1 hour ago, GL95 said:

Once you see old Blake the Dinah situation is pretty funny because Dinah is really an amateur compared to OG Blake.

Second, Blake ultimately is too programmed to enjoy drama and chaos. I think to make her work with Ross as a stable couple they should have kept Blake in the corporate orbit where she could've done her scheming at work.

As chaotic as Dinah was, yeah, she's pretty amateurish in her schemes.

It was always a mistake to kick Blake out of a true business setting. If nothing else, she could've run WSPR and kept dabbling in the local power structure. At some point, GL abandoned the idea of the workplace backbiting (outside of anyone named Spaulding) as a conflict, which really meant that everyone just ran around mostly concerned about their love lives.

1 hour ago, Spoon said:

For some inexplicable reason I hated Ben Warren but loved HB as Craig on ATWT. It was exactly the same character. Maybe having Maura West and Cady McClain as primary scene partners.

It was the opposite for me. I enjoyed him as Ben and despised him as Craig. I don't think it helped that I was fond of Scott Bryce's Craig and tired of hearing about how bad things he'd done nearly 20 years earlier meant it was understandable for Craig to be a complete sociopath who had zero rapport with anyone. The mannerisms and "clever" ad-libs also felt more out of place to me on ATWT. It would have been like pairing Nancy Hughes with Luke Spencer. He also had a terrible dye job and cut through his run on ATWT.

Edited yesterday at 07:44 PM1 day by DRW50

4 minutes ago, P.J. said:

As chaotic as Dinah was, yeah, she's pretty amateurish in her schemes.

It was always a mistake to kick Blake out of a true business setting. If nothing else, she could've run WSPR and kept dabbling in the local power structure. At some point, GL abandoned the idea of the workplace backbiting (outside of anyone named Spaulding) as a conflict, which really meant that everyone just ran around mostly concerned about their love lives.

Rather than a PI, they could've had Blake be a crisis manager/fixer. It's interesting to me that making her into a PI even had a lot of natural connection to her being in some sort of business with Ross, which I think actually would have helped them as a couple since Ross is a bit more pliable with the morals when it comes to lawyering. I hated that they made it like a cute little side thing for her to try being a PI when she used to be hyper competent and has a lot more natural PI/business traits than Frank. (There was this run circa 1992 or so where Frank would take a job then someone he is close was the person he found so he had to bow out-I swear he only successfully got paid when AM sent him on distraction missions to get him away from Eleni.)

Edited 23 hours ago23 hr by GL95

2 hours ago, GL95 said:

I initially had started watching when Ross/Blake were firmly together and Dinah was their main point of conflict, and watching the older episodes I think gives it a bit more context. Sherry Stringfield's Blake had a vulnerability and was seeking love (and would do anything for it whether it was her partner's or Roger's love) but also was a chaos agent who similar to her father always had a mixed agenda. Once you see old Blake the Dinah situation is pretty funny because Dinah is really an amateur compared to OG Blake.

I haven't watched Ben/Blake in awhile (I didn't love him and more remember Hunt Block as Craig on ATWT who I hated with the fire of a thousand suns) but I feel like two things are pretty constantly happening with Blake once she's with Ross. First, she will forever see Ross as too good for her and lives in terror of the day the other shoe will drop and I think has an inclination to make it a self-fulfilling prophesy. Second, Blake ultimately is too programmed to enjoy drama and chaos. I think to make her work with Ross as a stable couple they should have kept Blake in the corporate orbit where she could've done her scheming at work.

That's a really good observation and perspective. You and PJ also have something in common with your hatred of Craig on ATWT haha.

16 hours ago, DeeVee said:

You've pretty much described India's entire history on GL: besides being a spoiler in Phillip/Beth's romance, they didn't know what to do with her. I really like MKA, she had good chemistry with John Bolger and Chris Bernau (she never clicked that much with Grant, IMO). Sort of like what happens with the San Christohell bunch, or the music business people during Lujack's era, she stuck out like a sore thumb in SF. What was she even doing in that rinky-dink town? (Beyond making Alex's life miserable, that is).

India was a last minute creation, same as Roxie Shayne, by Pam Long because Kristi Farrell and Mary Kay Adams were so good in their audition for Beth's cousin that two roles were created.

Plus for recognizing the appeal of both actresses, but you could tell that both characters were created on the fly without a long term plan for either.

India worked much better coming in for a specific arc and leaving once that arc was over. Her 1990 return, which was for a few months, was quite effective and once the Phillip faking his death arc was over.. she left town after heart felt good byes to Phillip, shady good byes to Alex, and an awkward good bye with Beth (who hugged her despite India's resistance LOL).

Her 1998/1999 return didn't appear to have much planning involved.. and she eventually fades away again with little fan fare.

Her 2002 and 2005 visits were much better.

Roxie, on the other hand, had a nice pairing with Rick... but that weird story with Kurt and the Johnny cancer story did a disservice to Roxie.

22 minutes ago, GL95 said:

Rather than a PI, they could've had Blake be a crisis manager/fixer. It's interesting to me that making her into a PI even had a lot of natural connection to her being in some sort of business with Ross, which I think actually would have helped them as a couple since Ross is a bit more pliable with the morals when it comes to lawyering. I hated that they made it like a cute little side thing for her to try being a PI when she used to be hyper competent and has a lot more natural PI/business traits than Frank. (There was this run circa 1992 or so where Frank would take a job then someone he is close was the person he found so he had to bow out-I swear he only successfully got paid when AM sent him on distraction missions to get him away from Eleni.)

This is one of my biggest gripes about late-stage GL. TOO MANY COPS, TOO MANY COP-ADJACENT CHARACTERS. It wasn't Edge of Night or even GH, they never did mystery stories well, in fact, a lot of them flat-out SUCKED.

This also shows how much the overlong relationship with Ross ruined Blake. She was a business woman when she first came on, and she was pretty good at it. Why not have her go back to that? I grant you, she wouldn't have been welcomed at Spaulding, but they could have thought of some other business for her to get involved in. They could have even made that the story, how a woman who spent time raising a family had a hard time getting back into the business world. A lot viewers could have related. I think she started in PR at Spaulding, why not have her start a PR business?

Anything rather than another cop.

Edited 23 hours ago23 hr by DeeVee

I forgot about her 2005 appearance. Was that for [Spoiler's] funeral?

I wondered if John Conboy thought he was at the Edge of Night. Serial killers, crime stories centered around dayplayers. I think this was discussed before, but I don't think GL had any contract cops until Rusty in the mid 80s. If Tony stuck around, I would have him be a cop, or introduce Sean Reardon as a cop. It's a big, traditional Irish-American family, how did they not have a cop in it!

Re: Craig. When I started atwt in the 90s Craig seemed benign, I guess he was a scoundrel back in the day. I remember Scott Bryce came back and played a more Hunt block-tinged Craig. I thought he was pretty good in updating his portrayal. Goutman must not have cared for him as he replaced him with Jeffrey meek. Yuck. I eventually warmed up to Jon Lindstrom's Craig, but it took a bit of time.

I started watching random episodes on Youtube (I checked out the first Peapack episode and that was.....something), but got back to late June/early July 1993.

Due to Lewises not named Billy (who appears to be the only one who thinks Nick believing terrible things about Mindy because of Eve seems like something you don't come back from romantically) pushing them together, Nick and Mindy went on a date. Mindy still isn't fully ready to jump back in and tells Nick so when he shows her to the door, and he is displeased when she calls it a night. Mindy goes to take a shower as montage music plays and is fully nude in the shower when Nick decides to just enter her place uninvited and walk into the shower with her. Instead of getting hit upside the head SINCE EVE HAD JUST BROKEN IN TO HURT HER WEEKS BEFORE, Mindy pulls him into the shower and they make out in the shower then have sex.

Ed visits Eve at the psychiatric hospital again and says he's checking her out for dinner. She asks for how long and he says until 9 pm and she complains it's not long enough. He suggests they go to Clayton (without saying it would show she's clearly not sane again if she thinks going out in public in Springfield would be a good idea) but she says seeing new places would just be too upsetting so Ed relents and takes her to the country club. Of course Nick and Mindy are there as a couple and she runs into Mindy in the huge women's room lounge. Eve thanks Mindy for not pressing charges and that she really wants to thank her, and Mindy says it's really not necessary but Eve says no she feels she must in a crazy sounding voice. I find it very hard to believe the Lewis clan just shrugged off Eve's actions not only hurting Mindy but endangering Little Bill (inadvertently but still).

AM takes a meeting with Blake/Glen Taggart (I sort of love Glenn Taggart just randomly popping up as a board member through the years played by the same actor) about ad space for Taggart's company in the Journal. (Nick apparently was supposed to go but goes to swim with Mindy instead.) AM is very excited about it because the Journal needs cash, then a little of the Old Blake crops up and she says that for this to happen she also wants them to run paid for pro-Spaulding press releases. AM flat out refuses at first, then Taggart spills that Spaulding is bleeding money and AM's ears perk up. Blake convinces him to take the deal by suggesting he might as well take the money Roger/Jenna are freely spending if he wants Spaulding to be vulnerable and she says he didn't hear it from her. The seed is planted for AM to plot to find a way to get Spaulding back. Blake/AM have some flirty old flame banter that a JVD stand-in Ross eavesdrops on. When Ross does approach them AM pulls him aside and says he thinks there's vulnerabilities at Spaulding and wants to know if Ross is in once AM launches an actual plan-Ross is skeptical AM can do it but doesn't say no.

Jenna like every love interest of Roger's is beginning to suspect he's not over Holly. She fires him from Spaulding and Roger does a lot of smooth talking to try wiggle out of it. She tells him she's learned a lot (she's been getting tutored on Spaulding by Henry) and reminds him she is the one actually in charge. He says he's not in love with Holly but just is obsessed with making amends for the past-she sort of buys this and tells him that she thinks it's time for them to get married which will prove to Jenna he really is over Holly. Roger says no, it's not the time. He walks out of a board meeting and his promptly held at gunpoint by John Davis who is demanding his $10 million for taking the fall in the foundation embezzlement plot. Roger of course has nothing now after being ousted by Jenna.

Holly takes Michelle to a cabin deep in the mountains with a giant cliff that I did not think would be possible in driving distance of Springfield, but the topography of the Springfield region is forever a mystery. They have a nice dinner after a red herring where Michelle climbs onto the cliff under the house to pick flowers and Holly can't find her at first. Eventually Roger shows up wishing them a happy fourth of July (no Bauer BBQ this year because it's the first July 4th after Maureen died and Ed didn't have it in him) and uses Michelle to persuade Holly into setting off a very elaborate fireworks display. The entire time John Davis is in the area under the deck where Michelle had picked flowers earlier. After Michelle has gone to bed (who weirdly got the bedroom while Holly got the sofa bed but it did fit the plot needs haha) John Davis holds her at gunpoint while Roger is sleeping in the car where Holly told him he had to go. (I loved Holly telling Michelle that decorum does not require inviting someone to spend the night who shows up uninvited-excellent life advice especially on a soap.). Ed calls to check in and Holly manages to tip off that something is wrong without giving it away to John Davis.

Dylan announces his engagement to Julie at the country club after Hart tells Bridget he wants to go for a swim (knowing Julie/Dylan are going there for Dylan). Hart is incensed and Bridget is mad at him for using her. (Initially her plan was to stay in with Ed since it was his first post-Maureen 4th and Hart still was trying to talk her into taking him-Ed gave her the go ahead since he was planning to go the mountains). I am truly stunned when Mindy says something about Julie/Dylan dating for a year-it was a pretty monumentally uneventful year outside of her recent makeout session with Hart.

Billy buys Vanessa the house where Vanessa remained for the bulk of the rest of the show. She's initially not pleased he did it without her, but then is won over by the house itself and Billy's excitement about it. She admonishes him as only Vanessa can then looks mostly bemused as Billy tries to justify himself but she eventually lets him off the hook and it's cute.

37 minutes ago, GL95 said:

I started watching random episodes on Youtube (I checked out the first Peapack episode and that was.....something), but got back to late June/early July 1993.

Due to Lewises not named Billy (who appears to be the only one who thinks Nick believing terrible things about Mindy because of Eve seems like something you don't come back from romantically) pushing them together, Nick and Mindy went on a date. Mindy still isn't fully ready to jump back in and tells Nick so when he shows her to the door, and he is displeased when she calls it a night. Mindy goes to take a shower as montage music plays and is fully nude in the shower when Nick decides to just enter her place uninvited and walk into the shower with her. Instead of getting hit upside the head SINCE EVE HAD JUST BROKEN IN TO HURT HER WEEKS BEFORE, Mindy pulls him into the shower and they make out in the shower then have sex.

Ed visits Eve at the psychiatric hospital again and says he's checking her out for dinner. She asks for how long and he says until 9 pm and she complains it's not long enough. He suggests they go to Clayton (without saying it would show she's clearly not sane again if she thinks going out in public in Springfield would be a good idea) but she says seeing new places would just be too upsetting so Ed relents and takes her to the country club. Of course Nick and Mindy are there as a couple and she runs into Mindy in the huge women's room lounge. Eve thanks Mindy for not pressing charges and that she really wants to thank her, and Mindy says it's really not necessary but Eve says no she feels she must in a crazy sounding voice. I find it very hard to believe the Lewis clan just shrugged off Eve's actions not only hurting Mindy but endangering Little Bill (inadvertently but still).

AM takes a meeting with Blake/Glen Taggart (I sort of love Glenn Taggart just randomly popping up as a board member through the years played by the same actor) about ad space for Taggart's company in the Journal. (Nick apparently was supposed to go but goes to swim with Mindy instead.) AM is very excited about it because the Journal needs cash, then a little of the Old Blake crops up and she says that for this to happen she also wants them to run paid for pro-Spaulding press releases. AM flat out refuses at first, then Taggart spills that Spaulding is bleeding money and AM's ears perk up. Blake convinces him to take the deal by suggesting he might as well take the money Roger/Jenna are freely spending if he wants Spaulding to be vulnerable and she says he didn't hear it from her. The seed is planted for AM to plot to find a way to get Spaulding back. Blake/AM have some flirty old flame banter that a JVD stand-in Ross eavesdrops on. When Ross does approach them AM pulls him aside and says he thinks there's vulnerabilities at Spaulding and wants to know if Ross is in once AM launches an actual plan-Ross is skeptical AM can do it but doesn't say no.

Jenna like every love interest of Roger's is beginning to suspect he's not over Holly. She fires him from Spaulding and Roger does a lot of smooth talking to try wiggle out of it. She tells him she's learned a lot (she's been getting tutored on Spaulding by Henry) and reminds him she is the one actually in charge. He says he's not in love with Holly but just is obsessed with making amends for the past-she sort of buys this and tells him that she thinks it's time for them to get married which will prove to Jenna he really is over Holly. Roger says no, it's not the time. He walks out of a board meeting and his promptly held at gunpoint by John Davis who is demanding his $10 million for taking the fall in the foundation embezzlement plot. Roger of course has nothing now after being ousted by Jenna.

Holly takes Michelle to a cabin deep in the mountains with a giant cliff that I did not think would be possible in driving distance of Springfield, but the topography of the Springfield region is forever a mystery. They have a nice dinner after a red herring where Michelle climbs onto the cliff under the house to pick flowers and Holly can't find her at first. Eventually Roger shows up wishing them a happy fourth of July (no Bauer BBQ this year because it's the first July 4th after Maureen died and Ed didn't have it in him) and uses Michelle to persuade Holly into setting off a very elaborate fireworks display. The entire time John Davis is in the area under the deck where Michelle had picked flowers earlier. After Michelle has gone to bed (who weirdly got the bedroom while Holly got the sofa bed but it did fit the plot needs haha) John Davis holds her at gunpoint while Roger is sleeping in the car where Holly told him he had to go. (I loved Holly telling Michelle that decorum does not require inviting someone to spend the night who shows up uninvited-excellent life advice especially on a soap.). Ed calls to check in and Holly manages to tip off that something is wrong without giving it away to John Davis.

Dylan announces his engagement to Julie at the country club after Hart tells Bridget he wants to go for a swim (knowing Julie/Dylan are going there for Dylan). Hart is incensed and Bridget is mad at him for using her. (Initially her plan was to stay in with Ed since it was his first post-Maureen 4th and Hart still was trying to talk her into taking him-Ed gave her the go ahead since he was planning to go the mountains). I am truly stunned when Mindy says something about Julie/Dylan dating for a year-it was a pretty monumentally uneventful year outside of her recent makeout session with Hart.

Billy buys Vanessa the house where Vanessa remained for the bulk of the rest of the show. She's initially not pleased he did it without her, but then is won over by the house itself and Billy's excitement about it. She admonishes him as only Vanessa can then looks mostly bemused as Billy tries to justify himself but she eventually lets him off the hook and it's cute.

July 1993 is a solid month. I just did a rewatch of the second week of July....some very respectable and fairly thorough character development at that time between Roger/Holly and Ed/Michelle. No, I'm not going to give you any details.

Aside from those four, something rather significant happens.

49 minutes ago, GL95 said:

Billy buys Vanessa the house where Vanessa remained for the bulk of the rest of the show. She's initially not pleased he did it without her, but then is won over by the house itself and Billy's excitement about it. She admonishes him as only Vanessa can then looks mostly bemused as Billy tries to justify himself but she eventually lets him off the hook and it's cute.

As far as I can tell, that is the last scene between Maeve and Jordan for four years. It's so sad in retrospect. "I'm throwing my arms around you---ungrateful wretch that I am---and telling you I love you madly." Billy and Vanessa had just come home early from their honeymoon. Billy had also surprised Vanessa with a house after their first marriage.

1 hour ago, Spoon said:

I wondered if John Conboy thought he was at the Edge of Night. Serial killers, crime stories centered around dayplayers. I think this was discussed before, but I don't think GL had any contract cops until Rusty in the mid 80s. If Tony stuck around, I would have him be a cop, or introduce Sean Reardon as a cop. It's a big, traditional Irish-American family, how did they not have a cop in it!

Re: Craig. When I started atwt in the 90s Craig seemed benign, I guess he was a scoundrel back in the day. I remember Scott Bryce came back and played a more Hunt block-tinged Craig. I thought he was pretty good in updating his portrayal. Goutman must not have cared for him as he replaced him with Jeffrey meek. Yuck. I eventually warmed up to Jon Lindstrom's Craig, but it took a bit of time.

I can't find a contract player that was a cop either. Lt Wyatt was there for years, and there's a guy who's kind of hounding Lujack's every move for a while...but that's it. They're pretty random until Rusty and then Mallet. The Reardons also didn't have a priest/nun among their ranks. Then again, maybe that's where the mysterious 7th child was.

Other than thinking Jeff Meek came before Scott's return, I agree. Scott managed to make Craig sympathetic while he was set on inducing Meg's miscarriage of Paul's child. Quite a feat. I only begrudgingly accepted Lindstrom when it was clear his Craig was not going to be Teflon ala Block.

1993 was still a pretty good year in terms of writing, character development and pacing.

I remember Marj Dusay saying when she joined GL in the fall of 1993 that she was drawn to how good the writing was and that she noticed that the writing quality started declining shortly after she came on. I did notice her first weeks as Alex was well written and she was more subtle in her approach to the character.

Her acting went too OTT after spending three years playing Vanessa on AMC.. and it was almost too uncomfortable watching her go so OTT.. she rivaled SS as Carmen in terms of chewing the sets.

Her best work was as Myrna on Capital imho

@P.J. The scenes between Vanessa/Ross highlight why they never could get a relationship between the two right... starting at the 18 minute mark.

11 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

July 1993 is a solid month. I just did a rewatch of the second week of July....some very respectable and fairly thorough character development at that time between Roger/Holly and Ed/Michelle. No, I'm not going to give you any details.

Aside from those four, something rather significant happens.

I’ve actually really enjoyed much of 1993 especially once Buzz’s identity was revealed and Eve finally went fully crazy among other things they’d built up that dragged a bit to peak.

Having seen basically all of 1994–mid 1997 in a fairly recent viewing, I actually found a lot of of second half 1992 hard to watch. Not because it was bad, but things like Holly’s breakdown over Ross/Blake and the Frank/Eleni/AM triangle were things where I knew where the drama led and it was just a lot of misery all around for a stretch. I'm not sure I've seen anyone build a web of lies like AM did where they didn't have the whole house of cards come down at once a la Nadine with the Buzz reveal/Peter paternity all at once. They really slow bled it out.

With Marj I generally thought she was good up through the snake bite mess but that was when the writing was at perhaps its lowest point too. I also think Marj/RR sparring was just generally A LOT. That being said I do feel like when they were writing Alex as being vulnerable because she's feeling cast aside that I sympathized with her a lot more than at any point with RR's Alan, and Marj had some nice moments here and there of projecting actual warmth which softened her a bit. I feel like she did a decent job of projecting the sheer loneliness Alex felt sometimes but they just far too often had her on those monologues where she just sounds like a crazy shrew. The Amanda stuff really did her no favors.

Edited 20 hours ago20 hr by GL95

7 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

1993 was still a pretty good year in terms of writing, character development and pacing.

I remember Marj Dusay saying when she joined GL in the fall of 1993 that she was drawn to how good the writing was and that she noticed that the writing quality started declining shortly after she came on. I did notice her first weeks as Alex was well written and she was more subtle in her approach to the character.

Her acting went too OTT after spending three years playing Vanessa on AMC.. and it was almost too uncomfortable watching her go so OTT.. she rivaled SS as Carmen in terms of chewing the sets.

Her best work was as Myrna on Capital imho

@P.J. The scenes between Vanessa/Ross highlight why they never could get a relationship between the two right... starting at the 18 minute mark.

I actually think the writing doesn’t really completely fall off the cliff until Curlee leaves. Second half of 1994 is probably my least favorite stretch of what I’ve watched recently though 1996 gives it a run for its money. I can’t think of a single bright spot of second half 1994 off the top of my head-front half at least had the Peter custody battle.