation and lengthy recuperation. Instead, Pam wrote the illness into the story, unlike the writers and producers who coldly dumped Michael Zaslow a decade later rather than address his illness. Also, Charita hid the seriousness of her illness. Everyone that I have talked to who knew her were shocked by her death. She was very ill for a long time, but kept it secret.

What I find curious is the negative reaction to the Lewis family as displacing the Bauers, as the Reardon family did the same thing. Also, the Lewises were actually created by Doug Marland (even Billy and H.B. were mentioned as early as 1981 and would have eventually appeared without Long/Kobe). Many people wail about Reva and the Lewis clan, but I remember having the same animosity toward Nola and her family when they were front and center seemingly every day beginning in 1980. People forget that it is largely a matter of personal preference. As much as I admire Doug Marland's philosophy regarding history and respecting the audience, I personally enjoyed GL much better under the Dobsons. Long, and Curlee. In fact, GL was probably my least favorite writing stint of his. And despite my own criticisms of Pam Long's writing, some of her stories were very contrived and ill-conceived, at least she wrote strong characters who had a lot of heart, and that's what I like in a soap. Curlee probably was the best combination of the two. It is unfortunate that she was saddled with Jill Farren Phelps, who was more interested in turning the show into a hip, cookie-cutter showcase for her bestest friends.

[saynotoursoap]

I didn't either until many, many years later. Their children are now adults, and I believe Pam has admitted to being Jay's partner in name only in several interviews. Still, if you search for general biographies online, I believe they are generally documented as "divorced". To my knowledge, there is no animosity between Pam and Jay, and she no doubt kept Fletcher on GL to ensure that Jay could help support the children.

[DRW50]

I think the reason there is more animosity towards the Lewises is they're flashier, they represent more of an era. The Reardons, aside from Nola, seemed more low-key, and I guess filled some gaps in the canvas (Rita leaving and Maureen becoming Ed's leading lady, Kelly being the only junior leading man on the show until Tony). I have to admit from what I've seen of them I don't love them either - Bea just seems kind of silly and it's tough to believe she was supposed to have worked her fingers to the bone, and at times it's tough to believe Maureen/Nola/Tony are related (or Jim, later on). But GL was losing so many prominent characters around 1980 that Nola did fill a gap.

Long probably gets credit for the Lewises because Josh was so different under Marland.

I do think a lot of people loved the Lewises - HB was always a popular character, Josh had many fans. Billy was written in and out but certainly I loved Billy and I doubt I was alone in that. I think some people have a lot of animosity towards Reva and blame Reva for taking up too much airtime, being burnt out in terms of story, and being front and center at a time when so much about GL was changing. I think it's also because a lot of the Lewis stories seemed to become a big mess around the mid-80's, like the Infinity saga, Reva being with every Lewis, Vanessa being so demoted, etc.

One thing which bothers me about that era of GL is how they phased out some of the more thoughtful and subtle leading ladies, like Amanda, Hope, Trish. I think GL worked best when there was a balance between this mix of peace and neuroses, and some of the larger-than-life histrionics with Reva or the Spauldings.

I guess all this happening within the space of a year, two years, puts more of the blame on Long and Kobe, even if P&G deserves the blame.

I just have never understood the Hillary death, especially at that particular time. I think that is what gets the most notice.

When I think back to GL of the early 80's I try to remember that what some of us may see as a golden age was far from it to some viewers. I know in SOD some would write in complaining during Marland's run about all the disco scenes, about older actors being phased out, about being sick of youth, etc.

Edited January 26, 2012 by CarlD2

[soapfan770]

Would it be fair to say that Reva became the curse and cure for GL?

[saynotoursoap]

Carl, your post provided fodder for my response, thought my comments are not actually directed at you personally. Sometimes I see so much love for Marland and the Reardons and maligning of Long and her characters that I feel the need to counterpoint. I certainly did not hate Marland -I watched during his reign and there were many things that I liked- however, I feel that later writers had good traits, as well. As for the flashiness of the Lewises, I suppose this is one reason that I did like them. In many ways, the Reardons were too low-key for my taste. I did not find any of them particularly compelling or dramatic. In my opinion, Bea lacked the maternal warmth that Marland created so well in Emma Snyder, or perhaps Lee Lawson was simply miscast. Whatever the reason, Bea swilling beer in the kitchen and constantly wailing, "I just don't understand Nola" did not capture my imagination. I thought Greg Beecroft was hot, and if he were gay in real life, I would have done him in a second, but to me Tony was typical of Doug Marland's affinity for muscular young men who were either weak-willed, vapid, or stupid. For the most part, I had no interest in Maureen until Ellen Parker assumed the role. Watching old episodes now, Ellen Dolan's giddiness in scenes makes Mo look like she is either drunk or stoned.

In my opinion, he was vastly improved under Long. While Pam's stories often lacked the logic and complexity of Marland's, I do feel that she had a better understanding of male characters. Josh was a spoiled, one-note playboy under Marland, not to mention the fact that Robert Newman was one of the most inexperienced actors I had ever witnessed in daytime. Josh became more complex and ambiguous under Long's pen, and Bob Newman had an opportunity to learn and grow as an actor. I always thought he deserved a special Emmy as the most improved actor in daytime, because his early work truly was horrific, but he eventually developed a very easy, natural style.

I will not comment on Reva, because enough has been written on that subject already. However, I do want to make a comment about Vanessa. I have read your posts and the posts of others regarding the "defusing" of Vanessa as Chris Schemering described, and I have to disagree. I feel that Vanessa as originally created was a one-dimensional carbon copy of Another World's Iris. In fact, I so disliked Maeve Kinkead's early performances that I remember wanting Anna Stuart to remain in the part when Kinkead took maternity leave in 1981. I thought Kinkead took the "Daddy's girl" routine too far. Under Long, Vanessa became more vulnerable, more complex. Less stereotypical. Though others hated the transformation, I enjoyed watching her carefully controlled facade crack as the responsibilities of being a wife and mother were at odds with her selfish nature. Like Bob Newman, Kinkead grew immensely as a performer with the new material. It is not surprising that she was awarded with her first Emmy nomination for the drug addiction storyline. Also, I think that softening her, mixing the vulnerable with the scheming and tougher side, ensured a longer run for the character. I'm not sure Marland's version of Vanessa would have lasted until the final telecast.

We are in complete agreement with this, especially Trish. Rebecca Hollen had tremendous warmth and grace, and she provided a nice counterpoint to the brassy antics of the rest of the Lewis clan. In some ways, I felt that losing her was worse than the loss of the Bauers. If you are going to keep a family around and make them centerstage, you should at least have one sane, soft voice in the bunch. Amanda was interesting because she went through several changes before she left. The original concept of the sheltered, repressed daughter, basically held captive by a domineering mother, was intriguing. I liked the Dobsons' version of her. Marland never seemed to get a good handle on the character. First, he turned her into a spitefull bitch, then she was reduced to a fragile, neurotic mess, though that was precipated in part by Kathleen Cullen's maternity leave. The one thing that Pat Falken Smith and L. Virginia Browne did right was to make Amanda more sympathetic. The scenes on the oil rig, trapped by a storm, were very unsual and gave Cullen some unsual things to play, but it was shortlived due to her sudden axing. Pam Long brought Amanda back in December 1987 during the Spaudling takeover story, and though she appeared only briefly, I liked that version of Amanda. She was strong, confident, and yet also loving and content. It is too bad that Long did not keep her around longer, as I would have been interested to see how she developed. Of course, the character was completey destroyed years later by Megan McTavish -or another idiot writer- in that tawdry Springfield Madam story, not to mention the beyond inane "twist" of Amanda being Brandon's daughter instead of Alan's. Toby Poser was an excellent performer, IMO, but she and the characterization were so wrong for what had been established. Finally, I liked Hillary, too and especially Marsha Clark's goodnatured portrayal, but Hillary was only half Bauer. She was not Bert's daughter, and therefore, maybe they felt that she was the most expendable. I was watching when Bill Bauer was resurrected, and there was an enormous backlash from veteran fans over Bill and Hillary's arrival. Fans were vehemently angry that Bill had faked his death and fathered children with another woman. It is funny how very conservative viewers were even as late as 1977.

Those were the things that I disliked. Of course, I loved Marland's mysteries; they always hooked me. The Carrie story was fascinating. I loved Diane's machinations and obsession with Alan, who saw her as nothing more than a valued assistant. But, most of all, I loved the community feeling of the show. Marland, more so than any other writer in daytime, really knew how to make a fictional town feel like a real place, and he populated it with characters who seemed to honestly care about one another. I don't think GL was perfect then, but despite my criticisms -yes, it was a far, far cry better than the last 15 years or so of the series.

[Paul Raven]

Fascinating discussion.

One question that I hope someone will answer.Were Hillary and her brother (Paul?) the biological children of Bill? If so ,how was that explained? I thought it was stated onscreen that Bill had been gone for about 10 years.Am I mistaken? Hillary was supposed to be early 20's when she arrived,so was it actually stated that it was more like 20 years?

Or had Bill and Simone been carrying on this affair during his previous time on the show?

Which writers killed off Bill? Did Ed Bryce want to leave,or was it thought to be a dramatic plot for the show?

[DRW50]

Pam Long/Richard Culliton killed off Bill, I think.

What always confuses me about fan reaction to Bill's return is that from the 50's and 60's stuff I've seen, especially the 60's stuff, Bill seems like a very weak man. I think leaving his family was perfectly in character.

You're right about the changes in Vanessa which made her less of a bitch. What I meant more in terms of demotion was that last year or so when she mostly just seemed to say "Oh Billy", which I think caused Maeve to leave for a while.

[DRW50]

What was the oil rig material with Amanda?

I was also going to ask, what did you think of the show between the time Marland left and Long arrived? I know Schemering said L. Virignia Browne brought the ratings up during her tenure. Did you think anything interesting was going on? All I know of this time was the endless saga with Mark and Rebecca and so on.