On 8/24/2025 at 3:10 PM, MLH said:

 

 

@P.J. To me Holly has always been all over the place.  Maureen did a great job, but I got whiplash with Holly. She deserved to be fired and yet the show acted like Roger was in the wrong. 

This is my take on Holly .

I think she really struggled with admitting to herself that Roger was the one for her and the one she wanted to be with, despite it all. Oftentimes, I felt like the character was always searching and grasping onto whatever or whoever she could in an effort to convince herself that she was over Roger and didn't need or want him. I think that is why Holly always remained a bit of a mystery to me.  I loved the character because Holly was unlike any other character on Guiding Light or on the CBS lineup that I watched at the time. 

Annette

Edited August 26Aug 26 by GL Oldtimer

5 hours ago, MLH said:

That scene was so STUPID to me. The writing was horrible!  If Michael was healthy, he wouldn't be able to save that whole stupid storyline. Could you see him pretending to fix the stupid house for her?  Seriously so dumb. 

Like I told you, it was like the show had an agreement where Amanda and Roger were barely in a scene together and yet were engaged to be married. I think it was to save money. 

BTW, what was the obsession with this show and Switzerland?  Couldn't even get enough money to film there once! Has this show ever filmed overseas?

@P.J.  Liz brought that up in one of those Zoom interviews. 

The way Blake was acting, that was the least of her saying something stupid.  What grown woman would see Ross kissing Amanda and not just not walk right in and bust it up?  No, she goes and sleeps with pathetic Rick who she never acted attracted to. 

@Lujack4Ever  Phillip got a huge funeral and Roger got yet another out of the blue son that didn't sound or look anything like him!  Always pissed me off when Blake and Holly acted like he sounded like Roger and he didn't sound anything like him let alone look like him.  Roger had the worst funeral ever.  

BTW, did Hart have a funeral? 

Well, Michael sold Roger having compassion for Vanessa in spite of their history in those scenes in Switzerland. Maybe not enough to show up and hammer some nails later, but in some private moment between them. Even though it makes zero sense for Vanessa to even speak to him after the crap he pulled on Henry.

Yes, GL had filmed overseas. But not since 1982. Although honestly, has any soap filmed outside the US since the 90's, other than B&B?

Did Hart really deserve a funeral? The magic ball says....NO.

I'm not sure the show was obsessed with Switzerland, but it was somewhere Vanessa had gone before. I believe she went to private schools there, and when she walked out on Billy in '84, she spent the last months of her pregnancy there.

Edited August 26Aug 26 by P.J.

2 hours ago, GL Oldtimer said:

This is my take on Holly .

I think she really struggled with admitting to herself that Roger was the one for her and the one she wanted to be with, despite it all. Oftentimes, I felt like the character was always searching and grasping onto whatever or whoever she could in an effort to convince herself that she was over Roger and didn't need or want him. I think that is why Holly always remained a bit of a mystery to me.  I loved the character because Holly was unlike any other character on Guiding Light or on the CBS lineup that I watched at the time. 

Annette

I admit, I'm not sure what drives Holly. I don't think she wanted to be with Roger really. I think she understood that it was an obsession, and not love. But when she has chances at love, she thinks she doesn't deserves it, so she self-sabotages and gets more obsessed with Roger, if that makes any sense.

On 8/24/2025 at 5:26 PM, P.J. said:

Jenna was one of those over-the-top characters that just never quite fit on the canvas, no matter how hard they tried. I know the writers tried selling Van and Jenna's friendship, but not even for Henry's sake would Van have befriended that woman. Not been a complete bitch to her....sure. Support her over Nadine? YEP. But more? Nope, not 'Nessa.

 

To be honest, during the Curlee era in the early 90s... GL veered dangerously close to the sterile and repressed quality that Douglas Marland had turned ATWT turned into.

Having an over the top character like Jenna made the show a bit more interesting and different... and her not fitting in was part of the appeal of the character in her first year or so on the show.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

I admit, I'm not sure what drives Holly. I don't think she wanted to be with Roger really. I think she understood that it was an obsession, and not love. But when she has chances at love, she thinks she doesn't deserves it, so she self-sabotages and gets more obsessed with Roger, if that makes any sense.

I just didn't get why the show made Roger the bad guy with Holly being fired. She wasn't doing her job and was being passive aggressive with Gilly.  Yes, it made sense after finding out about Blake and Ross, but it just dragged on and on and on. 

@P.J. Speaking of Hart, I watched Frank Grillo's doing an interview on Michael Rosenbaum's podcast and he looked so different!  Obviously took steroids and he admitted to being an alcoholic. I didn't like him; he seems so slimy to me. 

As for Roger and Vanessa, he wanted to know the secret she had on Alexandra.  That episode with everyone going over there basically to screw in a light bulb and move some furniture was so unrealistic. Roger was becoming Grandpa Thorpe...IMO.

Edited August 26Aug 26 by MLH

3 hours ago, GL Oldtimer said:

This is my take on Holly .

I think she really struggled with admitting to herself that Roger was the one for her and the one she wanted to be with, despite it all. Oftentimes, I felt like the character was always searching and grasping onto whatever or whoever she could in an effort to convince herself that she was over Roger and didn't need or want him. I think that is why Holly always remained a bit of a mystery to me.  I loved the character because Holly was unlike any other character on Guiding Light or on the CBS lineup that I watched at the time. 

Annette

Yeah.. that was one of the reasons why Holly would turn to drinking and/or depression... because she couldn't admit to herself that she still wanted Roger despite the fact that he raped her and tortured her.

The fact I never understood was that fans wanted Holly/Roger together despite the fact that he did rape her, faked his death so she went to prison, then dragged her all over a different country.  

 

9 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

The fact I never understood was that fans wanted Holly/Roger together despite the fact that he did rape her, faked his death so she went to prison, then dragged her all over a different country.  

Don't forget, he was also going to kidnap her child.

The woman falling in love with her rapist trope was unfortunately extremely common on soaps back then. AT LEAST GL never tried to turn Roger into a hero or make Holly's feelings for him seem like a good thing. Yes, the "explanation" for the rape undermined the history of the relationship. That was bad and no way would I defend that.

But Holly was obsessed with Roger since she was a teenager; clearly she had issues that were never dealt with, so her inability to totally sever the relationship was not that unbelievable. 

More importantly, they never gave into the obvious wish of many fans to make them a star-crossed romance. And good for them.

It's a very low bar, but it's way better than how many other soaps would have handled it.

Edited August 26Aug 26 by DeeVee

On 8/24/2025 at 12:39 PM, kalbir said:

@alwaysAMC You're getting close to Annie overdose in Fall 1997. That was one of the episodes on Cynthia Watros Emmy reel.

I just got to it and what a great episode!  Watros really did a great job.

17 hours ago, SadPim8696 said:

Hmm, I'm sure I remember Hart talking about Roger asking him if Matt and Dinah were together, and Hart saying he had just said yes to blow Roger off.  I had also been thinking that Matt accused Roger of threatening Vanessa to stop her from revealing herself, and Roger had retorted it was because she was upset about Matt/Dinah, but now I'm realizing that conversation was between Matt and Michael, not Roger.

Ahh could be, I must have forgotten that little detail.   

15 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

 

The fact I never understood was that fans wanted Holly/Roger together despite the fact that he did rape her, faked his death so she went to prison, then dragged her all over a different country.  

 

I'm one of these fans.

As a teenager, I didn't know the details of their history when I first started watching the show. By the time I did, I was already invested in them getting together romantically.

As an adult, I understand how wrong-headed my thinking is as I certainly would never support such a toxic and violent pairing in real life. 

However, I will admit that even once I knew their history, I still rooted for them. I think the vulnerability that Roger showed in certain scenes with Holly really got to me. It really humanized him. Also, the chemistry shared by the actors was just so captivating. I always remember being riveted by any scenes Michael Zaslow and Maureen Garrett shared together.

Now that I'm older, I can admit that the characters never should have been romantically paired again as they were in 1994, but I do still think they should have remained in each other's orbit. 

The push and pull away and toward each other was fascinating to watch. I imagine the writers could have continued to just play on that, but perhaps that would have gotten tiresome for the audience after several years. I certainly missed it when they stopped throwing the characters together in part of 1995 and 1997, and nearly all of 1996. To me, that was a big mistake. 

Annette

Edited August 26Aug 26 by GL Oldtimer

I'm liking the recent discussion about Holly, but I am not yet satisfied.  It appears that Holly throws a lot of us for a loop.  Me included.  (Which means that "Holly" was actually very well written in general, given that she was always intended to be a neurotic.  A very unusual character in soap-land).   

Here's a question that I don't know how to answer myself.

Had she had a real opportunity, would Vanessa ever purposely befriend Holly?  Why or why not?  What qualities does Holly possess that would appeal to someone like Vanessa?

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

53 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Had she had a real opportunity, would Vanessa ever purposely befriend Holly?  Why or why not?  What qualities does Holly possess that would appeal to someone like Vanessa?

 

 

Interesting question. I think so as they were both very intelligent women. I think that perhaps that could have helped bond them. 

And another question to address "Holly":

Why was Roger fascinated by Holly?  Roger's sexual attraction to Holly was both obvious and understandable...was that the sole source of his fascination, or was it some other tangible or intangible?  

After all, Holly was hardly the only enticing seductress in town.

 

It was wrong to root for Roger/Holly because of their past yet it was so right to root them. There were always hints of something brewing between them. MG herself said that she and MZ connected right away as actors and clearly the writers and the audience saw that connection as well. 

Roger/Holly were once described as the anti-supercouple and that description fits them perfectly.

I don't know if this was posted here before but SOD had Roger/Holly as Most Intriguing Couple in the Best of 1989 issue.

 

4 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

I'm liking the recent discussion about Holly, but I am not yet satisfied.  It appears that Holly throws a lot of us for a loop.  Me included.  (Which means that "Holly" was actually very well written in general, given that she was always intended to be a neurotic.  A very unusual character in soap-land).   

Here's a question that I don't know how to answer myself.

Had she had a real opportunity, would Vanessa ever purposely befriend Holly?  Why or why not?  What qualities does Holly possess that would appeal to someone like Vanessa?

 

If you're speaking in the strictest sense, and asking if Van would make the first move to form a friendship...probably not. Van was a little too reserved to ask for help or offer her assistance out of the blue. 

If you're just asking if Van would've been Holly's friend, the answer's yes. In fact, they had started to be friendly when Holly encouraged Van to pursue the charges against Jack Kiley when Van was ready to give up. Holly then put a crimp in it when she outted Ross and Blake's affair. Van didn't approve of hurting either Ross or Blake that way.

They were both very upfront and direct women. And business women in fields dominated by men. You could even argue they fell for self-destructive men.