brimike, I'm sorry but you're wrong. We don't know whose beliefs Mauceri felt this was against - hers or Carlotta's. The wording is that ambiguous. And frankly, even if it's claimed to be just Carlotta's, that is very suspect. Who would quit a long-running, beloved role over Carlotta not being homophobic?

I understand why you're saying that, Vee. I do. And you have no reason to believe me whatsoever. You're going off of the word of Daytime Confidential. I'm going off of people who work at the show. I know you have no reason to believe I'm any other schmoe who is full of crap when I say this. So you don't have to believe me. I just know what I what I was told, and I'm throwing it out there. Those who don't believe me, I totally get it. Hell, this is the Internet. You have no reason to believe I'm not some dumbass in the middle of nowhere pretending like I'm "in the know", And I hate all that "know-it-all" crap on message boards myself, so I never pull this whole "I have sources" line out. Ever. I am now. But I totally understand if people think I'm full of sh!t, and there's no point in me arguing that, because I can't really prove anything on a soap internet message board. I just felt I had to say somethign. And I did. I didn't say it about Engen. For very specific reasons. But I'm saying it about PM.

Edited June 28, 200916 yr by brimike

brimike, I'm sorry but you're wrong. We don't know whose beliefs Mauceri felt this was against - hers or Carlotta's. The wording is that ambiguous. And frankly, even if it's claimed to be just Carlotta's, that is very suspect. Who would quit a long-running, beloved role over Carlotta not being homophobic?

DeliaIrisFan, I am as shocked as you are given Mauceri's long background, but I'm not so cynical or paranoid to believe it is an ABCD conspiracy to replicate a homophobia controversy from another network. Because if OLTL or ABC actually tried to scapegoat an innocent actor as a bigot simply for the sake of PR, especially one as long-running as Mauceri with a history with many continuing actors, they would face not only actor revolt but possibly legal action.

And you are right, the people rushing to defend Engen and Mauceri(?)'s "principles" are always very transparent.

And BTW Steve the word is that initially Carlotta would be intolerant, then would've come to be accepting and progressive. PM objected to that. Whether it was simply a character thing or not is extremely suspect at best.

So it's okay for you to say you don't know and to justify calling her a homophobe, but we are wrong to say the wording is ambiguous and not call her a homophobe at this point.

You are right about one thing the wording can be deemed ambiguous and because it can be looked at both ways - just like I said the Engen stuff was too remember - then I'm sorry I am not going to judge anyone based on ambiguous writing and sources. That makes me no better than the people I have been running from over half my life. In fact it makes me just like them. And that is something I don't want to be.

Am Amello said I guess it is just easy for people to hate whehter they are gay, straight, curious, whoever - it is just easier to hate than not to.

That sounds like something straight out of the right wing. They do that all the time.

I understand why you're saying that, Vee. I do. And you have no reason to believe me whatsoever. You're going off of the word of Daytime Confidential. I'm going off of people who work at the show. I know you have no reason to believe I'm any other schmoe who is full of crap when I say this. So you don't have to believe me. I just know what I what I was told, and I'm throwing it out there. Those who don't believe me, I totally get it. Hell, this is the Internet. You have no reason to believe I'm not some dumbass in the middle of nowhere pretending like I'm "in the know", And I hate all that "know-it-all" crap on message boards myself, so I never pull this whole "I have sources" line out. Ever. I am now. But I totally understand if people think I'm full of sh!t, and there's no point in me arguing that, because I can't really prove anything on a soap internet message board. I just felt I had to say somethign. And I did. I didn't say it about Engen. For very specific reasons. But I'm saying it about PM.

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you telling me you know someone at the show who claims Mauceri quit simply because her character was not homophobic?

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I find it very hard to believe an actor would quit a long-running role simply because their character's stance towards gay characters softens from intolerant to tolerant.

Folks, listen to SteveFrame. It's not against PM's beliefs. It's against what she thinks Carlotta's beliefs would be.

That being said, I still disagree. Writers created Carlotta, and an actress added to that creation. If writers choose for Carlotta to be okay with homosexuality, she can be. There's nothing saying she shouldn't. Hell, if it's such a problem, I'm sure the writers would be more than happy to add in a line for PM that says "I've struggled with this vs. my faith for years, but I've decided that I still believe in my faith, but I accept all of man, just like Jesus did" or something along those lines, to make both parties happy. I think risking her job over this is a little bit ridiculous.

BUT having said that, nobody should label PM a homophobe. It's unfortunate this happened so soon after Engen, because considering how the web is, it'll all get scrunched together as one big homophobic daytime contingency. But I promise you, it's not.

But that is the problems with soaps these days - is the stuff they do to characters even we as fans know that character would not do.

It was like last week with Dorian getting drunk and losing control. Dorian would never do that. She would never allow that to happen. She has always been on top of things.

You sit there going WTF when these characters do this stuff.

It goes back to #5 and #6 on Marland's Rules:

5. Talk to everyone; writers and actors especially. There may be something in a character's history that will work beautifully for you, and who would know better than the actor who has been playing the role?

6. Don't change a core character. You can certainly give them edges they didn't have before, or give them a logical reason to change their behavior. But when the audience says, "He would never do that," then you have failed.

Actors do know their characters. Even Marland realized that. That is why when you watched Marland's soaps you have very very few of those situations.

It goes back to the plot writing that inhabits soaps today. They change characters to fit the plot and not build the story out of the character as it should be.

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you telling me you know someone at the show who claims Mauceri quit simply because her character was not homophobic?

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I find it very hard to believe an actor would quit a long-running role simply because their character's stance towards gay characters softens from intolerant to tolerant.

Why not George Reinholt put his whole career on the line at Another World for similar stuff.

He got mad because he didn't think Alice's recovery from her breakdown was handled right.

He fought with the writers over the fact that Steve had always been an only child and suddenly they invented a big family for him.

He ended up getting fired over it.

It is not out of the question for me to think an actor would go to bat for a character they love or something they feel would totally be out of character for their character.

But that is the problems with soaps these days - is the stuff they do to characters even we as fans know that character would not do.

Okaaaaaaay... I get what you're saying. And yes - when Holden decides he wants to sleep with Carly after everything he's put his cousin through, and when Dusty Donovan becomes a mobster, I am with you on this a THOUSAND PERCENT.

But to me, there's acting out of character, and then there are the times when REAL PEOPLE step out of themselves and do something desperate and drastic and out of character because that's what real people do. That's how I saw Dorian getting drunk... and honestly, that's how I see Carlotta and this. It's just my opinion, it's not right or wrong. But I don't think I'd raise holy hell if Carlotta admitted that even though she's a devout Catholic, she still accepts people of all races, sexual orientations, etc. Nothing about that makes me think Marland's rules are broken. Had Carlotta said things against about Billy Douglas, and THEN this happened, I would definitely criticize. But if the writers wanted to make Carlotta gay-friendly, that's not an addition to the character I find jarring. But I understand there are other opinions about there. Just wanted to explain why I felt the way I did. I still respect it if you think it breaks Marland's rules.

Why not George Reinholt put his whole career on the line at Another World for similar stuff.

He got mad because he didn't think Alice's recovery from her breakdown was handled right.

He fought with the writers over the fact that Steve had always been an only child and suddenly they invented a big family for him.

He ended up getting fired over it.

It is not out of the question for me to think an actor would go to bat for a character they love or something they feel would totally be out of character for their character.

Oh, Steve, would you take a breath? Do you really want to compare Patricia Mauceri to George Reinholt? Wouldn't it be more merciful to go back to calling her a homophobe?

If Patricia Mauceri claims to have wanted out over her character ending up NOT being a bigot in the end, that is one of the most bizarre explanations I have heard in a long time. Why risk losing such a beloved role over something so silly? Especially since Carlotta has dealt with gay characters before, IIRC, and raised Eli Traeger as her own despite the homophobia and ignorant "AIDS = gay" stigma related to AIDS/HIV during the 90s?

Frankly, if the "it's just THE CHARACTER" defense is what her camp puts out in the future, it casts a dark and suspicious pallor. I'd say that about any actor who claimed to exit a show during a gay storyline because their character could not remain a bigot. Go ahead and tell me I'm witch-hunting. Then ask yourself what you'd think if you worked on a show and out of nowhere, an actor came to you with that.

Edited June 28, 200916 yr by Vee

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you telling me you know someone at the show who claims Mauceri quit simply because her character was not homophobic?

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I find it very hard to believe an actor would quit a long-running role simply because their character's stance towards gay characters softens from intolerant to tolerant.

I'm just saying I've heard from a few people that the conversation escalated to the point where she was let go. I'm not defending PM or FV. I think they both probably had strong cases, and as in the ways in most office environments, it just reached the point of termination. I actually think they're BOTH wrong in this case, and cooler heads should have prevailed to make both happy with the outcome. I just heard that what started out as "I don't think Carlotta would do this" somehow became "We'll find a Carlotta who's okay with it".

Like I said, i think they both made bad calls - PM and FV. I just really wish this hadn't happened so soon after Engen. It all gets lumped together.

Anyway, who knows - maybe my sources are trying to save face. I'm not telling you to force you to believe me, I swear. Just throwing out what I heard into the mix, for whatever it's worth. But I'm not asking anyone to believe me on these words alone. I know better than that.

From what I am getting from Facebook Nelson is saying the scene is very short. I highly doubt from that it is going to be much depth to it at all.

He says people are really going to laugh and be very surprised when they see the scene.

That tells me this is going to be a plot point and that is it.

And I know people will say then WTF did she get mad about then. It's one thing to me if you change a character and explain why but to do it and not even explain why.

Oh, Steve, would you take a breath? Do you really want to compare Patricia Mauceri to George Reinholt? Wouldn't it be more merciful to go back to calling her a homophobe?

If Patricia Mauceri claims to have wanted out over her character ending up NOT being a bigot in the end, that is one of the most bizarre explanations I have heard in a long time. Why risk losing such a beloved role over something so silly? Especially since Carlotta has dealt with gay characters before, IIRC, and raised Eli Traeger as her own despite the homophobia and ignorant "AIDS = gay" stigma related to AIDS/HIV during the 90s?

Frankly, if the "it's just THE CHARACTER" defense is what her camp puts out in the future, it casts a dark and suspicious pallor. I'd say that about any actor who claimed to exit a show during a gay storyline because their character could not remain a bigot. Go ahead and tell me I'm witch-hunting. Then ask yourself what you'd think if you worked on a show and out of nowhere, an actor came to you with that.

Why the hell is it when someone brings something up you think they are trying to compare someone. I was citing damn examples. I was not saying Patricia Mauceri was like George Reinholt. You said you could hardly see why any actor would want to quit over something like that. I was simply saying why not when actors have put thier jobs at stake over simple stuff as a family member. I wasn't compairing any one or any situation.

As to the last part I would not expect you to believe anything her camp says at this point. You have made up your mind what is right and nothing will ever change that. No matter what she says at this point you made up your mind and whatever she says will be interpreted as saying something else to support your belief that she is a homophobe.

And as to your last I would look at the person's reputation and that we do not know. How do we not know that Mauceri has not expressed concerns about her character before. I cannot say what I would do or would not do until I was in the situation. If it was the first time the person ever said anytyhing what their character did or didn't do then I would be highly suspicious. But I don't know that with Mauceri so I will not say.

I for one can't get past the fact that she played in a gay low budget film - a film that was highly gay. And was a gay romantic comedy. It was marketed to a gay audience and had openly gay actors in it. I doubt a homophobe that would quit a show over something trivial would have anything to do with a movie like that. That makes me very suspicious of what some of you are trying to claim here.

DeliaIrisFan, I am as shocked as you are given Mauceri's long background, but I'm not so cynical or paranoid to believe it is an ABCD conspiracy to replicate a homophobia controversy from another network. Because if OLTL or ABC actually tried to scapegoat an innocent actor as a bigot simply for the sake of PR, especially one as long-running as Mauceri with a history with many continuing actors, they would face not only actor revolt but possibly legal action...

And BTW Steve the word is that initially Carlotta would be intolerant, then would've come to be accepting and progressive. PM objected to that. Whether it was simply a character thing or not is extremely suspect at best.

Well, I guess I am kind of cynical about this, but in my mind I wasn't thinking of anything as big as a conspiracy...I honestly didn't think this sequence would amount to enough airtime that this would really be a longterm replacement. I would think that the head writer of AMC blaming an actress for the failure of that show's same-sex story on the record in a national magazine could have more potential ramifications than some "setside source" anonymously telling tales out of school about PM on a website, and god knows that happened. But if the story is going to play out the way that you suggested, that means Carlotta is going to have an actual character arc - more so than she had when her business burnt down or when her son was kidnapped and wound up in a Colombian prison. That in and of itself is weird to me, and even if it were true about PM, I still find it hard to believe that she could be so vehemently homophobic now but in 15 years, nobody at this show had an inkling that this was not an actress to ask to take on a story such as this. I still do think that something is missing from this story, but I feel even less sure of what that is now, and it sounds like you know more than I do so I won't pretend otherwise. I won't say anymore about PM except that I still hope this isn't true. Sad to say, with racism and ageism being at least as prevalent as homophobia, I may not have to make a moral decision about whether or not to continue supporting her TV career anytime soon, so it's pointless for me to even speculate further.

Edited June 28, 200916 yr by DeliaIrisFan

Oh, Steve, would you take a breath? Do you really want to compare Patricia Mauceri to George Reinholt? Wouldn't it be more merciful to go back to calling her a homophobe?

This actually made me laugh out loud. Which is good, for such a tense thread.

Not saying I agree with Steve or Vee - just that this sentence made me chuckle.

Laughter is good.

Edited June 28, 200916 yr by brimike

Nelson now says on Facebook it is "one scene" she had a problem with. He says more details will be in the NR Monday. He says the scene will surprise folks. And he says he will make the movie thing make sense too.

Who knows?

All I know is I have gone from one group when I was a Christian that seemed full of hate into another group that now seems full of hate. I have seen more hate vehemently spewed out of the mouths of my gay brothers and sisters in the last few months than I ever did when I was faithfully going to church.

That saddens me.

I am not saying we need to accept homophobia, but where does all the hate come from and the willingness to believe the worst of people even when we don't have the facts. I expected that of my Church family at times but I never dreamed I would see my gay brothers and sisters do the same thing. Are we truly no better than them.

I could understand the hate if we had all the facts but when we don't what does that say about us.

Well anyway I have mostly lurked here for weeks. I think it is time to go back there. See you guys all on the flipside.

Well anyway I have mostly lurked here for weeks. I think it is time to go back there. See you guys all on the flipside.

Miss you already, Steve!

I have a hard time reconciling that even if PM thought that Carlotta wouldn't be gay-friendly, she would walk away from a paying job over it. I'd think she'd do what Erika Slezak has done time and time again when they give her something that she thinks contradicts with what Viki would do—just roll her eyes and do it anyway. Methinks that PM either does have something against homosexuality…or she was just tired of playing the role and used the "Carlotta wouldn't be okay with this" thing as an excuse to bolt. Either way, it's all pretty funny. I'm not a fan of the Carlotta character anyway, so it's all blasé to me.

Edited June 28, 200916 yr by ACEM