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Guiding Light Discussion Thread

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I've been following the thread for the past few weeks, but I didn't respond so I'll just post my random responses.

Gus' messy paternity was never a favorite story of mine even when it was being written by Taggart and Culliton. The original Gus / Selina / Miguel story was under Labine , I believe, or at least I think Labine set the story in motion. I thought it was Lucky Gold who killed that story with the insistence that Gus couldn't have been adopted and was the Augusts biological child. Then, Taggart and Gold revisited it when they were building a Gus / Harley vs. Phillip thread that, as I recall, started with Harley wanting custody of Zach. I seem to recall Phillip having Harley arrested for trying to take Zach from the Spaulding mansion.

The Journal was mentioned as late as 2005. In May, there was a thread building around a Spaulding takeover launched by Josh Lewis and Roger Thorpe's children, Sebastian Hulce and Blake Marler. I don't remember what the impetus for the story was, but I felt like Sebastian was trying to avenge Roger or continue his legacy. At the same time, Alan and Holly had spent some time together as Alan was interested in purchasing the Journal. Holly ends up selling him part of the Journal or all of it in exchange for shares in Spaulding Enterprises. Blake has a conniption fit because it was somehow going to disrupt their plans. This was all scrapped with the budget crunch and Sebastian was shipped off and Maureen Garrett stopped appearing. I felt like the show was going to try a Holly / Alan pairing.

In terms of gothic storytelling in 2000s, I do think the dreaded Maryanne Carrouthers storyline from 2003-2004 would also fall into the catefory. The atmosphere in that was very well done. Very moody and haunting. I thought the climax was decent at the house of mirrors, but there wasn't a whole lot happening between the reveals.

I don't hate Conboy and Weston as much as others do. I thought Ben becoming an escort made sense with who the character had been with Bomer in the part. He had made that sex bet regarding Marah and was pretty worried about money all the time. I could see Ben turning to sex work. I didn't love how Ben's sexual abuse was treated like a post script, but I wasn't as mortified as others. I felt a lot of the online reaction was a bit insane like saying there was no one Ben could have been molested because Fletcher would have known which was more degrading, in my opinion, than Ben actually being abused.

I don't think Regina / Sister Lucia was used appropriately. She wasn't just Gus' mother, but she had also been Phillip's (retcon) nanny. If you are looking to do a longer Phillip vs. Gus narrative, this was something that should have been considered. Though, I didn't really have much use for Gus in general, to be quite honest. Gus and Harley were fine as a B-couple, but didn't work in the A-couple role for me.

Looking back at the Dobsons, there were references to a woman in black at the end of the tenure. I think people have speculated this would have been Amanda's mother. I wonder if they recycled any of this for Santa Barbara with Sophia Capwell. Who was the writer that proposed the initial Janice Stafford storyline? Was it Doug Marland? I would be curious if Janice (or some iteration) wasn't the original intended mother of Amanda. The Dobsons had Sophia "die" in a boating accident. It could be coincidence, or just another reference reference to A Place in the Sun.

It's interesting hearing that they didn't want a strong headwriter after Marland and that was, in part, what led to money issues with Pat Falken Smith and her quick departure. If available, I imagine Smith would have been better suited to continue after the Dobsons rather than Marland. Stylistically, the Dobsons and Falken Smith seem more psycho-sexual in their writing than Dobson while having their own flourishes.

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9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Variety review of first TV episode.

GUIDING LIGHT With Jone allison, Herb Nelson,Susan Douglas, Lyle Sudrow,Charita Bauer ; Producer: Dave Lesan Director: Ted Corday Writer: Irna Phillips 15 Mins.; Mon.-thru-Fri,, 2:30 p.m. PROCTER & GAMBLE CBS-TV, from N. Y. (Compton)

One of the longest-run radio soap operas, “Guiding Light” has been duplicated for TV by Procter & Gamble as the first AM daytime |serial to get the combined spread.

Show preemed on CBS-TV Monday (30) with the same writer, Irna Phillips and looked as though it will achieve the same mid-high ratings it’s obtained on radio. Fact that the video version is to follow the same basic story line as its AM sister, however, indicates that it won’t pick up many viewers from the radio side. Preem had no lead-in to indicate that it was a first, merely picking up the yarn as though viewers had seen a preceding stanza last Friday. Initialer had Joe Roberts separated from his wife, Meta, who’s having nightmares over fear of, how their daughter, Kathy, will fare in Joe’s hands. Kathy, in turn, is giving Joe trouble by wishing to move into her own apartment and substitute college for a career. Sounded rather schmaltzy, but the ground work has been laid for succeeding stanzas, which, after all, is and always has been the format for these soapers.

Jone Allison and Herb Nelson, doubling from the radio version, registered capably as Meta and Joe, while Susan Douglas made for an attractive and personable Kathy. Lyle Sudrow and Charita Bauer play Meta’s brother and sister-in- law, respectively. While it’s difficult to judge the production credits on the basis of a single installment, the two sets used on the initialer, plus camera work and other mountings, reflected careful planning on the part of producer Dave Lesan and director Ted Corday. P&G is sponsoring “Guiding Light” as a permanent replacement for ‘First 100 Years,” which was TV’s first soap opera. Compton agency handles this one for Crisco and Ivory, while Benton & Bowles had “Years” for Tide.

Thank you for that, Paul.

  • Member
12 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Variety review of first TV episode.

GUIDING LIGHT With Jone allison, Herb Nelson,Susan Douglas, Lyle Sudrow,Charita Bauer ; Producer: Dave Lesan Director: Ted Corday Writer: Irna Phillips 15 Mins.; Mon.-thru-Fri,, 2:30 p.m. PROCTER & GAMBLE CBS-TV, from N. Y. (Compton)

One of the longest-run radio soap operas, “Guiding Light” has been duplicated for TV by Procter & Gamble as the first AM daytime |serial to get the combined spread.

Show preemed on CBS-TV Monday (30) with the same writer, Irna Phillips and looked as though it will achieve the same mid-high ratings it’s obtained on radio. Fact that the video version is to follow the same basic story line as its AM sister, however, indicates that it won’t pick up many viewers from the radio side. Preem had no lead-in to indicate that it was a first, merely picking up the yarn as though viewers had seen a preceding stanza last Friday. Initialer had Joe Roberts separated from his wife, Meta, who’s having nightmares over fear of, how their daughter, Kathy, will fare in Joe’s hands. Kathy, in turn, is giving Joe trouble by wishing to move into her own apartment and substitute college for a career. Sounded rather schmaltzy, but the ground work has been laid for succeeding stanzas, which, after all, is and always has been the format for these soapers.

Jone Allison and Herb Nelson, doubling from the radio version, registered capably as Meta and Joe, while Susan Douglas made for an attractive and personable Kathy. Lyle Sudrow and Charita Bauer play Meta’s brother and sister-in- law, respectively. While it’s difficult to judge the production credits on the basis of a single installment, the two sets used on the initialer, plus camera work and other mountings, reflected careful planning on the part of producer Dave Lesan and director Ted Corday. P&G is sponsoring “Guiding Light” as a permanent replacement for ‘First 100 Years,” which was TV’s first soap opera. Compton agency handles this one for Crisco and Ivory, while Benton & Bowles had “Years” for Tide.

Am I the only one thinking it was strange the reviewer thought it would/should be two different shows?

Edited by P.J.

  • Member
16 hours ago, DeeVee said:

I get the feeling from Mart's interview that he was a bit of a troublemaker and that's what they didn't like about him, so this does not sound unbelievable to me.

It would also seem that if Marland got his way on this issue, it would make sense he would be surprised and angry when he was told Elliot was being fired. Enough that he would leave.

A link to a press article regarding Hulswit's firing from earlier in this very thread:

@vetsoapfan, I believe, recalled how Marland described Hulswit as a "dodo". Oddly enough, I never read that Hulswit was difficult to work with. The same apparently could not be said about my avatar, Don Stewart...

Edited by zanereed

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1 hour ago, P.J. said:

Am I the only one thinking it was strange the reviewer thought it would/should be two different shows?

Well, there was precedence for shows starting over when they started their TV version. One Man's Family, for example, continued the radio show as normal when the TV version started but the TV version started the storyline from the beginning. I don't know if that's what the writer was thinking, however.

  • Member
15 hours ago, P.J. said:

Stolen by Brandon and raised to avenge Alan's takeover of the company. Works as well as a dayplayer nun, or whack history where Josh/Billy/Ed/Buzz and Alan all went to a carnival in Springfield.

I would have loved the "real" Spaulding male heir to show up..but it would have to be someone who could act and phyically GA's size to look like a real threat. DAM would have been great in that role..but I hated the island so.

I don't know how they would explain the baby surviving, but it probably would be a nurse stole "another" dead baby and replaced the Spaulding heir...of course the nurse would have been Brandon's lover..they guy got around.

  • Member
1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

I would have loved the "real" Spaulding male heir to show up..but it would have to be someone who could act and phyically GA's size to look like a real threat. DAM would have been great in that role..but I hated the island so.

I don't know how they would explain the baby surviving, but it probably would be a nurse stole "another" dead baby and replaced the Spaulding heir...of course the nurse would have been Brandon's lover..they guy got around.

For some reason I can picture Michael E. Knight or maybe Stephen Nichols playing the real heir. It would need Elizabeth back to make it all come together preferably with Lezlie Dalton playing her.

  • Member
15 minutes ago, SoapDope78 said:

It would need Elizabeth back to make it all come together preferably with Lezlie Dalton playing her.

Now you have me wondering about a suitable recast if she couldn't or wouldn't.

  • Member
41 minutes ago, SoapDope78 said:

For some reason I can picture Michael E. Knight or maybe Stephen Nichols playing the real heir. It would need Elizabeth back to make it all come together preferably with Lezlie Dalton playing her.

Stephen Nichols could have been great, although I might have said the same about him on Y&R...

  • Member
7 hours ago, dc11786 said:

I don't think Regina / Sister Lucia was used appropriately. She wasn't just Gus' mother, but she had also been Phillip's (retcon) nanny. If you are looking to do a longer Phillip vs. Gus narrative, this was something that should have been considered. Though, I didn't really have much use for Gus in general, to be quite honest. Gus and Harley were fine as a B-couple, but didn't work in the A-couple role for me.

Phillip must have had a bunch of nannies in the years before the Spauldings arrived in Springfield. And Elizabeth said many times that Alan was never faithful to her. So it's not the WORST retcon on that level.

Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but I think Alex was the one who knew at the time that Alan had fathered this child and kept it a secret from him because she thought Alan was a bad father.

Now THAT'S a retcon. Because they were estranged for years before Alex returned to Springfield. She came back determined to get revenge because she blamed Alan for helping Brandon take HER son away. (Now, if someone had remembered that detail, and she had done it in revenge for that, it would have made more sense.). Also, Alan was not a bad father, he geniunely loved Phillip, even Elizabeth admitted that.

I guess it's possible they bumped into each other in Europe at some point but as far as I can remember, I don't recall her talking as if she knew Alan's first three wives. (If she did, I bet she would have had a lot to say about them, LOL).

Anyway, the whole thing was stupid and ended up being pointless because they killed Gus off.

7 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Who was the writer that proposed the initial Janice Stafford storyline? Was it Doug Marland? I would be curious if Janice (or some iteration) wasn't the original intended mother of Amanda.

I suppose it's possible he could have still been following the Dobsons story bible, but the Staffords were never mentioned until Marland took over the show. I think he wasn't drawing from the Dobsons projections, because the vibe of the story he came up with didn't seem to fit where the Dobsons were going with it.

The only reference to Amanda's mother by the Dobsons that I can recall was the heavily veiled woman who showed up at Brandon's funeral. All they had revealed was that Brandon gave his ex-lover Lucille Alan's baby to raise. Brandon supposedly whispered the name of Amanda's mother to Lucille just before he "died."

Marland wrote some flashbacks later on--I think there was a scene where you hear Brandon tell Lucille the name Jane Marie Stafford. There was also a flashback scene between Jennifer and her husband where she was dressed in the veiled hat and he's giving her grief because she went to Brandon's funeral. But the character of Jennifer was NOTHING like I expected after that mysterious woman showed up.

I'm guessing the two sisters with one drowning was all Marland. IMO, he should have had the one sister who Alan was engaged to be Amanda's mother and have Brandon simply did not want Alan to marry her because he thought the Staffords weren't good enough. THEN I could believe that Alan had been tormented for years by the memory because he loved her enough to want to marry her at one point. Plus there wouldn't be the additional creepiness of him committing statutory rape. The whole thing about the drowning came to nothing except the "crazy Uncle Chet" bit that was not exactly thrilling.

Again, it's obvious Marland wasn't that into this storyline. If he hadn't come up with the idea to make Alan's babymama Morgan's mother, I doubt he would have given it even that much attention.

3 hours ago, zanereed said:

A link to a press article regarding Hulswit's firing from earlier in this very thread:

Yowza. So this must be the article that prompted Potter to come out and refute the rumors about mass cast changes, etc.

Mart predicting the Bauers would be virtually eliminated eventually did come true. "The Springfield Slaughter" did happen, but it was over a year off and under a different EP and HWs. One strange thing they claim would happen was that Ben would force himself on Amanda, leave town feeling guilty, and then return as a different actor. They never recast the character and I do not remember it even being implied that he forced himself on Amanda, something I just can't imagine Ben doing, especially while she was in the midst of a mental breakdown. So I don't know where that came from. Maybe they thought better of it and changed their minds.

Thanks for sharing that again @zanereed

Edited by DeeVee

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1 hour ago, SoapDope78 said:

For some reason I can picture Michael E. Knight or maybe Stephen Nichols playing the real heir. It would need Elizabeth back to make it all come together preferably with Lezlie Dalton playing her.

Someone had suggested that Joan Collins should have played Elizabeth...though they would have to explain her new found confidence...and they could have given her something meaty and good to do.

  • Member
1 hour ago, Stevel said:

Now you have me wondering about a suitable recast if she couldn't or wouldn't.

She would have to be soft spoken, but tough when she needed to be. One person who springs to mind and she is totally the opposite in looks of Dalton but has that quiet presence is Victoria Mallory (Leslie # 2 on Y&R).

  • Member
18 hours ago, SoapDope78 said:

I'm surprised at some point they didn't rewrite history and say the baby Alan had with Elizabeth had not died and was stolen. Then boom the now grown kid shows up in Springfield.

Elizabeth's doctor was corrupt and needed money. I could see him getting in touch with Brandon and the two of them cooking this up. He would end up double-dipping--getting paid to lie that the baby was going to be born dead so Brandon could take it, and getting paid by Alan to swap the "dead" baby with Phillip. Brandon was really into kidnapping his grandchildren, so, yeah, I would buy that.

Here's an idea! Elizabeth finds out about her real baby being alive and THAT'S why she takes off to Europe and practically disappears. Because she doesn't want Alan to get his mitts on the kid.

Oooh, yeah, who would play a more mature Elizabeth? I have to think about that.

17 hours ago, Spoon said:

urban legend has that they wanted to make Jeffrey Ed's son. Which would've made Ava and Colin Bauers as well. Further cementing him into the show's DNA.

Ugh.

Edited by DeeVee

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23 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Someone had suggested that Joan Collins should have played Elizabeth...though they would have to explain her new found confidence...

Another suggestion: Susan Sullivan.

Basically, you could've said that, in the years away from Springfield (and from Alan), Elizabeth re-discovered her passion for photography and became a fashion photographer like Annie Leibovitz or Richard Avedon.

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ROCKLAND COUNTY, N.Y. THURSDAY, JUNE 10, 1982

Soap battling 'General' By MICHAEL KUCHWARA

NEW YORK (AP) - Top-ranked “General Hospital,” keeps “The Guiding Light” trying harder in the battle for more and younger day time viewers. The CBS soap opera has gone in for elaborately staged fantasy sequences, more location shooting and a new eye-catching montage for the show’s opening credits in an effort to catch ABC’s “General Hospital,” which it faces in most television markets. The keenness of competition has paid off for “Light,” at least as far as the National Daytime Emmy Awards are concerned. It’s the only CBS nominee for the season’s outstanding daytime dramatic series. The other three Emmy nominees for best series — “Ryan’s Hope," “All My Children,” and “General Hospital” — are all on ABC The winner will be announced Friday at ceremonies that will be broadcast nationally by CBS, 3 p.m. EDT

Leading “Light's” quest for higher ratings is the show’s executive producer, Allen M. Potter, a 28-year veteran of the soap operas wars, whose credits include such shows as “Brighter Day,” “As the World Turns” and “Another World.” He joined “The Guiding Light” six years ago. “In those days, there was a lot of talk about what went on, mostly over coffee cups," he said “The characters were middle-aged or beyond with usually a token young person ” Today, they are mostly younger — “the bulk of our show is now age 17 to middle 20s," says Potter “We made a massive change in the last year when we let some of the older people go.That was a sad parting but we feel that it's necessary in this day and age to tell the stories of the young because they are the ones who are giving the shows ratings these days.”

Not only are the characters younger but the locales are frequently becoming more exotic Potter spoke in a telephone interview from St. Croix, in the U.S. Virgin Islands where the show was taping a number of scenes, including underwater shots and a search for a golden temple that, according to the producer, “is going to reveal all kinds of things The episodes will air in July. The stories, written by head writer Douglas Marland, move faster, too. Marland created the enormously popular characters of Luke and Laura on “General Hospital." before joining "The Guiding Light ” On “Light,” he created a series of fantasy sequences for the willful Nola Reardon, who besides being the series’ "bad girl,” has a penchant for old movies and an active imagination Marland placed her in "Wuthering Heights,” "Dracula,” and even a Busby Berkeley style number with dancers on a battleship, reminiscent of “Anchors Aweigh.” Fortunately, Lisa Brown, who plays Nola Reardon, is an expert musical comedy performer, who later this summer will take over the ingenue lead in the Broadway musical, "42nd Street.”

The show’s introduction has also changed. For years, it began with a shot of a lighthouse and stately organ music. “After that we opened with a pattern of leaves and a slow, melodic kind of music," said Potter “We felt a need for a change. So we created our present opening. I think it's the sharpest thing we’ve got in daytime (drama) today.” It’s a montage, one- or two-second action shots from recent shows that are intercut rapidly on the screen to faster, uptempo music, he said. The scenes will be periodically updated Marland also built plot lines around a discotype nightclub called “Wired for Sound.” which allows for more music on the show and the appearance of people not usually seen on soap operas Recent performers at the club have included the punk rock group, the B-52s, and Jennifer Holliday who won a Tony Award this week for her performance in the Broadway musical “Dreamgirls.”

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